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On August 10 2012 04:44 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:17 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 04:11 StarStruck wrote:On August 09 2012 14:04 Zennith wrote:
1: To those saying that that if a foreign team signed a Kespa player, GOM and Kespa would ban them from tournaments... guys, that would be fucking suicide. Lawsuits ahoy!
2: I promise you that EG could certainly afford Flash/JD whoever. Million dollar contracts? Hell fucking no.
3: This is basically collusion, and I really doubt it would be legal for organizations to do this, at least in the US. Think any major league sports in the US and Free Agency. Antitrust laws would make this really, really tenuous here. I don't know about Korean laws, of course. What in the blue hell are you talking about lmao. Uh, I'm saying that two organizations agreeing to restrict the rights of their players is (in the US) a violation of antitrust laws. I don't know about the Korean legal system, but all this does is essentially restrict the rights of the players who particpate in both GOM and KESPA. It hurts the players in favor of the larger organizations, which I'm pretty against on principle. Bring on real Free Agency please. Well guess what, this isn't the US and this isn't part of the major league sports. Also most people would agree this is beneficial, which it is. GOM teams need sponsors and KeSPA teams need to catch up in skill.
Oh, I'm well aware. Just because it isn't in the US doesn't mean it should be acceptable. Anything that restricts players from earning their real market value is bad for the sport, and that is exactly what this does.
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On August 10 2012 05:31 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:44 IcedBacon wrote:On August 10 2012 04:17 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 04:11 StarStruck wrote:On August 09 2012 14:04 Zennith wrote:
1: To those saying that that if a foreign team signed a Kespa player, GOM and Kespa would ban them from tournaments... guys, that would be fucking suicide. Lawsuits ahoy!
2: I promise you that EG could certainly afford Flash/JD whoever. Million dollar contracts? Hell fucking no.
3: This is basically collusion, and I really doubt it would be legal for organizations to do this, at least in the US. Think any major league sports in the US and Free Agency. Antitrust laws would make this really, really tenuous here. I don't know about Korean laws, of course. What in the blue hell are you talking about lmao. Uh, I'm saying that two organizations agreeing to restrict the rights of their players is (in the US) a violation of antitrust laws. I don't know about the Korean legal system, but all this does is essentially restrict the rights of the players who particpate in both GOM and KESPA. It hurts the players in favor of the larger organizations, which I'm pretty against on principle. Bring on real Free Agency please. Well guess what, this isn't the US and this isn't part of the major league sports. Also most people would agree this is beneficial, which it is. GOM teams need sponsors and KeSPA teams need to catch up in skill. Oh, I'm well aware. Just because it isn't in the US doesn't mean it should be acceptable. Anything that restricts players from earning their real market value is bad for the sport, and that is exactly what this does.
Your pretty much asking to kill KeSPA players and GOM teams. Think of it like cap limits that most professional teams currently have; they are their to prevent teams like the Yankee's from literally buying every best player in the world because they just don't have the cap room to do that. That effectively hurts every top player, because they could be making more if the Yankees could buy them all out, potentially at least. But, if we allowed it, it would kill the sport, because no one in the world would be able to compete with them.
You really need to think about what your saying. If you can't change your "principles" for the benefit of everyone(including the players) than...I don't really know what to say. I guess I can be thankful the Korean's realize that this will massively help everyone, and don't just blindly stick to "principles". Besides, the BW players have shown immense dedication to the game of starcraft, they deserve a legitimate opportunity to adjust to SC2.
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Hilariously, there is no salary cap in baseball. The Yankees very well could just buy everyone. I don't see how Free Agency hurts the players, as you say it will. All it does is reward skill - and top tier play should be the goal for every team and player.
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And if what you say IS true, that a Salary Cap is effectively accomplishing the same thing as this collusion, why not just institute that for SC2?
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Am I the only one who thinks KeSPA should just die with Brood War? They had their run, it was good, but questionable about a lot of things. GomTV has done everything right for the past 2-3 years, they have all the star power, the western world loves Gom. If these business that own KeSPA teams were smart, they would just move their teams to the SC2 league now that Brood War is done? I don't see the inherit draw KeSPA as an organization has in Korea. Its not like people who watch it don't know about GomTV. And it's not like TLBS + a few others have any auidience drawing power. It seems like better business for Samsung to just take their guys and put them in the Gom league.
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On August 10 2012 05:31 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:44 IcedBacon wrote:On August 10 2012 04:17 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 04:11 StarStruck wrote:On August 09 2012 14:04 Zennith wrote:
1: To those saying that that if a foreign team signed a Kespa player, GOM and Kespa would ban them from tournaments... guys, that would be fucking suicide. Lawsuits ahoy!
2: I promise you that EG could certainly afford Flash/JD whoever. Million dollar contracts? Hell fucking no.
3: This is basically collusion, and I really doubt it would be legal for organizations to do this, at least in the US. Think any major league sports in the US and Free Agency. Antitrust laws would make this really, really tenuous here. I don't know about Korean laws, of course. What in the blue hell are you talking about lmao. Uh, I'm saying that two organizations agreeing to restrict the rights of their players is (in the US) a violation of antitrust laws. I don't know about the Korean legal system, but all this does is essentially restrict the rights of the players who particpate in both GOM and KESPA. It hurts the players in favor of the larger organizations, which I'm pretty against on principle. Bring on real Free Agency please. Well guess what, this isn't the US and this isn't part of the major league sports. Also most people would agree this is beneficial, which it is. GOM teams need sponsors and KeSPA teams need to catch up in skill. Oh, I'm well aware. Just because it isn't in the US doesn't mean it should be acceptable. Anything that restricts players from earning their real market value is bad for the sport, and that is exactly what this does.
It doesn't necessarily. Not to mention every major sporting organization has trade restrictions to help promote competition.
Also this is nothing like the collusion, at least as defined in the U.S.
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On August 10 2012 05:31 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:44 IcedBacon wrote:On August 10 2012 04:17 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 04:11 StarStruck wrote:On August 09 2012 14:04 Zennith wrote:
1: To those saying that that if a foreign team signed a Kespa player, GOM and Kespa would ban them from tournaments... guys, that would be fucking suicide. Lawsuits ahoy!
2: I promise you that EG could certainly afford Flash/JD whoever. Million dollar contracts? Hell fucking no.
3: This is basically collusion, and I really doubt it would be legal for organizations to do this, at least in the US. Think any major league sports in the US and Free Agency. Antitrust laws would make this really, really tenuous here. I don't know about Korean laws, of course. What in the blue hell are you talking about lmao. Uh, I'm saying that two organizations agreeing to restrict the rights of their players is (in the US) a violation of antitrust laws. I don't know about the Korean legal system, but all this does is essentially restrict the rights of the players who particpate in both GOM and KESPA. It hurts the players in favor of the larger organizations, which I'm pretty against on principle. Bring on real Free Agency please. Well guess what, this isn't the US and this isn't part of the major league sports. Also most people would agree this is beneficial, which it is. GOM teams need sponsors and KeSPA teams need to catch up in skill. Oh, I'm well aware. Just because it isn't in the US doesn't mean it should be acceptable. Anything that restricts players from earning their real market value is bad for the sport, and that is exactly what this does.
You do realize that there is no such thing as Players Union in e-sports, right? There is nothing illegal about this.
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On August 10 2012 06:46 Zennith wrote:
Hilariously, there is no salary cap in baseball. The Yankees very well could just buy everyone. I don't see how Free Agency hurts the players, as you say it will. All it does is reward skill - and top tier play should be the goal for every team and player.
LOL, You know what a "luxury tax" is?
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On August 10 2012 07:11 BanditX wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks KeSPA should just die with Brood War? They had their run, it was good, but questionable about a lot of things. GomTV has done everything right for the past 2-3 years, they have all the star power, the western world loves Gom. If these business that own KeSPA teams were smart, they would just move their teams to the SC2 league now that Brood War is done? I don't see the inherit draw KeSPA as an organization has in Korea. Its not like people who watch it don't know about GomTV. And it's not like TLBS + a few others have any auidience drawing power. It seems like better business for Samsung to just take their guys and put them in the Gom league.
Yes you are definitely the odd one here. Enjoy your time in the fortress of solitude.
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On August 10 2012 03:16 Zennith wrote:
I just like how everyone ignores that this should be illegal. It's essentially collusion, restricting free agency.
The problem is there is nothing illegal about this.
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On August 10 2012 09:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 03:16 Zennith wrote:
I just like how everyone ignores that this should be illegal. It's essentially collusion, restricting free agency. The problem is there is nothing illegal about this.
Not in Korea, no.
And to whoever said "tough, there's no player's union"... well, don't you think there should be?
And yes, the Luxury Tax exists in baseball. Still isn't a cap. Teams regularly exceed the Tax, including the Yankees, obviously enough. I just don't get how people support the teams and organizations over the players they represent.
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This may protect some players and some teams for now, but it is just delaying the growth of the Starcraft 2 pro-scene. With the Brood War scene kaput, this seems like a last ditch effort to maintain sponsors for Kespa teams.
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I literally rolling my eyes.
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On August 10 2012 11:34 StarStruck wrote:
I literally rolling my eyes.
Congrats bro. Very persuasive.
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On August 10 2012 12:05 Zennith wrote:Congrats bro. Very persuasive.
He's your brother? Damn I learned something new today!
It's only for a year, it's really not a big deal to have kespa/gsl players on their same teams so that GSL teams don't get screwed over and lose all their best players to kespa teams (trust me kespa teams have a lot more money then GSL teams and foreign teams).
This is good for both sides believe it or not to restrict it for a year.
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On August 10 2012 12:07 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 12:05 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 11:34 StarStruck wrote:
I literally rolling my eyes. Congrats bro. Very persuasive. He's your brother? Damn I learned something new today! It's only for a year, it's really not a big deal to have kespa/gsl players on their same teams so that GSL teams don't get screwed over and lose all their best players to kespa teams (trust me kespa teams have a lot more money then GSL teams and foreign teams). This is good for both sides believe it or not to restrict it for a year.
But is it good for the players?
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I see no reason to even bother trying to persuade someone of your nature from what I read.
You don't like it. Tough luck.
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On August 10 2012 12:18 Zennith wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 12:07 blade55555 wrote:On August 10 2012 12:05 Zennith wrote:On August 10 2012 11:34 StarStruck wrote:
I literally rolling my eyes. Congrats bro. Very persuasive. He's your brother? Damn I learned something new today! It's only for a year, it's really not a big deal to have kespa/gsl players on their same teams so that GSL teams don't get screwed over and lose all their best players to kespa teams (trust me kespa teams have a lot more money then GSL teams and foreign teams). This is good for both sides believe it or not to restrict it for a year. But is it good for the players?
Does it matter? Are you going to start a riot? If they feel that it is the best for them, let it be.
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people advocating this comparing it to a salary cap are ;\
I dunno about in Europe, but IMO salary caps are REALLY bad in US sports because you can cripple a team for YEARS based on how the cap is structured.
Teams in BW/Sc2 are nice and all, but individual players are much more important. teams work in real life because of associations like physical location/growing up watching a team on a whim. teams in bw/sc2 are irrelevant in that respect.
I see this contract thing as only being a bad thing that shouldnt belong in Sc2.
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I believe its fair, Kespa shouldnt lose their stars because GomTv can offer them better training(more experienced players giving advice) and everything and at the same time, GomTv players shouldnt leave to join Kespa. I think in the long run both these leagues can exists, we can see rivalries between not only teams but leagues too, which would be cool. So you have it per divisons playing out, top kespa teams vs top gom teams. We dont need only 1 league, 2 leagues would be nice
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EPT
