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On August 15 2012 21:15 TheWisp wrote:I think this trick works like this : if you are INSANE INSANE player, you can get a little bit advantage maybe 3 secs earlier putting down rax. which is definitely worthy as a former pro-gamer (not only programmer) i can tell you 
Is 7-8 seconds earlier a small advantage? Is having the first mule 7-8 seconds earlier a small advantage? If you can do it for long enough shit snowballs out of control. I think a 15 second advantage in build orders would be doable.
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On August 15 2012 18:00 PatouPower wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:46 Infernal_dream wrote:
It's another thing people will do (just like worker splitting) that honestly doesn't do shit. Yet everyone will fucking marvel when someone does it awesomely. Click all your probes send them to one patch, split them, it doesn't matter. you still get 50 minerals right when the first worker is done building. So tired of seeing retarded shit like this. And as stated earlier once you get more than one worker per patch it doesn't work either. They'll be waiting for the other probe to finish in the first place. The workers splitting isn't only to avoid the workers to split themselves up (even though only that is a valuable reason to do so), but it's also to set up your workers on the closest mineral patch on each side so that when the first workers on the far ones return cargo, you can stack them on the closest one. And I am sure you don't find stacking probes useless; even stacking them on the far patches is worth it because otherwise some workers will just "search" which patch to gather from. It's not like you have any other thing to do at this stage in the game, so why wouldn't you do it? The bonus minerals gathered can really help to speed things up, both in worker production and building structures. It's an almost no risk/low reward thing anyways (the same goes for the splitting). But I agree that the 24% trick is pretty much useless since it's a high risk/VERY low reward technique. If you misclick only 1 worker, you just lost all the minerals you gained before and more. Even if progamers didn't know this before, they won't start doing it either since stacking on the closest/farther mineral patches is way more valuable. I can see how it can be useful when you rally your nexus (instead of clicking directly on the patch, you do this trick) when you really have nothing else to do, but it's not really gonna change anything anyways. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 17:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i really hope this gets patched quickly like the last trick that increased mining speed. Why would you hope that? If people have enough APM to use on this trick to even make a slight difference, I believe they deserve to have their extra 5 minerals (which is pretty much the maximum amount of bonus minerals you can get before 10 supplies if you are hardcore about it and don't fuck up even once). There is nothing to be patched here. The previous trick was way more easy to pull off (too easy actually), more brainless and way more rewarding.
I calculated around 200 extra minerals at 3:30 if you constantly micro 6 workers!
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On August 15 2012 15:15 DarKcS wrote:
Wouldn't stacking close patches and focusing on keeping new workers from floating to far patches be a better use of the same APM?
Not nearly as much. I calculated that the first raxx could be put down around 7 seconds earlier and somebody play tested it and comfirmed it
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On August 15 2012 21:43 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 18:00 PatouPower wrote:On August 15 2012 13:46 Infernal_dream wrote:
It's another thing people will do (just like worker splitting) that honestly doesn't do shit. Yet everyone will fucking marvel when someone does it awesomely. Click all your probes send them to one patch, split them, it doesn't matter. you still get 50 minerals right when the first worker is done building. So tired of seeing retarded shit like this. And as stated earlier once you get more than one worker per patch it doesn't work either. They'll be waiting for the other probe to finish in the first place. The workers splitting isn't only to avoid the workers to split themselves up (even though only that is a valuable reason to do so), but it's also to set up your workers on the closest mineral patch on each side so that when the first workers on the far ones return cargo, you can stack them on the closest one. And I am sure you don't find stacking probes useless; even stacking them on the far patches is worth it because otherwise some workers will just "search" which patch to gather from. It's not like you have any other thing to do at this stage in the game, so why wouldn't you do it? The bonus minerals gathered can really help to speed things up, both in worker production and building structures. It's an almost no risk/low reward thing anyways (the same goes for the splitting). But I agree that the 24% trick is pretty much useless since it's a high risk/VERY low reward technique. If you misclick only 1 worker, you just lost all the minerals you gained before and more. Even if progamers didn't know this before, they won't start doing it either since stacking on the closest/farther mineral patches is way more valuable. I can see how it can be useful when you rally your nexus (instead of clicking directly on the patch, you do this trick) when you really have nothing else to do, but it's not really gonna change anything anyways. On August 15 2012 17:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i really hope this gets patched quickly like the last trick that increased mining speed. Why would you hope that? If people have enough APM to use on this trick to even make a slight difference, I believe they deserve to have their extra 5 minerals (which is pretty much the maximum amount of bonus minerals you can get before 10 supplies if you are hardcore about it and don't fuck up even once). There is nothing to be patched here. The previous trick was way more easy to pull off (too easy actually), more brainless and way more rewarding. I calculated around 200 extra minerals at 3:30 if you constantly micro 6 workers!
this is interesting.
i`ll make a auto mineral boost for my hack soon. by then i`ll know if it's theoritically possible.
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On August 15 2012 13:49 SKDN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:46 Infernal_dream wrote:
It's another thing people will do (just like worker splitting) that honestly doesn't do shit. Yet everyone will fucking marvel when someone does it awesomely. Click all your probes send them to one patch, split them, it doesn't matter. you still get 50 minerals right when the first worker is done building. So tired of seeing retarded shit like this. And as stated earlier once you get more than one worker per patch it doesn't work either. They'll be waiting for the other probe to finish in the first place. What do you mean wont do shit? I can imagine players with 400 APM managing can 3 rax with this instead or going 12cc instead of 14cc? We will just have to see the pros use this now
The benifit is big enough to put buildings down earlier, but it isn't actually big enough to sustain unit production. We can build this buildings a little earlier because it adds over time.
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there's another thing: patrolling to a point is unlike moving to a point, it does not involve decceleration at all.
perhaps you guys could find better tricks based on that.
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On August 15 2012 21:11 TheWisp wrote:
Hey stop arguing.
you guys want me make a auto mineral boost hack to show you how powerful this can be?
i can make it in 3 min.
FYI i am programmer and i made quite some wc3 and sc2 hacks.
The reason of not keeping it a secret is that i think it sucks as a hack feature...
It would actually be very interesting to see how much faster a bot can mine compared to standard auto-mine. That would settle all the 4-7-24% increase discussion.
edit : nvm, you said above that you will do it. Be sure to post the result here please !
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I wonder if some pro's were already using this secretly =)
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A question came into my mind:
I watched the video and you only apply the method when worker was going to gather minerals.
But afaik same principles applies also when reaching to CC.
What happens when you both micro the workers not only for mineral patches but also in return cargo phase?
Simply do the trick for minerals, when worker begin to return, just right click in front of CC and shift-rclick to CC and continue to shift clicking to mineral patches. It should double the effect in theory.
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What happens when you both micro the workers not only for mineral patches but also in return cargo phase?
simple, you need 2x APM.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
MacroMicro suddenly got much more interesting! 
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Honestly I can't wait to see how insane it will be in 1-2 years when we watch foreigner vs korean and the korean always has more money and is ahead in bos just because he has perfected this trick in practice. Stuff like this is so good for starcraft as a competition, lets just hope blizzard doesn't patch it out...
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Did anyone test it ingame? When I microed 2 workers out of the initial 6 I managed to get extra 10 minerals after 2 mins of mining, thats nowhere near 24%. Am I doing it wrong or is it just not as effective as it seems?
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On August 15 2012 22:24 Lorch wrote:
Honestly I can't wait to see how insane it will be in 1-2 years when we watch foreigner vs korean and the korean always has more money and is ahead in bos just because he has perfected this trick in practice. Stuff like this is so good for starcraft as a competition, lets just hope blizzard doesn't patch it out...
I dunno. I would rather that players have to micro their units to win rather then having better worker micro.
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On August 15 2012 21:43 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 18:00 PatouPower wrote:On August 15 2012 13:46 Infernal_dream wrote:
It's another thing people will do (just like worker splitting) that honestly doesn't do shit. Yet everyone will fucking marvel when someone does it awesomely. Click all your probes send them to one patch, split them, it doesn't matter. you still get 50 minerals right when the first worker is done building. So tired of seeing retarded shit like this. And as stated earlier once you get more than one worker per patch it doesn't work either. They'll be waiting for the other probe to finish in the first place. The workers splitting isn't only to avoid the workers to split themselves up (even though only that is a valuable reason to do so), but it's also to set up your workers on the closest mineral patch on each side so that when the first workers on the far ones return cargo, you can stack them on the closest one. And I am sure you don't find stacking probes useless; even stacking them on the far patches is worth it because otherwise some workers will just "search" which patch to gather from. It's not like you have any other thing to do at this stage in the game, so why wouldn't you do it? The bonus minerals gathered can really help to speed things up, both in worker production and building structures. It's an almost no risk/low reward thing anyways (the same goes for the splitting). But I agree that the 24% trick is pretty much useless since it's a high risk/VERY low reward technique. If you misclick only 1 worker, you just lost all the minerals you gained before and more. Even if progamers didn't know this before, they won't start doing it either since stacking on the closest/farther mineral patches is way more valuable. I can see how it can be useful when you rally your nexus (instead of clicking directly on the patch, you do this trick) when you really have nothing else to do, but it's not really gonna change anything anyways. On August 15 2012 17:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i really hope this gets patched quickly like the last trick that increased mining speed. Why would you hope that? If people have enough APM to use on this trick to even make a slight difference, I believe they deserve to have their extra 5 minerals (which is pretty much the maximum amount of bonus minerals you can get before 10 supplies if you are hardcore about it and don't fuck up even once). There is nothing to be patched here. The previous trick was way more easy to pull off (too easy actually), more brainless and way more rewarding. I calculated around 200 extra minerals at 3:30 if you constantly micro 6 workers!
You calculated 200 extra minerals at 0330 based on what? That would be 200/5=40 extra mineral trips or 40/6=6,7 extra trips per scv or 6.7/3.5=1.9 extra trips per scv per minute. A SCV on a far patch does about 9 trips per minute. I call BS on this. The guy that claimed that 24% increase already posted that it was BS and that he made an error. It's quite funny how many people take random numbers serious without thinking about them. 24% increase sure LOL. A mineral trip consists of mining and traveling. This trick makes the traveling a little bit faster. 24%, seriously, guys!
Edit:
A few more thoughts:
Using this trick only makes sense on far mineral patches, because on close ones you would destroy the pairing. To mine most effective you should:
1. pair workers on close patches without generating long waiting times. Maybe use this boost to sync them up first?
2. make sure that the pairs on close patches don't break up. There are a few close patches on several maps that are quite critical.
3. Always rally new workers to an unused patch or to a patch that syncs up with them. Sometimes it makes sense to pair up workers on long patches first to create empty patches for new workers.
4. mineral boost on far patch(es). But keep in mind, just one unintentional "cross-travel" of a new worker or a break up of a pair on close patches will hurt quite a lot compared to what you can gain through boosting. Mineral boosting does have the lowest priority.
In short: pair up on the close patches----avoid travel times----mineral boost if you have apm left.
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it is a cute little trick but the advantage is far apart from what some people are posting here. you cant start your rax 7-8 seconds earlier lol. stop posting nonsense like this or provide a proof in form of a replay(@thezanursic).
i can get up my rax at 1:34 just by stacking my worker on the close mineral patches(on a map like entombed with 4 close mineral patches); replay: http://drop.sc/239017
while there are free mineral patches left you cant do the mineral boost trick with the stacked worker because it messes up the stack and they go to the free patches.
stacking your worker on close mineral patches > minreal boost trick.
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what about queuing also the back trip to take the minerals to cc? you first queue to collect them at the patch sites, then you queue before dropping them to cc, should work the same way but double booster..
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On August 15 2012 21:44 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 15:15 DarKcS wrote:
Wouldn't stacking close patches and focusing on keeping new workers from floating to far patches be a better use of the same APM? Not nearly as much. I calculated that the first raxx could be put down around 7 seconds earlier and somebody play tested it and comfirmed it
Well 7 sec earlier that's a lot
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I wonder how far the usefulness of this goes. If you can accumulate enough extra minerals, I wonder if it's possible as Protoss to build your 12gateway without a slight probe delay.
This is neat, going to start practicing it.
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On August 15 2012 22:34 submarine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 21:43 thezanursic wrote:On August 15 2012 18:00 PatouPower wrote:On August 15 2012 13:46 Infernal_dream wrote:
It's another thing people will do (just like worker splitting) that honestly doesn't do shit. Yet everyone will fucking marvel when someone does it awesomely. Click all your probes send them to one patch, split them, it doesn't matter. you still get 50 minerals right when the first worker is done building. So tired of seeing retarded shit like this. And as stated earlier once you get more than one worker per patch it doesn't work either. They'll be waiting for the other probe to finish in the first place. The workers splitting isn't only to avoid the workers to split themselves up (even though only that is a valuable reason to do so), but it's also to set up your workers on the closest mineral patch on each side so that when the first workers on the far ones return cargo, you can stack them on the closest one. And I am sure you don't find stacking probes useless; even stacking them on the far patches is worth it because otherwise some workers will just "search" which patch to gather from. It's not like you have any other thing to do at this stage in the game, so why wouldn't you do it? The bonus minerals gathered can really help to speed things up, both in worker production and building structures. It's an almost no risk/low reward thing anyways (the same goes for the splitting). But I agree that the 24% trick is pretty much useless since it's a high risk/VERY low reward technique. If you misclick only 1 worker, you just lost all the minerals you gained before and more. Even if progamers didn't know this before, they won't start doing it either since stacking on the closest/farther mineral patches is way more valuable. I can see how it can be useful when you rally your nexus (instead of clicking directly on the patch, you do this trick) when you really have nothing else to do, but it's not really gonna change anything anyways. On August 15 2012 17:52 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i really hope this gets patched quickly like the last trick that increased mining speed. Why would you hope that? If people have enough APM to use on this trick to even make a slight difference, I believe they deserve to have their extra 5 minerals (which is pretty much the maximum amount of bonus minerals you can get before 10 supplies if you are hardcore about it and don't fuck up even once). There is nothing to be patched here. The previous trick was way more easy to pull off (too easy actually), more brainless and way more rewarding. I calculated around 200 extra minerals at 3:30 if you constantly micro 6 workers! You calculated 200 extra minerals at 0330 based on what? That would be 200/5=40 extra mineral trips or 40/6=6,7 extra trips per scv or 6.7/3.5=1.9 extra trips per scv per minute. A SCV on a far patch does about 9 trips per minute. I call BS on this. The guy that claimed that 24% increase already posted that it was BS and that he made an error. It's quite funny how many people take random numbers serious without thinking about them. 24% increase sure LOL. A mineral trip consists of mining and traveling. This trick makes the traveling a little bit faster. 24%, seriously, guys! Edit: A few more thoughts: Using this trick only makes sense on far mineral patches, because on close ones you would destroy the pairing. To mine most effective you should: 1. pair workers on close patches without generating long waiting times. Maybe use this boost to sync them up first? 2. make sure that the pairs on close patches don't break up. There are a few close patches on several maps that are quite critical. 3. Always rally new workers to an unused patch or to a patch that syncs up with them. Sometimes it makes sense to pair up workers on long patches first to create empty patches for new workers. 4. mineral boost on far patch(es). But keep in mind, just one unintentional "cross-travel" of a new worker or a break up of a pair on close patches will hurt quite a lot compared to what you can gain through boosting. Mineral boosting does have the lowest priority. In short: pair up on the close patches----avoid travel times----mineral boost if you have apm left.
yea, 24% is exagerated. THe original guy who actaully found this out 2 years ago (same technique) said it's 4%. This is good only til about the 1 min mark in the game. As most ppl don't have the APM to do this past the 1 min mark, worker scout, and keep their timings correct. Also probably can do this to only 2 or 3 workers in that first 1 min. I think it's worth it to get that pool/barracks/gateway earlier by couple seconds but after that you can't let your macro slip anymore as it'll hurt you more than couple extra minerals
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EPT
