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[D] Maps that need to go? Replacements? - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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CrtBalorda
Profile Joined December 2011
Slovenia704 Posts
July 19 2012 11:09 GMT
#81
My opinnion is almost 100% oposite of these polls.

Really suprised people hate Condemned Ridge so much. Its like people are hating on it just cuz its the only new blizzard map or something.
4th August 2012...Never forget.....
griMetone
Profile Joined December 2010
Denmark57 Posts
July 19 2012 11:10 GMT
#82
I know this isn't completely on topic, but has anyone explored or have any insight on what the impact of lowering gas/mineral counts at different bases would be. It's just something I have been wondering for a while and I haven't seen many maps change it up at all.
"Change favors the prepared mind."
CaptainCharisma
Profile Joined February 2011
New Zealand808 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 11:15:26
July 19 2012 11:14 GMT
#83
On July 19 2012 18:36 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 16:36 Jarree wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:29 Plexa wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:14 Jarree wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:05 FakeDeath wrote:
Is it true there is 70% winrate for PvT on this map?O.O
Always thought that Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak are one of the most balanced map.

From David Kim interview:

In our current map pool, we’re seeing that not every map we’ve added to our pool is balanced for every matchup. For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom

Since when has a ladder stat ever held much meaning?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom - 54% winrate for Protoss vs Terran
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom - 49% winrate for Protoss vs Terran

Map is fine, ladder is terrible.

The topic was about ladder pool, i play in the ladder. I dont get your argument? Even if marineking beats everyone in that map and you present me some stats about it, why should i care? I am not marineking. If the topic was about "what maps do you want to see pros play on", then ok lets see some tlpd stats lol.

My argument is that Cloud Kingdom actually isn't that imbalanced PvT and that you shouldn't read too much into what Blizzard say about ladder statistics because you have no idea where they've come from and how they've been adjusted.



Despite the fact that Jarree is talking about ladder, not pro players, your argument is still bad. Blizzard has access to all the results ever possible and has an interest in promoting the idea that the game is well balanced. I think a quote from David Kim that Cloud Kingdom is 70% for PvT is extremely important.

The only factor to consider is a lot of time has passed since that quote and the results may now be different.
EG.DeMuslim --- EG.ThorZain --- TSL.Polt --- LGIMMvp --- Mill.fOrGG --- EG.Stephano --- EGiNcontroL --- EG.IdrA --- MarineKing.Prime --- SlayerS_MMA --- Liquid'Hero
_Nova_
Profile Joined May 2011
United States167 Posts
July 19 2012 11:18 GMT
#84
I'd say remove TDA, and Shakuras. Replace with Atlantis Spaceship, and either Sanshorn Mists, or Whirlwind.
SnuggleZhenya
Profile Joined July 2010
596 Posts
July 19 2012 11:24 GMT
#85
I'd be fine with Antiga in the map pool if they'd be willing to introduceone of the tournament versions.
You'll never get better being an angry nerd sitting alone in your room.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
July 19 2012 11:25 GMT
#86
On July 19 2012 20:18 _Nova_ wrote:
I'd say remove TDA, and Shakuras. Replace with Atlantis Spaceship, and either Sanshorn Mists, or Whirlwind.

Atlantis spaceship and whirlwind are both terrible imbalanced maps. Not sure about Sanshorn Mists, there hasn't been as many games on it.

The problem with the map pool is that there are really no great new GSL maps to pick from. Might as well stick with the old maps for now.
Imzoo
Profile Joined June 2012
132 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 11:35:59
July 19 2012 11:34 GMT
#87
Condemned Ridge, Tal'Darim Altar and Antiga Shipyard have to change.

Condemned Ridge
Very bad design, Big map and it's very hard to take Zelnaga.

Tal'Darim Altar
Very hard map for terran and protoss(pvz muta).

Antiga Shipyard
Very hard to B4 for terran(Creep, timing T3) and impossible to B5 if you have not a HUGE avantage.
Shadow_Dog
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada427 Posts
July 19 2012 11:51 GMT
#88
Tal'Darim, Shakuras and Antiga should definitely be replaced. Not just from ladder but from tournament maps as well. Daybreak is getting a bit old, too.
DarQraven
Profile Joined January 2010
Netherlands553 Posts
July 19 2012 11:59 GMT
#89
TDA really needs to go. I've had it on veto for god knows how long, due to PvP and being forced to 2base all-in every game in PvZ so you could avoid the Muta rampage.

Antiga I'm not to keen on in PvT for two reasons (fortified position in mid with turret = no vision of T army whatsoever before you are committed to attacking, and the weird main ramp design that makes you super vulnerable to drops and split attacks), but I guess it's decent enough in the other matchups.
Haustka
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
July 19 2012 12:02 GMT
#90
Taldarim and Shakuras need to go for sure.

Power of Human Will
Kpaxlol
Profile Joined April 2010
813 Posts
July 19 2012 12:04 GMT
#91
Tal'darim, Shakuras, Entombed and Antiga need to go. Rest are fine. I don't know why people hate condemned ridge that much. I think it's a cool model for a map. So big and long games are almost always being interesting. Maps like antiga and entombed are way shittier than it.
<3 bw
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
July 19 2012 12:07 GMT
#92
if you aks me:
Every map except daybreak has to go at tournaments, actually for months. I still give daybreak for around 2 months.

Every should go at ladder, I need 10 very new maps.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 12:14:55
July 19 2012 12:09 GMT
#93
On July 19 2012 20:34 Imzoo wrote:
Tal'Darim Altar
Very hard map for terran and protoss(pvz muta).

Antiga Shipyard
Very hard to B4 for terran(Creep, timing T3) and impossible to B5 if you have not a HUGE avantage.Last edit:


Once upon a time 2 base mutas was good vs toss... I can muta on any map i want now, the difference is, with other maps i can take a third ^^. The thing about antiga is also very wrong. Terran with tanks seiged up in the middle of the map can control the middle and do harasses with drop ships while slowly encroaching the zerg. Do you even know what you are talking about lol.
Kpaxlol
Profile Joined April 2010
813 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 12:13:33
July 19 2012 12:13 GMT
#94
NVM
<3 bw
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
July 19 2012 12:19 GMT
#95
On July 19 2012 20:14 CaptainCharisma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 18:36 Plexa wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:36 Jarree wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:29 Plexa wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:14 Jarree wrote:
On July 19 2012 16:05 FakeDeath wrote:
Is it true there is 70% winrate for PvT on this map?O.O
Always thought that Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak are one of the most balanced map.

From David Kim interview:

In our current map pool, we’re seeing that not every map we’ve added to our pool is balanced for every matchup. For example, our data shows a 70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom

Since when has a ladder stat ever held much meaning?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom - 54% winrate for Protoss vs Terran
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom - 49% winrate for Protoss vs Terran

Map is fine, ladder is terrible.

The topic was about ladder pool, i play in the ladder. I dont get your argument? Even if marineking beats everyone in that map and you present me some stats about it, why should i care? I am not marineking. If the topic was about "what maps do you want to see pros play on", then ok lets see some tlpd stats lol.

My argument is that Cloud Kingdom actually isn't that imbalanced PvT and that you shouldn't read too much into what Blizzard say about ladder statistics because you have no idea where they've come from and how they've been adjusted.



Despite the fact that Jarree is talking about ladder, not pro players, your argument is still bad. Blizzard has access to all the results ever possible and has an interest in promoting the idea that the game is well balanced. I think a quote from David Kim that Cloud Kingdom is 70% for PvT is extremely important.

The only factor to consider is a lot of time has passed since that quote and the results may now be different.


Well, we have access to two stats. One is straightforward. The other is calculated through a complex formula (Blizz said themselves they adjusted ladder balance rates in a pretty complex way). They give very different results. I'll take the transparent one over the complicated one any day.

Well anyway, the rest of your comments just show you don't know what you're talking about. The center base on Daybreak as a third is impossible to hold. Do you expect to be taken seriously when you think TDA or Shakuras are fine and should stay ?
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
July 19 2012 12:21 GMT
#96
condemned ridge, shakuras and TDA need to go.
TDA sucks because of no ramp and the silly rocks at the third. Awful map. Shakuras is ok but leads to split maps too often and third is slightly too hard to take. Condemned ridge i just don't like.

For the rest maps are fine. Daybreak could use a few tweaks to some space behind mineral lines though as cannon rushing is too easy there, PvP cannon rush is very hard to stop for example if you are just 1 second late. Because it;s so strong you can do silly things like faking a cannon rush and that kind of stuff on it as well.
roym899
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany426 Posts
July 19 2012 12:22 GMT
#97
They should make Antiga and Entombed Cross Only imho.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 12:34:16
July 19 2012 12:27 GMT
#98
On July 19 2012 21:22 roym899 wrote:
They should make Antiga and Entombed Cross Only imho.


They should remove both. Antiga is just plain boring with features that make comebacks impossible (center gold with highground) and the 4th base unholdable ; and Entombed is universally hated by zergs (The least favorite map of DRG, Stephano, and every other zerg pro).
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
Champloo
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1850 Posts
July 19 2012 12:33 GMT
#99
Don't know about Antige, but Entombed should definitely be cross spawn only.

TDA, Condemned Ridge and Shakuras need to be replaced. But the problem is that there are no good new maps used by tournaments at the moment, so we have to hope for Blizzard to make a new good map and I don't have much hope for that. Anyone knows if we will ever get a fixed version of Metropolis on ladder?
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
July 19 2012 12:35 GMT
#100
3 that need to go at the end of the season

Tal'Darim - Oldest map on the ladder. Very stale map.
Shakuras - Another old map. Also, I hate terran tank play on that ridge next to your main
Antiga Shipyard - Honestly just bored of this map
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
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