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On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map?
I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up.
Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs.
Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something.
Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really?
At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control.
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On August 18 2012 12:43 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs. Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something. Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really? At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control.
two mines are not going to clear an entire mineral line unless you bunch up all your scvs...just like banelings would.
i don't see how you can saw that no micro is a good thing, you don't have control over what the mine explodes on, only where it's placed. you don't see players being good enough to see red (enemy units) moving into their mineral line and pull workers?
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My gosh, since widow mines are cost efficient vs anything but banelings and zerglings (widow mines 1hit roaches, not including splash), this will be so op
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I always thought with how long they take to detonate, you could just focus down your own unit before it does, effectively making it cost inefficient with minimal effort. Glad to see it's going to work more like BW spider mine. Also, vs melee units and charge ultras, these things would be a suicidal method of trying to fight the enemy - kind of a "if my army blows up to my own mines, I don't have to worry about microing it" scenario. Makes you wonder if Blizzard puts any thought into shit these days, or just waits for community feedback on everything they do.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 18 2012 12:53 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 12:43 Whitewing wrote:On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs. Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something. Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really? At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control. two mines are not going to clear an entire mineral line unless you bunch up all your scvs...just like banelings would. i don't see how you can saw that no micro is a good thing, you don't have control over what the mine explodes on, only where it's placed. you don't see players being good enough to see red (enemy units) moving into their mineral line and pull workers?
To be honest, the mineral line thing isn't such a concern, but the part where it's a better burrowed baneling is, especially given how hard it is to actually use burrowed banelings well. You can't just set and forget, you've got to actively watch the damn things constantly and then use it right when a decent marine clump is walking over them.
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On August 18 2012 13:00 X3GoldDot wrote:
My gosh, since widow mines are cost efficient vs anything but banelings and zerglings (widow mines 1hit roaches, not including splash), this will be so op
A LOOOOOOT of things are getting hit with the nerf bat in beta. This is going to be one of them.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
For reference, Spider mines in BW could not be triggered by Workers(or actually, floating units, such as Archons and workers), however if a unit triggered the spider mine and walked near workers, the workers would explode in a fiery of epicness.
like this
![[image loading]](http://i.minus.com/ibalX7ganphuOA.gif)
I think its a step in the right direction for Glorious Terran Steel, however I don't think it would be balanced against workers and should work similair to as in BW, then again we do want a different game
plus that whole Warhound thing just feels meh.
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If they're going to make widow mines explode instantly, then they better do the same thing to Banelings...
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That's interesting, as hover also didn't set off (and maybe still doesn't) goblin techies land mines in DotA, which was probably carried over from goblin land mines in WC3 proper.
I'm not sure why they didn't just shorten the timer on Widow Mines to say 4 or 5 seconds. That'll require a fairly quick response like Seeker Missiles, however, one positive is that you won't kill the mined unit with your own units, like tanks. That's probably the fundamental flaw this thread was originally about, now that I recall. Still, a solution for a mined unit to deal half damage, if killed prematurely, or growing damage potential over time might work.
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On August 18 2012 12:43 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs. Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something. Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really? At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control.
Banelings are more cost efficient at clearing mineral lines. They explode instantly, have AoE (mines don't anymore), and are cheaper. You only need 4 to wipe an entire mineral line.
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On August 18 2012 13:29 Kipsate wrote:For reference, Spider mines in BW could not be triggered by Workers(or actually, floating units, such as Archons and workers), however if a unit triggered the spider mine and walked near workers, the workers would explode in a fiery of epicness. like this I think its a step in the right direction for Glorious Terran Steel, however I don't think it would be balanced against workers and should work similair to as in BW, then again we do want a different game plus that whole Warhound thing just feels meh.
I agree. They should make it similar to BW so it does not trigger on workers. There's already enough harrassment units that kill workers, the mine should be solely for map control/army engagements/leapfrogging etc.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 18 2012 13:43 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 12:43 Whitewing wrote:On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs. Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something. Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really? At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control. Banelings are more cost efficient at clearing mineral lines. They explode instantly, have AoE (mines don't anymore), and are cheaper. You only need 4 to wipe an entire mineral line.
I'm not so concerned about the mineral line thing tbh, but they do instead still have AoE (at least from what I can tell), it's just smaller.
But they're going to be set and forget, with the same reward of a baneling land mine (less AoE I suppose, but can hit much bigger targets for a lot more, banelings suck vs. armored for example), without the micro requirement. I liked the widow mine better before, because at least that was interesting, albeit not so good. Hell, the freaking mine even hits air units.
There's got to be a happy medium here somewhere. You could at least micro against spider mines in BW.
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if this change is true, that is great for the game
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On August 18 2012 17:40 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 13:43 DemigodcelpH wrote:On August 18 2012 12:43 Whitewing wrote:On August 18 2012 12:38 Positronic wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? I think the key is not a-moving your entire army w obs on one hotkey into where you believe T has mines set up. Come on you're being ridiculous, the mine doesn't even have a longer range than detect on obs. Um, if it can burrow really fast, just run a few into a mineral line or something. Widow mines are now officially cheap, reactor-able, burrowed banelings that hit air, do more damage, and require no micro to control and make sure it detonates. I mean... really? At least with vulture mines you could micro away from it and kill them after they pop up with decent control. Banelings are more cost efficient at clearing mineral lines. They explode instantly, have AoE (mines don't anymore), and are cheaper. You only need 4 to wipe an entire mineral line. I'm not so concerned about the mineral line thing tbh, but they do instead still have AoE (at least from what I can tell), it's just smaller. But they're going to be set and forget, with the same reward of a baneling land mine (less AoE I suppose, but can hit much bigger targets for a lot more, banelings suck vs. armored for example), without the micro requirement. I liked the widow mine better before, because at least that was interesting, albeit not so good. Hell, the freaking mine even hits air units. There's got to be a happy medium here somewhere. You could at least micro against spider mines in BW.
Oddly enough, as they were with a 10 second detonation, they required micro in order to minimize they effectiveness of their damage. The trade off for making your opponent micro was that Mines cost supply, so if your opponent did micro properly, they would still win a direct engagement because the Terran used supply that could have been any other unit on mines. Seems fair to me in its original forum. Per usual though, forums are making a bloody mess of things. I've seriously lost some faith in TeamLiquid forums recently.
First it was nerf Tanks! Now its nerf Mines, but buff Tanks! Fucking stupid is what it is.
The mine was perfectly fine as it was, it was a great detriment against 1A across the map if used properly, but I guess TL loves their deathball playstyle? The only way to seperate a deathball is to make AOE better, and what do you guys do? Cry about AOE being too powerful. Hypocrits.
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I just had an panel with BLizzard including David Kim and he said that the widow mine change is true.
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
Moments like this need to happen with the widow mine.
That was SO HUGE when it happened, so exciting! we knew the mines were there but Flash? hid some mines under the ebay and the zerg player (Jaedong?) didn't know they were there. So sick.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/MrHoon/GaemmoLol.gif)
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On August 18 2012 18:28 Tppz! wrote:
I just had an panel with BLizzard including David Kim and he said that the widow mine change is true.
Does it still splash? Because the korean translation kinda sounds like it doesn't but does more damage instead.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50898 Posts
On August 18 2012 18:30 Qikz wrote:Moments like this need to happen with the widow mine. That was SO HUGE when it happened, so exciting! we knew the mines were there but Flash? hid some mines under the ebay and the zerg player (Jaedong?) didn't know they were there. So sick.
ggaemo...I mean its in the name of the gif man.
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
On August 18 2012 18:43 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 18:30 Qikz wrote:Moments like this need to happen with the widow mine. That was SO HUGE when it happened, so exciting! we knew the mines were there but Flash? hid some mines under the ebay and the zerg player (Jaedong?) didn't know they were there. So sick. ggaemo...I mean its in the name of the gif man.
My bad, I thought I remembered that happening in a Flash vs Jaedong game -.-
It was a long time ago, I have a bad memory. :p
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EPT
