EPTFlash SC2 FPVOD - Page 62
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J.E.G.
United States389 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
BW is more zoomed in and the maps are smaller than they are in SC2. To give you a perspective, imagine a normal protoss deathball, only you can't see the entire ball because you're too zoomed in. Now imagine that the maps are smaller so that on the minimap that same army seems to take up twice the space it does now in SC2. Now give it a clunky UI so that it's impossible to move all the units at once giving the illusion that the army is more spread out. You want SC2 to look more like BW? Bring back the small maps. Add more chokes and ramps small enough to actually squeeze armies. Zoom in the camera a bit more. Viola! BW. It's like fighting in Kulas Ravine if it was the size of Steps of War. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On May 18 2012 23:20 quaffle wrote: Haha. Garmer, you made me laugh. Starcraft I and Starcraft II are different games. Meaning, they play differently than each other. Meaning Starcraft II is not Starcraft I with better graphics. If you do not like SC2, do not play it. @maybenexttime Flash is playing SC2 because KeSPA is "forcing" him to. Hopefully you can understand (just as Flash is), that all great things do come to an end. SC2 appeals to the masses and is a great game by itself. It has already gained more fame and furthered eSports more than SC:BW did. I see. So even though he says he's enjoying it, we shouldn't trust him because he's a lying greedy sack of shit that is only in it for the money and so is willing to play a game he hates just to get a paycheck. I mean for God's sake he's already a decrepit 19 year old--he's lost his chances at a future. Or... He enjoys playing both games and Kespa is moving in a different direction--but since that direction is still a game that he enjoys he is willing to stay instead of switching to a different career. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On May 18 2012 23:31 lorkac wrote: To those complaining about "balled armies" BW is more zoomed in and the maps are smaller than they are in SC2. To give you a perspective, imagine a normal protoss deathball, only you can't see the entire ball because you're too zoomed in. Now imagine that the maps are smaller so that on the minimap that same army seems to take up twice the space it does now in SC2. Now give it a clunky UI so that it's impossible to move all the units at once giving the illusion that the army is more spread out. You want SC2 to look more like BW? Bring back the small maps. Add more chokes and ramps small enough to actually squeeze armies. Zoom in the camera a bit more. Viola! BW. It's like fighting in Kulas Ravine if it was the size of Steps of War. Do you have any idea how BW is? | ||
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NexCa
Germany954 Posts
On May 18 2012 21:45 FlyingDike wrote: SC:BW is simply the greatest video game ever made. Give SC2 more time, it might catch up, it might not. Exactly my thoughts, this game is still pretty new, and we are getting 2 more expansion sets, so lets see what Blizzard has in store for us | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
Yes, I do. I've played it since 2000. Got hooked after I watched a replay of Boxer doing a TvT on Lost Temple. I'm not trying to argue about gameplay--I'm simply laying out the facts. The Maps are physically bigger in SC2. The Screen is also *literally* bigger in SC2. There's a reason the world looks flat when looking out a window but looks like a ball when looked at from the moon. Ramps and Chokes also meant something completely different in BW compared to SC2. In BW, holding the watchtowers in Tal Darim would be an AMAZING position that would be incredibly hard to break. 75% dodge chance, another 50% dodge chance if you're near the trees, plus the vision block problem? Blink stalkers alone would be able to hold off marauders in that situation. But in SC2 it's no different fighting at the watch tower and fighting in the middle of the map. Sure it's "more of a choke" and "the watch tower gives you a vision advantage" but the fact is that there isn't much of a difference between that area being a hill as opposed to that area being flat. So in BW, it wouldn't matter if the ramp was several screens in width--since it gave you an actual advantage, it still worked as a way to hold ground. In SC2, the only terrain modifier available is the choke. Tighten the choke and you tighten the defensive holds. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On May 19 2012 00:08 lorkac wrote: Yes, I do. I've played it since 2000. Got hooked after I watched a replay of Boxer doing a TvT on Lost Temple. I'm not trying to argue about gameplay--I'm simply laying out the facts. The Maps are physically bigger in SC2. The Screen is also *literally* bigger in SC2. There's a reason the world looks flat when looking out a window but looks like a ball when looked at from the moon. Ramps and Chokes also meant something completely different in BW compared to SC2. In BW, holding the watchtowers in Tal Darim would be an AMAZING position that would be incredibly hard to break. 75% dodge chance, another 50% dodge chance if you're near the trees, plus the vision block problem? Blink stalkers alone would be able to hold off marauders in that situation. But in SC2 it's no different fighting at the watch tower and fighting in the middle of the map. Sure it's "more of a choke" and "the watch tower gives you a vision advantage" but the fact is that there isn't much of a difference between that area being a hill as opposed to that area being flat. So in BW, it wouldn't matter if the ramp was several screens in width--since it gave you an actual advantage, it still worked as a way to hold ground. In SC2, the only terrain modifier available is the choke. Tighten the choke and you tighten the defensive holds. What..? I'm really confused. I don't remember anything awarding above 50% miss chance, and I don't remember trees affecting dodge at all. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On May 19 2012 00:28 PanN wrote: What..? I'm really confused. I don't remember anything awarding above 50% miss chance, and I don't remember trees affecting dodge at all. Doodads gave a 50% miss chance. I remember high ground giving a 70% miss chance--but I can't find any articles backing me up on it. But the consensus is that it's also a 50% miss chance. In either scenario, this made random hills in the middle of the map extremely important for positional play. | ||
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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FuRRyChoBo
United States218 Posts
On May 19 2012 00:47 Lore-Fighting wrote: We can't even compare sc2 and BW unitl and expo is released. Wait for Heart of the Swarm! i really wish people would stop saying this. it seriously makes zero sense | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1572 Posts
On May 18 2012 21:40 maybenexttime wrote: Fixed that for you. His points are mostly valid and they have been talked about to death. There were several TLFE's (?) about them, not to mention many good players talked about those issues since beta. Really? Flash is good mainly because of the race he plays? That's why he was able to beat progamers while off-racing as Protoss (before the mixed league farce) vs. their main race, right? Any progamer can beat an other progamer off racing, it's not like it's a miracle, that doesn't mean you're gonna win the starleague :/ And if it was possible, we would have seen something like that already, if terrans have been dominating bw for a long time, it's no surprise, siege tank = gg turtle, and that's what flash has been doing all along ;/ if flash would have been zerg or protoss and win that much i would have an other statement, but it ain't happening. Nada, oov, Flash, it's siege tank turtle fiesta. | ||
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
On May 18 2012 20:57 lain2501 wrote: Also I want to point out that Flash is good at bw mainly because of the race he's playing, which is Terran, and terran = turtle = siege tank > your favorite player ok? if he can do the same thing at sc2 then there is high chances he becomes the best. This statement is just plain wrong. Firstly, Flash is not simply good because his race was good at turtling, but because he simply is better than everybody else at lamost every aspect of the game. He is good at turtling and making mech work extremely efficiently, but he could also turn up the heat and hammer his opponent down with wave after wave of costefficient troops. Add on top of all that pinpoint precise micro and incredible macro, and I don't see exactly why you believe he just turtled and only won because of siege tanks. On May 18 2012 23:20 quaffle wrote: @maybenexttime Flash is playing SC2 because KeSPA is "forcing" him to. Hopefully you can understand (just as Flash is), that all great things do come to an end. SC2 appeals to the masses and is a great game by itself. It has already gained more fame and furthered eSports more than SC:BW did. First of all, nobody is forcing him to do it, and it has been reported that he is enjoying it. Now, you don't seem to understand exactly what BW did for eSports. Not only did it lay the foundation for everything you think SC2 did. Without the shining example South Korea and BW was for eSports we would still only have annual small events and a proscene extremely small compared to what we have today. BW was what made eSports happen in Korea. It was the catalyst that sparked the development that still goes on today. When the OSLs had maximum attendance it was no laughing matter to compare the live crowd to that of the Superbowl. Just so we are clear here, I have nothing against Flash playing SC2, maybe some of the BW pros can even break the mold with some really nice strategies and games, but just try to acknowledge why you even get to play SC2, okay? | ||
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Diizzy
United States828 Posts
On May 19 2012 01:44 FuRRyChoBo wrote: i really wish people would stop saying this. it seriously makes zero sense actually it does. remember starcraft vanilla? there's a video somewhere showing complete unbalance. then came broodwar which made everything balance. | ||
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Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
On May 12 2012 01:31 GTR wrote: ![[image loading]](http://bbs.gamechosun.co.kr/wlwl_upload/dataroom/star2/2012/05/451561_1336713581.jpg) this is why i'm watching SC2 | ||
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kade
94 Posts
On May 18 2012 23:20 quaffle wrote: SC2 appeals to the masses and is a great game by itself. It has already gained more fame and furthered eSports more than SC:BW did. Tell me about the flourishing "eSports" scene in South Korea before BW. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On May 18 2012 23:31 lorkac wrote: To those complaining about "balled armies" BW is more zoomed in and the maps are smaller than they are in SC2. To give you a perspective, imagine a normal protoss deathball, only you can't see the entire ball because you're too zoomed in. Now imagine that the maps are smaller so that on the minimap that same army seems to take up twice the space it does now in SC2. Now give it a clunky UI so that it's impossible to move all the units at once giving the illusion that the army is more spread out. You want SC2 to look more like BW? Bring back the small maps. Add more chokes and ramps small enough to actually squeeze armies. Zoom in the camera a bit more. Viola! BW. It's like fighting in Kulas Ravine if it was the size of Steps of War. You can't see the army because it's more spread out. Why is the army spread out? Because of the limit on how many units you can choose. There is no illusion there and you have not played more than handful of BW games. Go be stupid somewhere else. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On May 15 2012 06:16 beatitudes wrote: watch at 12:30 flash finds the marauder that the single colo is firing on and pulls it out of his bio ball to avoid splash damage ^_^ WOW pretty cool. | ||
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On May 18 2012 20:33 Garmer wrote: "sc:bw best game ever" yeah it is let me tanslate this for you SC2 is perfect and do not need any change people like you are why this game is so bad but i stop here, we are off-topic.. I guess you also wouldn't like it if somebody posted in the BW forum about BW beeing broken (For example ZvZ coinflip opening and muta every game) and how you need to fix it by introducing SC2 features. | ||
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we also need to get rid of emotions such as pride honnor, ego, those things block you from improvement.
