• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:29
CET 16:29
KST 00:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0222LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)27Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)14
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Which units you wish saw more use in the game? StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1884 users

KeSPA, eSports Fed. agree on trade lock until Oct 2013 - P…

Forum Index > SC2 General
327 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 15 16 17 Next All
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
August 08 2012 05:56 GMT
#61
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.


There is no way jaedong makes as much money now as he did back when he was able to win a tournament, or was on a team that had sponsors.
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
a9arnn
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1537 Posts
August 08 2012 05:57 GMT
#62
On August 08 2012 14:55 Advantageous wrote:
holy crap? 2013?! so after HotS comes out? and does this mean M18M's trade would be the only trade thats valid?

His wasn't a trade, his military service ended and he wasn't on a team when LighT picked him up.
VOD finder guy for sc2ratings.com/ ! aka: ogndrahcir, a9azn2 | Go ZerO, Stork, Sea, and KawaiiRice :D | nesc2league.com/forum/index.php | youtube.com/watch?v=oaGtjWL5mZo
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 06:01:39
August 08 2012 05:57 GMT
#63
On August 08 2012 14:51 plasmidghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:50 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.

So Jaedong would essentially have 32 personal sponsors, Seems fitting.

Not really. He needs >50


IIRC

Flash ~$400,000 p.a

Jaedong ~$120,000 p.a

Bisu ~$200,000 p.a

That's just salary and excluding the actual trade price. KT and SKT also pay skilled veterans quite a lot even though they aren't in peak form. Bisu is still the highest paid in SKT even though its been years since his last individual tournament appearance, Oov got paid a huge sum of money for coaching, Nada was still being paid a lot even though he wasn't appearing on TV very much. This is a really good reason to stay on Proleague teams, you can be one of the highest paid players without winning a single tournament for years, you can also be old and bad and still get paid a lot, while GSL teams are picking up the scraps and relying on tournament winnings.

EG would need to sponsored by a company like Microsoft with millions of dollars of spare cash to burn to have that kind of money.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
August 08 2012 06:00 GMT
#64
That's so long :O So this means that they cannot acquire new players? or this just applies to trading between teams?
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
August 08 2012 06:01 GMT
#65
Hmm, let me know if I understand the thinking behind this:

- Kespa teams has a lot of money and sponsors. But their players are not that hot in sc2 just yet.
- GSL teams have less money, but the currently best sc2 players.

so with a free market:

- the kespa teams would buy the best sc2 players players from the GSL teams.
- The GSL teams lose their sponsors, as they don't have any good players any longer.
- the previous kespa players get demoted to B-team, or fired, and have to fight their way of from the bottom like everyone else.

So to protect the kespa players and the GSL teams, they do this lock until the GSL teams get better economy (DRONES ffs!!) and the kespa players can catch up in sc2 skill? Did I get that right?

Questions:
1) How will kespa teams keep their income? I guess the sponsors are leaving sc:bw now, and if the kespa players do not pick it up quick, they won't get more?
2) Transfers from kespa teams to GSL teams isn't really an issue then? They just blocked both ways to make it fair?

thanks.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
August 08 2012 06:01 GMT
#66
On August 08 2012 14:57 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:50 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.

So Jaedong would essentially have 32 personal sponsors, Seems fitting.

Not really. He needs >50


IIRC

Flash ~$400,000 p.a

Jaedong ~$120,000 p.a

Bisu ~$200,000 p.a

That's just salary and excluding the actual trade price. KT and SKT also pay skilled veterans quite a lot even though they aren't in peak form. Bisu is still the highest paid in SKT even though its been years since his last individual tournament appearance, Oov got paid a huge sum of money for coaching, Nada was still being paid a lot even though he wasn't appearing on TV very much. This is a really good reason to stay on Proleague teams, you can be one of the highest paid players without winning a single tournament for years, you can also be old and bad and still get paid a lot, while GSL teams are picking up the scraps and relying on tournament winnings.

I wonder if those values will change with everyone switching to SC2 now, i.e. some getting less, like Bisu, who hasn't won any match in SC2, I think.
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 08 2012 06:01 GMT
#67
On August 08 2012 14:56 hacklebeast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.


There is no way jaedong makes as much money now as he did back when he was able to win a tournament, or was on a team that had sponsors.
Don't forget T8 has a sponsor now - Undefeated.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
cooked
Profile Joined December 2010
China1238 Posts
August 08 2012 06:02 GMT
#68
Does anyone have any details on these Kespa progamer licenses? Are they essentially a contract? And if so, are there typical durations for these licenses? Are Kespa pros right now pretty much contracted to Kespa until October 2013?
Sikly
Profile Joined June 2011
United States413 Posts
August 08 2012 06:02 GMT
#69
Honestly, this seems like it would help the Federation more than KeSPA. I imagine KeSPA players will be caught up by early-mid next year. Most of them will probably be competing at a good level by June at the latest. This allows time for KeSPA to make SC2 more popular in Korea, and give times for teams like TSL to find bigger sponsors from that popularity, if it actually becomes more popular. Those type of sponsorship deals probably take more time to set up than player transfers. And if those sponsors think they can just sponsor a KeSPA organization and that KeSPA organization will buy out Federation players they may be more likely to do that. Obviously I'm working off of assumptions, but I think they are fair enough.

I still think it seems longer than it needs to be, but I suppose taking longer and not risking killing teams/organizations is probably better than jumping the gun just so cross pollination can happen.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 06:05:05
August 08 2012 06:03 GMT
#70
On August 08 2012 15:01 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:56 hacklebeast wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.


There is no way jaedong makes as much money now as he did back when he was able to win a tournament, or was on a team that had sponsors.
Don't forget T8 has a sponsor now - Undefeated.


Jaedong got ripped off while on Oz. For his success he was the most underpaid player by far. T8 even gave him a pay rise.


On August 08 2012 15:01 plasmidghost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:57 sluggaslamoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:51 plasmidghost wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:50 Zenbrez wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.

So Jaedong would essentially have 32 personal sponsors, Seems fitting.

Not really. He needs >50


IIRC

Flash ~$400,000 p.a

Jaedong ~$120,000 p.a

Bisu ~$200,000 p.a

That's just salary and excluding the actual trade price. KT and SKT also pay skilled veterans quite a lot even though they aren't in peak form. Bisu is still the highest paid in SKT even though its been years since his last individual tournament appearance, Oov got paid a huge sum of money for coaching, Nada was still being paid a lot even though he wasn't appearing on TV very much. This is a really good reason to stay on Proleague teams, you can be one of the highest paid players without winning a single tournament for years, you can also be old and bad and still get paid a lot, while GSL teams are picking up the scraps and relying on tournament winnings.

I wonder if those values will change with everyone switching to SC2 now, i.e. some getting less, like Bisu, who hasn't won any match in SC2, I think.


There may be a drop, but considering Nada was the highest paid progamer even just before he retired, I wouldn't be surprised if Bisu still got paid a lot more than the newbies.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
August 08 2012 06:06 GMT
#71
On August 08 2012 14:56 hacklebeast wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 14:48 Fionn wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:43 Lokerek wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:33 snafoo wrote:
On August 08 2012 14:31 figq wrote:
No EG.Flash vs Liquid`Jaedong anytime soon then.


Hint: they probably couldn't afford them anyway >.>


Flash maybe but EG.Jaedong doesn't seem too unreal.

EG loves hype and they excel at promoting their sponsors.

Just think how Jaedong is popular outside of Korea,
getting extra money from sponsors for that kind of exposure
shouldn't be too much of a problem.


If EG wanted Jaedong, they'd have to cut their entire team.

It would literally be Scoots and Jaedong.


There is no way jaedong makes as much money now as he did back when he was able to win a tournament, or was on a team that had sponsors.


nada was still making 250k/yr when he wasn't winning anything. JD prolly still has a sick contract.

rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
August 08 2012 06:07 GMT
#72
naniwa to kt. lol
MadNeSs
Profile Joined March 2007
Denmark1507 Posts
August 08 2012 06:08 GMT
#73
I think that a year sounds just fine, we all know that once Kespa takes over (and they will), everything is gonna be screwed up, and full of lame rules. That is what they're known for afterall.
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
August 08 2012 06:11 GMT
#74
seems reasonable, nice :D

feels a bit long but time will fly by again ;;
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
August 08 2012 06:13 GMT
#75
But players can still retire from KeSPA and join foreign teams, right ? I'm pretty sure that's what M18M just did.
ॐ
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
August 08 2012 06:14 GMT
#76
Now wait just a moment. Does the eSports Federation automatically include all teams in the GSTL? I remember that Slayers was the only major Korean team that wasn't part of the Federation, and I pretty sure that Liquid, EG, and Fnatic were not members before either. Are they members now?
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
kaokentake
Profile Joined July 2012
383 Posts
August 08 2012 06:15 GMT
#77
On August 08 2012 14:42 ShiroKaisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
"Meanwhile, a pro gamer license given by KeSPA will be distributed to current StarCraft 2 players. Any players previously qualified in GSL Code S and Code A can opt to apply for Progamer status, and once the required professionalism seminars are completed, a Progamer license for StarCraft 2 will be awarded to them."


IMO this is the biggest news. Now anyone, including foreigners, who's been in A or S can have a Progamer License - something previously insanely difficult to get!


its actually pointless

back in the bw days, if you were GOOD ENOUGH to win the OSL finals, then it didnt matter if you were a foreigner and it was "hard to get a progamer license" you could easily get one and compete. But no one was good enough.

the truth is people like to try and say the kespa progamer license was something "stopping foreigners from becoming fruitful in bw".... thats not true. foreigners just werent good enough.


now foreigners ARE good enough, so they are making this slight change. but make no mistake this essentially doesnt really mean anything because even if they kept the old system players good enough to compete with the best would easily get progamer licenses regardless.
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
August 08 2012 06:15 GMT
#78
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100255
relevance to this thread somewhat..it is interesting though. =D
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
August 08 2012 06:15 GMT
#79
Interesting. I do wish that team consolidation would happen quicker, but I understand why this will help both sides avoid nasty politics.
starception
Profile Joined August 2012
205 Posts
August 08 2012 06:16 GMT
#80
Is it possible for some rich company like Microsoft or apple or maybe even a Team Blizzard to step in and buy the best/most famous from GOM and kespa? Like a team with DRG MKP mc MVP Taeja NesTea flash Jaedong Bisu Soulkey etc?
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 15 16 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LiuLi Cup
11:00
2025 Grand Finals Playoffs
Maru vs SerralLIVE!
RotterdaM2844
ComeBackTV 1492
PiGStarcraft1153
IndyStarCraft 484
BRAT_OK 311
Rex277
3DClanTV 124
IntoTheiNu 51
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2844
PiGStarcraft1153
IndyStarCraft 484
BRAT_OK 311
Rex 277
MindelVK 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28726
Rain 3004
Flash 2443
Sea 2255
Stork 720
Soma 590
EffOrt 519
Mini 490
Shuttle 392
actioN 336
[ Show more ]
firebathero 274
Rush 191
ggaemo 171
Hyun 104
Last 100
Sharp 100
Backho 76
Bonyth 73
Movie 67
Sea.KH 54
sorry 48
Yoon 41
ToSsGirL 32
JYJ 26
sSak 26
JulyZerg 26
soO 22
IntoTheRainbow 22
HiyA 19
Rock 19
GoRush 14
Sacsri 13
Terrorterran 12
zelot 12
yabsab 11
Shine 10
Noble 8
SilentControl 7
ivOry 6
Dota 2
singsing3045
Gorgc2172
Dendi1710
XcaliburYe293
febbydoto22
Counter-Strike
fl0m4236
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King131
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor627
Liquid`Hasu251
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1556
B2W.Neo1195
Mlord343
crisheroes217
KnowMe137
Hui .109
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL37037
Other Games
EGCTV1041
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH183
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV500
League of Legends
• Nemesis5480
• Jankos2797
Upcoming Events
Ladder Legends
2h 31m
Replay Cast
8h 31m
Replay Cast
17h 31m
Wardi Open
20h 31m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 1h
OSC
1d 8h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 20h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-14
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.