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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 17:31 MLG_Wiggin wrote:I didn't want to post anything at all in this thread but... Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. Regardless of whether or not Spades is hacking, real life death threats are completely unacceptable. Have class, people.
trolls gonna troll.
there are always going to be idiots that do things like this. if i were spades i would just ignore these threats because they are baseless. most of these people threatening him probably dont even live in the united states let alone close to MLG.
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SPades hacked 24/7 in Broodwar too so maybe its true
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On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail.
Regardless of wether you hack or not, even if you do, I have absolutely no idea how someone can think "hacking in an online game" would be a reason to threaten someone's: Life ; Family ; Dog or whatever...
It seems like a common reaction too, seeing as the same thing happened to a BF3 streamer who was accused of hacking as well.
I just don't get that kind of behaviour, regardless if someone's guilty of hacking or not.
edit:
On June 05 2012 17:33 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:31 MLG_Wiggin wrote:I didn't want to post anything at all in this thread but... On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. Regardless of whether or not Spades is hacking, real life death threats are completely unacceptable. Have class, people. trolls gonna troll. there are always going to be idiots that do things like this. if i were spades i would just ignore these threats because they are baseless. most of these people threatening him probably dont even live in the united states let alone close to MLG.
I don't see those people as trolls, I think most of them are seriously angry (or downright confused). I just cannot imagine someone sitting at his PC going "huehuehuehueheuheuhe a death threat would be a fun thing to do for the lulz"? That seems more like a "I WILL TAKE IT IN MY OWN HANDS TO SHOW THIS PERSON WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG!" kind of thought process...
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On June 05 2012 17:33 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:31 MLG_Wiggin wrote:I didn't want to post anything at all in this thread but... On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. Regardless of whether or not Spades is hacking, real life death threats are completely unacceptable. Have class, people. trolls gonna troll. there are always going to be idiots that do things like this. if i were spades i would just ignore these threats because they are baseless. most of these people threatening him probably dont even live in the united states let alone close to MLG.
Stop for a second. You don't even have the slightest clue this is true. Spades has been making it look like he's the subject of a worldwide conspiracy against his little person in nearly every single post in this thread, why would he stop ?
Even if it's true, what good does it make to make it public ?
This post was beyond stupidity.
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On June 05 2012 17:25 Moonling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. What further investigation can be done to solidify this? Im very new to hearing of this program but it seems convincing. This post should be in OP so people know this research was done.
ANTIGA SHIPYARD
SC2 gears is not perfect with these selections
as said at however AT 6:24 LucifroN also selects scv x 20 yet he has his CC selected in game
not his scv's at any time within that 4 seconds also to note when he selects his command center
it is rallied to his minerals and there is 19 scv's mining it including the mule however the scv he creates in the CC at this
time is the 20th scv, This leads me to believe sc2 gears counts how many scv are on the field the CC is rallied to and how many
is created and adds them to a selection command even though 20 scv's were not selected.
again check this with the timings EtherealDream had with those selections of scv's not being selected.
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15
if you check Spades clicks his command center and it is rallied to his minerals with 14 scv's mining
the scv built becomes the 15th even though he has only his command center selected same as LucifroN
again SC2 Gears is taking the action of selecting the command center to input the number of scv's on
the mineral field and any built as a selection command when it is not. this is importaint!
SC2 Gears can most absolutely not be used as it is not reliable program I am still researching this
but i wanted this posted because half a dozen people jumped on it as evidence without knowledge.
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On June 05 2012 17:31 ChrysaliS_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. I love how you keep posting in this thread but don't even attempt to try to defend yourself.
How exactly can someone defend himself? Assume he's innocent, what can he exactly say? "I didn't do it"? You can't go over every action you make in a game, because you cannot possibly remember the mindset you were in, the fears you had, the meta/mind games going on etc, so he can't even go over every action he made and be like "so this was done because..." A lot of the OPs suspision actions however is the OP just being a low leaguer and not understanding the game.
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On June 05 2012 17:20 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:16 IcedBacon wrote:On June 05 2012 17:11 dvorakftw wrote:On June 05 2012 16:52 IcedBacon wrote:
Spades sent out a worker but retrieved NO information from it. Except that he did. One refinery, not zero or two, and two buildings, not zero, or one, or three, and no bunker. See, this is my problem with these arguments. To say he "retrieved NO information from it" is simply 100% factually wrong. Top level players just don't play like that. When it's the early game and there isn't much to do, sure lets just look at only the minimap for information when I could simply look down at the map that's already been revealed and gather more information? You come into this thread with apparently poor SC2 game sense and no TL posts and try so hard to defend Spades. What? Can you tell me a reason, in the early game, why he would prefer to hack rather than look at information availeble to him? Because I can see no reason for him to do that, except the simple reason that it was a mistake. It's not like he didn't make a ton of mistakes in those games, lucky for him, so did Luci.
So proof that shows Spades is a hacker actually becomes proof that he isn't a hacker? Things don't really work that way. He never looks into the fog and somehow you twist that 180 degrees around?
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We wouldn't need threads like this if Blizzard had an active anti-cheat stance... just say'n....
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Whether Spades was using hacks during these games or not, the thing is, we, as a community, have to protect the community against map-hacking (and other cheats). Thus said, people should start looking at the problem as a global issue, not as a personal issue, sure, hackers should be punished, but speculating on one player's supsition won't change much. Together with Blizzard, the community should provide constructive feedback, opinions and possible solutions. Really, bashing one single person for 130 pages won't change much, recognise it as a global problem.
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Although I am not supporting the death threats in any shape or form, I can atleast rationalize why someone would send them. If he cheated/hacked me out of thousands of dollars, I would be pissed.
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On June 05 2012 17:38 GhostFiber wrote:
We wouldn't need threads like this if Blizzard had an active anti-cheat stance... just say'n....
This too. The recent paranoia caused by that has gotten to everyone.
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On June 05 2012 17:32 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:31 ChrysaliS_ wrote:On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. I love how you keep posting in this thread but don't even attempt to try to defend yourself. he did attempt it though
Before any of the better arguments were made. Seriously, just talk about the fog of war issue. Such a drastic difference between never being in it in those 7 games and the 50 recent ladder games he posted. Makes no sense.
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On June 05 2012 17:33 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:31 MLG_Wiggin wrote:I didn't want to post anything at all in this thread but... On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. Regardless of whether or not Spades is hacking, real life death threats are completely unacceptable. Have class, people. trolls gonna troll. there are always going to be idiots that do things like this. if i were spades i would just ignore these threats because they are baseless. most of these people threatening him probably dont even live in the united states let alone close to MLG.
Of course. There will always be idiots and trolls. I've just come to expect a lot from the SC2 community. I'm a guy who plays quite a few games, and the SC2 community (particularly on TL) is by far the best I've ever been a part of. So keep trying to figure out who is telling the truth here, but people need to understand that the things you say have consequences and the people you say them to are still human beings.
As far as Spades ignoring this thread or not, I don't know what would be best. I'm not his manager, and I'm not a PR guy. This is his reputation on the line here though, and to be quite frank trying to get paid as a progamer your reputation is everything. It would seem he has to defend himself. If the community believes he's hacking, who is going to pay him to play?
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On June 05 2012 17:36 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:20 Zarahtra wrote:On June 05 2012 17:16 IcedBacon wrote:On June 05 2012 17:11 dvorakftw wrote:On June 05 2012 16:52 IcedBacon wrote:
Spades sent out a worker but retrieved NO information from it. Except that he did. One refinery, not zero or two, and two buildings, not zero, or one, or three, and no bunker. See, this is my problem with these arguments. To say he "retrieved NO information from it" is simply 100% factually wrong. Top level players just don't play like that. When it's the early game and there isn't much to do, sure lets just look at only the minimap for information when I could simply look down at the map that's already been revealed and gather more information? You come into this thread with apparently poor SC2 game sense and no TL posts and try so hard to defend Spades. What? Can you tell me a reason, in the early game, why he would prefer to hack rather than look at information availeble to him? Because I can see no reason for him to do that, except the simple reason that it was a mistake. It's not like he didn't make a ton of mistakes in those games, lucky for him, so did Luci. So proof that shows Spades is a hacker actually becomes proof that he isn't a hacker? Things don't really work that way. He never looks into the fog and somehow you twist that 180 degrees around?
I'm not saying "he isn't a hacker", I'm saying there is no proof. That he didn't look at fog of war isn't a proof and certainly not something you can go "ohh he's clearly hacking" like many people say. The only possible proof that has come up, is the person talking about the SCV selection, but that needs to be followed up with to determine if that happens to other fast players.
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On June 05 2012 17:39 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:32 ROOTFayth wrote:On June 05 2012 17:31 ChrysaliS_ wrote:On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. I love how you keep posting in this thread but don't even attempt to try to defend yourself. he did attempt it though Before any of the better arguments were made. Seriously, just talk about the fog of war issue. Such a drastic difference between never being in it in those 7 games and the 50 recent ladder games he posted. Makes no sense.
yet people said he hacked to get to #1 GM when he got out of the reign house, but now he's not hacking in his ladder games?
doesn't make a whole lot of sense
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On June 05 2012 17:36 fraktoasters wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:20 Zarahtra wrote:On June 05 2012 17:16 IcedBacon wrote:On June 05 2012 17:11 dvorakftw wrote:On June 05 2012 16:52 IcedBacon wrote:
Spades sent out a worker but retrieved NO information from it. Except that he did. One refinery, not zero or two, and two buildings, not zero, or one, or three, and no bunker. See, this is my problem with these arguments. To say he "retrieved NO information from it" is simply 100% factually wrong. Top level players just don't play like that. When it's the early game and there isn't much to do, sure lets just look at only the minimap for information when I could simply look down at the map that's already been revealed and gather more information? You come into this thread with apparently poor SC2 game sense and no TL posts and try so hard to defend Spades. What? Can you tell me a reason, in the early game, why he would prefer to hack rather than look at information availeble to him? Because I can see no reason for him to do that, except the simple reason that it was a mistake. It's not like he didn't make a ton of mistakes in those games, lucky for him, so did Luci. So proof that shows Spades is a hacker actually becomes proof that he isn't a hacker? Things don't really work that way. He never looks into the fog and somehow you twist that 180 degrees around?
Statements like your's really bug me in this thread. He does look into the fog. "He never looks into the fog [...]" just proves to me that you haven't even bothered watching the replays and that you are here just to throw stones.
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Death threats is a serious matter. Report it to the police if you need.
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On June 05 2012 17:36 VonDarkmore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:25 Moonling wrote:On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557Edit - quick explanation of method. The camera lock sometimes doesn't just put no action. Instead it puts some fake actions in. Why it would do so I do not know. So, I looked for fake actions, which turned into a discovery of an action I believe to be physically impossible from a human using the interface.I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. What further investigation can be done to solidify this? Im very new to hearing of this program but it seems convincing. This post should be in OP so people know this research was done. ANTIGA SHIPYARD SC2 gears is not perfect with these selections as said at however AT 6:24 LucifroN also selects scv x 20 yet he has his CC selected in game not his scv's at any time within that 4 seconds also to note when he selects his command center it is rallied to his minerals and there is 19 scv's mining it including the mule however the scv he creates in the CC at this time is the 20th scv, This leads me to believe sc2 gears counts how many scv are on the field the CC is rallied to and how many is created and adds them to a selection command even though 20 scv's were not selected. again check this with the timings EtherealDream had with those selections of scv's not being selected. 11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all 11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 if you check Spades clicks his command center and it is rallied to his minerals with 14 scv's mining the scv built becomes the 15th even though he has only his command center selected same as LucifroN again SC2 Gears is taking the action of selecting the command center to input the number of scv's on the mineral field and any built as a selection command when it is not. this is importaint! SC2 Gears can most absolutely not be used as it is not reliable program I am still researching this but i wanted this posted because half a dozen people jumped on it as evidence without knowledge.
Ok, thanks that clears that up because quite a few people mentioned this as being concrete evidence.
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On June 05 2012 17:31 ChrysaliS_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 17:24 Spades wrote:
If you think I'm a hacker, that's your opinion. Be upset about it. If you think I'm not thats fine too. But i don't need to be getting email death threats of people saying they are going to kill me if i come to mlg. I'm sorry this all happened, I'm going to sleep, in time truth will prevail. I love how you keep posting in this thread but don't even attempt to try to defend yourself.
He tried, but even if he tried a hundred times, this community is to fucked up to actually require proof to fuel this insane witchhunt. Anything he says will just be used against him. Like he already stated the only way for people to believe him is if he had cameras on top of his head showing exactly what he's doing.
This whole debacle has only made me lose respect for people who seemed to be reasonable. It also ruined a possibly innocent players career. There's no way back for Spades. Good job people, hope you can sleep at night.
/repeat 1 month ago.
How about we email all sponsors involved with Spades!?
Sidenote: If I was in any kind of an executive position at any company. A community which has this nature is something I'd stay away from as far as possible.
Edit: Examining the SC2 Gears vs SC2 Replays by animating the Map view shows no difference in actions. No action is registered which isn't seen in the replay.
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On June 05 2012 17:12 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 16:42 EtherealDeath wrote:Here is a post on SC2SEA on a method that was used to catch a person using camera lock: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=99788&postcount=557I decided to try this analysis on Spade's replays. Now I could not find any combinations of the Hotkey 1,2,3 signature, so at first I thought it meant it cleared him. But then, I found something weird. Recall in the OP that Spades has a 8 second window of camera stoppage in in the Antiga game at 11:02. Here are the actions from 11:02 to 11:10. Yes I do have the default real time setting in SC2gears changed to game time. Initially I was puzzled by what it was telling me until I realized I needed to change this setting. + Show Spoiler +11:02 Spades Select Starport (103d0), Deselect all
11:02 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:03 Spades Train Siege Tank
11:03 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 4
11:04 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:05 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:06 Spades Train SCV
11:06 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102dc,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x11 (1029c,102a0,102a4,102ac,102d4,102f4,1035c,10430,1044c,104c4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Select SCV x4 (1029c,102a4,102d4,10574), Deselect all
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:07 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:08 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:09 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 3
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x14 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE x2 (104e4,10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5
11:10 Spades Select SCV x15 (102b0,10394,103c4,1040c,1041c,1043c,7045c,50464,10488,1048c,c049c,404a0,104c0,204d0,10544), MULE (10578), Deselect all
11:10 Spades Hotkey Select 5 Now I can see the hotkey switching in action, even when it is really fast. Of note is the scv selection deselection. This is also present at the beginning of the game but this is normal. This is simply dragging a box, selecting all the visible scvs, and then deselecting them by clicking somewhere on the ground. So, for a moment you will see a red circle around the selected scvs in the replay, before they are deselected. In fact you can see this happen all throughout early game, and this is normal. I cannot see the red circle at all in the interval from 11:02 to 11:10, corresponding to this selection/deselection. I have stared at a twenty second chunk at each base intently over and over. The huge time window is so that I don't have to worry about looking at the timer. I am only trying to see that red circle pop up around an scv to show that it was selected. I cannot see this even at the slowest replay speed. He is either selecting and then deselecting them faster than I can imagine or something else is at play. So at the moment I suspect that these hotkey selections and unit selection/deselection may be what a camera locking program is inserting as false actions. Either that, or something is wrong with SC2's replay storage, or somehow Spades can select/deselect faster than I can imagine. Why do the hotkey selections not disappear instantly you might ask? Well, the way the engine would interpret it is to keep the hotkey selection until another hotkey is pressed, or something else is done, so it cannot possible disappear in a flash. The instant unit select/deselection is thus the red flag to me. If someone can explain this instantaneous selection/deselection please do. All other evidence aside, I have a hard time believing that a camera lock is not in play given this. Also noticed the lack of selection markers. I think this is due to fast hands, I pulled a random replay (Lastshadow vs Lizzy on Antiga here) and watched Lizzy. SC2Gears states that at 19 seconds into the game Lizzy selects his 7 probes thrice while you can see the shadow only once.
My mistake; had sc2gears on the wrong time settings. Seems visible to me now
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EPT
