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On August 18 2012 07:50 Zombo Joe wrote:
Widow Mines will stay Widow Mines because if they just brought back Spider Mines they would look lazy in the eyes of the press. Doesn't matter that it would be better for the game.
And I suppose copying almost half of WoL units from popular movies/TV shows is not considered lazy.
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widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 18 2012 06:17 AsherSC wrote:
I don't think that the recent change to the mine actually addresses all the issues with it. Because the mine seems to be invulnerable once it has activated there is no possibility for a good player to quickly react and neutralize the threat. As the mine currently exists you can not mine clear without sacrificing units, unless you have observers. Think back to the days of Brood War in which you could, if you were good enough, use a single DT to destroy mines. As a bad player this was very difficult for me, even in micro-practice maps in which I was able to focus solely on the DT vs Mine micro. Another change to make would be to remove the population cost on the unit, so that it does not tie up food if you leave it in your base to defend against drops/recalls. The final change would be to remove the cost, and make the mine a limited ability on a unit, such as the Vulture Helion.
Blizzard should change the mine so that the highly skilled players are rewarded more for their fast reaction times and superior micro. Giving it "unburrowed" health and changing the "attachment" mechanic would make this a more flexible unit.
On August 18 2012 08:14 mutantmagnet wrote:
That doesn't need to be changed. You can have both.
What do you mean they can have both? I was trying to say that they should add HP and a slower attack time, because right now it is basically instant.
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On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers
When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded.
Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues.
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On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues.
can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous
for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map?
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On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map?
That is a bit silly, how do they expect us to clear mines?!
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On August 18 2012 10:53 AsherSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? That is a bit silly, how do they expect us to clear mines?!
uh by using detector units and tanking units like zealots?
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On August 18 2012 11:15 fuzzy_panda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:53 AsherSC wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? That is a bit silly, how do they expect us to clear mines?! uh by using detector units and tanking units like zealots?
You should be able to mine clear without losing units.
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Another fucking [D] X is fundementally flawed. Please proceed to fuck off with these.
User was warned for this post
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On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues.
Spider mines couldn't hit air and couldnt be set off by workers as far as I am aware. Correct me if wrong I'm not a bw vet
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On August 18 2012 10:53 AsherSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? That is a bit silly, how do they expect us to clear mines?!
Lmao. Detect radius is obviously larger than the 'mine see, mine attack' radius. And if stalkers don't outrange it, colossus sure will.
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On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues.
spider mines had those limitations. i don't see a problem or your point. they couldn't hit air and the AI would never attack workers (but the splash would). watching a vulture lure a goon with a mine chasing it into a probe line was always entertaining.
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Instant explosion? Now all they need to do is give them to a unit instead of terran having buildable suicide units like zerg. And change/replace/eliminate the warhound, tempest, entomb, etc.
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On August 18 2012 11:18 AsherSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 11:15 fuzzy_panda wrote:On August 18 2012 10:53 AsherSC wrote:On August 18 2012 09:10 ROOTT1 wrote:On August 18 2012 09:02 stevarius wrote:On August 18 2012 09:00 ROOTT1 wrote:
widow mine is the most cost effective "unit" in hots =/, at least as far as ive seen in the sc2 hots ums
imo it shouldnt be able to target air + workers When you place restrictions like that on a unit, it becomes fucking retarded. Don't even start with that bullshit. The shredder already got removed for similar issues. can u fucking imagine how strong it becomes if it were able to target air units and workers without a timer? 2 mines would take out an entire mineral line, they were insanely cost efficient even before this buff.. removing the timer is fucking ridiculous for fuck sakes they even strap onto obs, how the fuck are we supposed to move around the map? That is a bit silly, how do they expect us to clear mines?! uh by using detector units and tanking units like zealots? You should be able to mine clear without losing units.
can you not target it before its impact like mines in BW?
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This is an excellent change guys. A lot of people may not know this from lack of testing/playing or whatever, but the widow mine with the timer was fundamentally flawed because you could not use it properly with your main army if you were going mech or even bio.
In max 200/200 situations, if you have mines in your army, you're at a disadvantage because they will always attach to the frontal most units and your units will target and kill those first, making it as if the mine was not even in the battle, and the battle would play out exactly like in wol.
With this change it's more like a spider mine and does affect positioning a lot more, as well as allows widow mines to be used in conjunction with siege tanks. The problem as described above is with the timer, widow mines and tanks aka mech could not be utilized together to zone out enemies because they contradicted each other.
The widow mined units were killed by siege tank hellions before ever detonating. And the only scenario in which widow mines would be cost effective with your main army is if you had the mines planted and ran away from the battle which of course is impossible with immobile siege tanks.
Widow mine detonating like a spider mine is a great change. They were already quite underwhelming from a lot of the beta/custom game's I've seen so far, detonation like a spider mine is a great change in the right direction. Now they can focus more on balancing the damage/spash during beta instead of dealing with a fundamental design problem of the unit 
Now if only they got rid of the gundam marauders or did something with it to make it contribute to positional strong mech play lol
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To people who say Widow Mines shouldn't target air, I disagree because builds like 3 Gate Void Ray/4 Gate Warp Prism would shut down all Mech openings. Also, consider that this is really the only new unit Terran gets, while Z/P get a lot more to play with. Obviously if it's OP it'll be changed... Idk why people are up in arms over it.
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I much rather it explodes immediately, because any good players can just micro away the units.
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Why not just make the mine part of a unit ability? Then it wouldn't matter as much if it's easily countered or might do little damage. If it is an ability of a unit, then even if mine is not as useful, the unit can still be. Thus the mine would provide an opportunity for damage, but not exclusive. One unit that comes to mind is reaper mid-game upgrades to provide a useful role at that point.
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Very glad with this change, but the mine costing 1 food supply is still a concern especially in late game scenarios in a massive map. Perhaps lessen the damage or make it 0.5 food supply.
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my only gripe with the widow is that it costs supply which is huge... In brood war it takes tons of spider mines throughout the map to seize map control with them. having that many widow mines in hots limits the army value a ton
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EPT
