EPTI don't think widow mines do friendly damage.
[D] Widow Mine Fundamentally Flawed - Page 4
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monitor
United States2409 Posts
I don't think widow mines do friendly damage. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:57 s1ege wrote: it's still in beta..lmao. but if it was a release thing, I'd say the widow mine is stupidly underpowered. whatever it attaches itself to, that one unit can just be micro'd away and money wasted. Maybe if Blizzard made the thing like 3 second (or 5 blizz seconds) time, then it would have use. as of now, it is the most underpowered new unit Its not even in beta yet! It's alpha still. The thread title and tone is way over the top for the complaints. Obviously there are going to be tweaks, but "fundamental flaw" is seriously overstating the problem, all the OP wants is a couple minor changes, cooldown before explosion being decreased would fix the problem but we've got to all pretend like we have PhDs in game design so even the tiniest things are blown way out of proportion. Just wait for the Beta to come out. | ||
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chip789
Canada199 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
It is what Blizzard wants it to be. They don't want you to use it in an engagement. They want you to use it elsewhere, outside the deathball. It's their attempt to reduce the deathball problem. It's a successor of shredder. You can't use it in an engagement. Sadly, this is not spider mine. It's just as simple as that. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On July 31 2012 03:42 Roe wrote: Blizzard said they want mines to control space, and they previously said about the shredder that it should break up the deathballs and be away from the main force. Blizzard is simply putting these together I think. I have a huge concern about this. If it is to control space... HOW does that BREAK UP the deathball? Sure that gives terran good incentive to put supply elsewhere in the map, but... unless the unit is bad, why would the opponent then have the incentive to harass? And if he's still able to harass despite good widow mine placement, then isn't it kind of a shitty unit then? Does it not only encourage deathballs? Terran would have some supply away from the army, but the opponent would still have a deathball army (if he chooses to go deathball). | ||
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Fu[G]u
United States187 Posts
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Perception
United States26 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:20 chip789 wrote: What do you guys think of giving the mine...to the reaper? It shouldn't have a countdown timer, just instant detonation like a baneling. Good for defending bases from ling run by's n such. It would also give the reaper an actual job other then harassing a zerg mineral line. Say give the reaper a mine upgrade at factory tech... and the reaper will go out lay mines. Just a thought what do you guys think of that idea? I really think this is a great idea. If Blizzard did this, the reaper would be useful for so many things. First off, it regenerates health over time so one could send reapers in early game to do drone harass. Then once the enemy gets its defenses against the reapers, the reapers can then start taking map control by placing mines. Heck, I think it would even be better if the reaper has to stay in the same spot for 5 seconds to place the mine. That way you can't just place it in the middle of a fight. That would remove the "deathball" aspect of mine usage. This would not only make reapers USEFUL, but it would also mean they have some sort of usage past the "harassment" phase. I feel that even with reapers being able to regain health slowly over time, they will still be underused because they have no use in the mid-game. But with the widow mine spell given to the reaper, it would really make things interesting: "Do I make more marines and marauders for a deathball? Or do I make reapers to split up my army and take map control with mines?" | ||
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:20 larse wrote: The OP totally got it wrong. It is what Blizzard wants it to be. They don't want you to use it in an engagement. They want you to use it elsewhere, outside the deathball. It's their attempt to reduce the deathball problem. It's a successor of shredder. You can't use it in an engagement. Sadly, this is not spider mine. It's just as simple as that. It's their attempt to reduce deathball play but it won't. Blizzard is fucking clueless when it comes to the deathball problem. Hell, their entire design philosophy with this game is one gigantic mess. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:41 Stratos_speAr wrote: It's their attempt to reduce deathball play but it won't. Blizzard is fucking clueless when it comes to the deathball problem. Hell, their entire design philosophy with this game is one gigantic mess. Yep. All the wrongs about SC2 originated from the sin called deathball. They cant change the movement system now, so the only thing they can do is unit. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:44 larse wrote: Yep. All the wrongs about SC2 originated from the sin called deathball. They cant change the movement system now, so the only thing they can do is unit. They could easily change it because the changes don't require a change in the engine; all they require are some values to be changed that can and have been changed in the map editor. Blizzard is just too arrogant to do it. On topic, I fully agree with the OP. The Widow Mine (and the Swarm Host, Tempest, Battle Hellion, and Warhound) is terribly designed. It's like Blizzard is groping around in the dark, hoping to find some kind of solution to the current problems. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:46 Stratos_speAr wrote: They could easily change it because the changes don't require a change in the engine; all they require are some values to be changed that can and have been changed in the map editor. Blizzard is just too arrogant to do it. On topic, I fully agree with the OP. The Widow Mine (and the Swarm Host, Tempest, Battle Hellion, and Warhound) is terribly designed. It's like Blizzard is groping around in the dark, hoping to find some kind of solution to the current problems. You forgot Viper, the most terrible unit in HOTS. :D I think Blizzard's game designers became pretty incompetent after the second expansion of WOW. And D3 is the best example of how their game designs reached the lowest point. | ||
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McKTenor13
United States1383 Posts
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NemesysTV
United States1088 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On July 31 2012 04:50 larse wrote: You forgot Viper, the most terrible unit in HOTS. :D I think Blizzard's game designers became pretty incompetent after the second expansion of WOW. And D3 is the best example of how their game designs reached the lowest point. Hell, I don't even think WoW is very badly designed. It is an MMO that is well-designed for its audience; a huge playerbase. However, Diablo 3 and SC2 are for niche crowds (different niches) and they've failed their respective crowds. Oh, and I actually think that the Viper is the most interesting unit out of the entire bunch in HotS. At least Abduct and that cloud can make the game dynamic. The Tempest, Warhound, Battle Hellion, and Swarm Host don't really add much at all to the game. The Widow Mine is just going to be useless. The Oracle will be interesting as well, although I think an energy-draining cloak for the Protoss is all kinds of fucking stupid. | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
There is no "flawed" design, there is just bad design and good design. Bad design is usually one-dimensional and hard to balance, while good design can work in different directions depending on how it is used and can be balanced very naturally. For example I personally think Reapers and Void Rays are pretty bad from a design perspective. As for the Widow Mine, I have no idea. Has to be tested. All I know is that it has little synergy with working together with different kinds of unit inside an army. But that doesn't automatically make it a boring or hard to balance unit. The more concerning thing in that regard is the amount of damage and the amount of time it takes until it explodes, also the build time and the building costs. | ||
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boomudead1
United States186 Posts
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
On July 31 2012 05:02 Bommes wrote: This thread is a huge misconception. You think it is "flawed" design, when in fact it is intended design and the way Blizzard wants it to be played out. Maybe they will change the way it works once again, maybe they won't, but the way it functions right now is how they want it to function right now. There is no "flawed" design, there is just bad design and good design. Bad design is usually one-dimensional and hard to balance, while good design can work in different directions depending on how it is used and can be balanced very naturally. For example I personally think Reapers and Void Rays are pretty bad from a design perspective. As for the Widow Mine, I have no idea. Has to be tested. All I know is that it has little synergy with working together with different kinds of unit inside an army. But that doesn't automatically make it a boring or hard to balance unit. The more concerning thing in that regard is the amount of damage and the amount of time it takes until it explodes, also the build time and the building costs. If it is promoted to do something that it doesn't is is flawed. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Yeah...and this is why these threads keep getting made. If you're going to rehash something, make it better and more exciting, don't neuter it until it's barely worth anything. Why does terran have a buildable suicide unit now? This overlap is getting silly. Give mines to a unit, make them detonate almost immediately. | ||
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