[?] Spades hacking? - Page 94

07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)

DamageControL

United States4222 Posts

June 05 2012 04:22 GMT

#1861

On June 05 2012 13:21 dae wrote:

Show nested quote +

I tried it myself, you do not see the middle of scan if you scan edge of screen.

The no scout scv is still really weird but that is good to know.

Dante_A_

United States161 Posts

June 05 2012 04:22 GMT

#1862

On June 05 2012 13:20 algorithm0r wrote:
It is sad that the TL community should decide these things. We the community have no stakes in this.

It really confuses me how someone involved enough in SC2 to have an ID on TeamLiquid wouldn't see why the community would have a stake in preventing cheaters.

Upholding the integrety of competition is an important element for spectators, which we all are.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

June 05 2012 04:22 GMT

#1863

There is a method to determine if he was using a maphack. Have him send his harddrive to someone else to be examined. He cannot hack with the program to do so, and he cannot permanently delete the program without wiping the entire drive (which is easily detectable).

In theory he could of been running the program from a different hard drive, I suppose...nevermind me

nOlifeTERRAN

United States153 Posts

June 05 2012 04:22 GMT

#1864

Um I wasnt trolling! Lastshadow has even admitted he was caught . learn your history

itsjuspeter

United States668 Posts

June 05 2012 04:22 GMT

#1865

On June 05 2012 13:20 sureup wrote:
I tested the magic scan, and yes you cannot see the center!

problem is this isn't enough. If you watched the analysis, the scan was SO FAR AWAY from the screen of vision that it was impossible.

TheWorldToCome

United States452 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1866

If the game vs Lucifron on Entombed Valley doesn't convince you, I dunno what will.

He scouts with his scv around the base without at all looking at the base he is scouting. He sieges at a perfect timing/position.

algorithm0r

Canada486 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1867

On June 05 2012 13:21 zev318 wrote:

Show nested quote +

cause blizzard acts so fast at banning bots/hackers.

It is Blizzards business only, not ours. If they want to leave them on there forever they can.

AxionSteel

United States7754 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1868

On June 05 2012 13:22 zergtossy wrote:
Um I wasnt trolling! Lastshadow has even admitted he was caught . learn your history

Your point?

tomatriedes

New Zealand5356 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1869

On June 05 2012 13:16 Dodgin wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah I was afraid of this, if the poorer Korean teams and player have the means to make money in online tournaments by cheating easily I can see the younger ones doing it. especially in a team house environment where it's easy to give into peer pressure.

I really doubt this happens in the Slayers/IM houses though.

And not just Koreans. Any foreigner who lives in a house with other gamers is going to be just as likely to do this. It just seems so silly to broadcast online tournaments live with no delay when there's money involved.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1870

wow, mihri or whatevers comments are pretty eye opening. from cats stream or whatever, and the previous "evidence" i agree this seems blatantly obvious, but until its actually proven spades is still ok.

Gamegene

United States8308 Posts

June 05 2012 04:23 GMT

#1871

On June 05 2012 13:23 algorithm0r wrote:

Show nested quote +

It is Blizzards business only, not ours. If they want to leave them on there forever they can.

yah cuz this has nothing to do with tournaments or prize moneyz.

just ladder points rite?

Australia1651 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1872

On June 05 2012 13:22 itsjuspeter wrote:

Show nested quote +

problem is this isn't enough. If you watched the analysis, the scan was SO FAR AWAY from the screen of vision that it was impossible.

Test this too. Play a SC2 game without ever going into Fog Of War.

algorithm0r

Canada486 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1873

On June 05 2012 13:22 Dante_A_ wrote:

Show nested quote +

We are only vilifying someone who does not have the opportunity to defend themselves in a free space. Further, we have no jurisdiction to apply punishment and our speculation and vilification are punishment themselves.

zmansman17

United States2567 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1874

I don't even know what to think anymore.

Bagration

United States18282 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1875

On June 05 2012 13:19 Positronic wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 05 2012 13:17 Mirhi wrote:

On June 05 2012 13:06 Swords wrote:

On June 05 2012 13:03 Mirhi wrote:

On June 05 2012 12:51 SgtCoDFish wrote:

On June 05 2012 12:49 Mirhi wrote:

On June 05 2012 12:39 dyi wrote:

On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.

Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).

If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.

About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.

I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.

Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.

It's pretty common.

Quick question: How does Spades and Artist know MANY Koreans frequently stream cheat? That's a big accusation.

Time spent in multiple Korean prohouses. They both told me it was standard in Korea and even more wide spread there than it is here. The exact scenario was, I asked Artist if Koreans cheated, he shrugged and said "Yes. Korean standard." It was almost a joke, but we discussed it more later. There's a completely different view point of it there. I had to explain to Artist how badly America and Europe thought of it and stress he could never do it, it would be the end of his career if he did. It took me like 30 minutes to really make it clear how unacceptable it was to everyone, and to me personally.

If you're going to be a whistleblower for this (which would likely lead to the end of live-streamed showmatches or tournaments where the players weren't inhouse and bring in pure replay-casted games) could you please make a thread about it and detail it all?

You answered your own question.

So you aren't going to make a thread about it? I understand not wanting to risk your career, which would obviously be put at stake with such a huge accusation, but if that stream cheating shit is true it really should be brought to light. Obviously you shouldn't take the hit for it, but I wish a number of people (since lots of people seem to know about it) would come out and lift the veil. Eventually someone's gonna come clean and by then it may just destroy everything.

eSports is just like real sports. There's girls, there's drugs, there's cheating, there are people 100% legit.

I question whether people really want to know.

Don't cop out with an attitude like this. Tell the community what it deserves to know.

We deserve to know and we want to know, but I fear if what Mirhi says is completely true, there might not be a scene left after the wake of the relevations. The scene is fragile, and dark clouds lie ahead in the horizon for the pro Sc2 scene.

Positronic

121 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1876

On June 05 2012 13:22 zergtossy wrote:
Um I wasnt trolling! Lastshadow has even admitted he was caught . learn your history

You are trolling because you couldn't be dumb enough to actually believe there are equivalencies between suspicions about Spades right now and anything to do with LastShadow. The only correlation is they both hacked in BW.

FakeDeath

Malaysia6060 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1877

On June 05 2012 13:23 TheWorldToCome wrote:
If the game vs Lucifron on Entombed Valley doesn't convince you, I dunno what will.

He scouts with his scv around the base without at all looking at the base he is scouting. He sieges at a perfect timing/position.

lol He had 0 map vision and he siege all the tanks at the edge of his natural.
He is hacking 100%.

Synche

United States1345 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1878

On June 05 2012 13:23 tomatriedes wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 05 2012 13:16 Dodgin wrote:

On June 05 2012 13:12 tomatriedes wrote:

On June 05 2012 13:00 Jell wrote:

This is really scary, I don't doubt there are a lot of people out there who know shit is going down but are afraid of being the ones doing it.

When you think about it, it 's not surprising at all. Imagine you're at a team house surrounded by team mates playing in a Playhem tournament for 100$ or whatever which is being streamed with no delay. It's so easy for a team mate to just on the stream and start telling you what's going on. Every online tournament needs to start using significant delays. It's just madness that they don't and expect people not to cheat.

If anything, this is what needs to be the takeaway.

All online tournaments need to have a broadcast delay.

DuFFmAn69

United States78 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1879

that's a lot of pages! spades, you should start streaming for mass views right now ftw. $_$

DjDickGrayson

United States81 Posts

June 05 2012 04:24 GMT

#1880

Stream Arrest! And request to keep thread open!!

Why don't we watch his streamed games and see if he plays the same then compare results to the accused hacked matches. I also, and I'm sure the pro's feel the same way, encourage anyone that might have a suspicious replay to come forward. Livelihood's are at stake here and we must reach a conclusion quickly, we don't want a smear/bullying campaign on our hands.

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