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On July 19 2012 03:50 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 03:30 seeekr wrote:On July 19 2012 02:48 HardlyNever wrote:
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.
It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me. It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who does that (cringe/mute) with interviews and female hosts. Awkward and forced is exactly how I feel about these things, too.
I don't care about the gender of the people involved. The main thing is having passion and wanting to share that. That's why it's such a joy to watch someone like Day[9] cast a game -- he's ridiculously passionate. And he even manages to make those forced interviews to make somewhat nice because he just fills them with the fun and humor he's overflowing with! One of these things is not like the other  But more seriously, regarding this entire thread is it such a big deal? We have this discussion every time there's a female on camera. Until they actually have booth babes in bikinis does it matter so much?
then it will truly be a recognized sport.
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On July 19 2012 04:10 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 03:22 Plansix wrote:On July 19 2012 03:14 zimz wrote:On July 19 2012 03:09 amazingoopah wrote:
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).
Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this. Probably because after one appearance nerds started raiding FB stalking her and making jokes nonstop and drooling. There does seem to be a double standard when when it comes to women at events. People start demanding their qualifications for appearing at the event and demanding to know why people who "know more about the game" were not hired. Yet, if it is a guy who is hired, no one cares why he is at the event. absolutely not. If a man hosts an event and does know shit about the game/the scene he will get the full critcism and flame, the SC2 community is able to pull off. I don't see why this should be different for women!
But... they aren't analyzing the game. They weren't casting. They occasionally mentioned who won or lost. They were HOSTS. I swear most of you didn't even watch the event and seem to think that she was talking about starcraft... thats the job of the casters.
I hope more women like Lauren can host at these events so esports can be bigger and more like... ya know, real sports.
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I don't know if i'm the only one who feels like this is a waste of space topic, but it is. Attractive men and women get movie roles and stripper jobs. The same reason good looking news anchors with good voices are chosen. MEN AND WOMEN. lets not pretend like we don't like attractive people and that its all made up and its Barbie and GI Joe's fault. This is just stupid. If she doesn't want to be objectified she'll go to college for dentistry not media.
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On July 19 2012 04:28 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 04:23 GertHeart wrote:On July 18 2012 13:53 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'? What do you mean, 'you people'? On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.
Nada's body thread = Acceptable.
Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.
Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.
Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works. Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek. That's how I've been raised, sad as it is. That's what I'm saying. That's how you're all raised that Nada is acceptable and has earned the right, and the woman hasn't. So one is sexist and the other isn't. When in reality they are no different from each other minus the accomplishments. I remember when KellyMilkies did a FHM photo shoot. For those unaware, KellyMilkies has done a lot in the community for more than 5 years in all of gaming not just SC2. Yet she got so much backlash for it. That's our community and every other gaming community. Uneducated on your own upbringing always lashing out at women more than men. Most don't even realize they do it. You're daughter has to be home by 9 your son can be back the next morning. etc... etc... Kellymilkies hasn't done a lot for the community. In fact, she's pretty universally disliked in the DotA and LoL communities for her..antics.
Not what I was going for, regardless, she has put more work into the community than 99% of the people, that includes you. Her being disliked is because of other retards too, and rumors that spread. These are commonplace in society. Even in your line "Universally disliked." I am in the LoL communty, I don't dislike her. Issue is it's easier to dislike a female than it is a male. And it's harder for a female to be liked again. This is no different than the weekly posts of "Is Esports dying?" "Is IdrA making a come back?" etc...
I'm saying people tend to jump to conclusions towards females much faster than men. You're no different from that sir. You've been raised that way. You don't even know the facts of everything, and there is no way for people to know all the factors, that's how it works, only those two know what happened 100%, but here is the truth, she got judged more harshly than the guy. Why? Because of the action? No, guys have done what she did and nothing was said about it. It was pointed at more heavily because it's a she, and not a he. That's how this world works, you as a male and a female are raised to believe females are inferior. If not? Why is it in most TV shows setup like this? Why is there almost never a powerful female character in any TV show that represents something without love and instead fights for rights? So much wishy washy stuff, while men are portrayed in countless ways females are always put in a format of the majority of housewives, even in stories/books.
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Clearly written by a liberal feminist with poor looks. I understand how being uneducated and ugly must suck but try to understand that men enjoy looking at attractive woman, not ugly ones. There is without a doubt a place for the women you are bashing in SC2 and a place for them in all sports in general. At the same time, a woman who knows as much about the game and casting as the current male casters, is welcomed. Just remember for next time, your opinions are only stupid when you say them out loud, in your head you can always be right!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.
Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.
Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.
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On July 18 2012 22:35 Ramanujan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 22:33 prplhz wrote:
I also think it's wrong to hire someone to host an event who did not have any prior interest in the community and who does not have any knowledge about the game, solely because of their gender and their looks. Furthermore I think it's in NASL's best interest to use someone that female gamers will look up to instead of just using someone that male gamers will look at. I doubt anybody showed up for the event or watched the event because Lauren Elise was there but I think they would be able to attract more female gamers if they didn't indirectly promote a somewhat sexist atmosphere through a gimmick like this. That's funny. Hire ugly chicks or you're SEXIST arrrr!
Yea, that's not what I said. Why are you posting when you don't bother to read?
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I can understand why they would have someone like Lauren Elise at these events and it's definitely a balance between preserving the integrity of the events while attracting new viewers. NASL certainly has the right to experiment with new ways to get viewership and this is one of the classic strategies that have been proven to work.
What would strike me as a good balance is to bring in someone new who is interested enough to learn about the game and eventually become quite knowledgeable about game mechanics as well as the community overall.
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On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.
Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either. Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.
Is this a joke? While Scarlett is a good player, she didn't even say a word when she won. In fact she left the stage and had to return to get her trophy. Hardly the sign of a person who would want to consider orating as a future career move.
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Shouldn't be a gender question at all.
Whenever someone with no achievements is overly displayed in the community, they get hate. Most girls fall into this category. Guys get it too (Inc/Destiny get shot at sometimes for having low results as players). Put people who have earned it in these positions of visibility, regardless of gender, instead of showing off girls in esports with no achievements and reinforcing the conception that girls achieve nothing.
Event hosting is a different story somewhat because it's not strictly game related, but I'd rather have someone who I know cares about the game than a random brought in for looks.
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I'm surprised there are people out there who care about this. The same thing happens with attractive men being used in programs that are targetted towards women. I think it's dangerous to assume that just because someone is attractive it means they were probably chosen for that reason alone and are otherwise unqualified to be doing what they're doing. From what I've read in this thread from those who watched this event, people are either saying Lauren did a great job as a hostess or they didn't even notice her.
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On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.
Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either. Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.
1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)
User was warned for this post
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On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.
I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.
Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.
...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.
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On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.
I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on. Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews. ...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.
anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.
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as people, present them as what they are. people.
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On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked
T.T Everyone probably thought this from reading the thread, so the joke lost all it's humor from being unoriginal, -1000pts for failing so hard.
I, currently, dislike how women are being presented (take the HSC "chair" commericals... WHO THE FUCK wants a model feeling a fucking chair? It wasn't even sexy, it was weird) like a car show. This is eSports, where people can be themselves. I want the girls, pretty or not, to come out as themselves. This whole "tits and ass" image that's been floating around the community has really been frustrating me. I want community, not a superficial figure.
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On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.
Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either. Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim. 1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something? 2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_woman. No, she's not a guy.
2: She's pretty cute, imho.
Regardless, I concur that she is a bit too shy from what I've seen to cast probably... but that may change (or have already.)
On July 19 2012 08:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:T.T Everyone probably thought this from reading the thread, so the joke lost all it's humor from being unoriginal, -1000pts for failing so hard. I, currently, dislike how women are being presented (take the HSC "chair" commericals... WHO THE FUCK wants a model feeling a fucking chair? It wasn't even sexy, it was weird) like a car show. This is eSports, where people can be themselves. I want the girls, pretty or not, to come out as themselves. This whole "tits and ass" image that's been floating around the community has really been frustrating me. I want community, not a superficial figure.
Sadly, the fact is the male-dominated community is the target audience, so pretty women are an effective marketing tool. It's irritating, but I think it's just one of those sad facts of life that I doubt will ever change, so long as sex continues to sell so easily.
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On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.
I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on. Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews. ...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days. anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.
They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.
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On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.
Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either. Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim. 1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something? 2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)
Scarlett is a transgender, going from male to female. I'm pretty sure the transformation is complete by now.
True, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," and there are many, many eyes watching her now, especially since she's crushing a good bit of face left and right. For me, I don't find her attractive, but I find extremely few people attractive, so it's nothing personal, lol. 'Sides, it doesn't matter to me what she looks like. Wouldn't have a problem listening to her cast games; probably has some good insight.
I posted earlier today about how I don't think she'd make the best representative for people to point to when they're trying to promote female gamers. I've finally found a decent analogy, I think. It's not perfect, analogies never are, lol.
It's similar to, say, me, being an American, moving to France as a progamer (lol, me, a progamer.... m-D). Within a couple months, learning the language and working on citizenship requirements, etc., I say that I represent French gamers. Am I technically wrong? Well, no, I suppose not. But wouldn't someone like Stephano or Adelscott (for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm impossibly better than they are), who are native-born and all, make a more... I guess, "authentic" representative? Regardless of the "fact" that I'm more skilled or more intelligent than they are at the game, would they really want to use ME as the exemplar of their nation?
Gaah, I'm not wording this right and I'm sorry if I offend anyone. But hopefully that makes my earlier point a little clearer.
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On July 19 2012 08:22 Blossom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.
I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on. Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews. ...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days. anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you. They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.
you seem pretty uninformed about who they are. here at least is trump's gf's involvement:
http://cyber-sports.net/taxonomy/term/62
after a lengthy search, i still--for the life of me--cant find her name. =(
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EPT
