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On May 11 2012 10:19 wheelchairs wrote:
i dont understand why everyone is whining about this queen change. Obviously blizzard sees a zerg weakness and is wanting to fix it. Imo they want zergs to be able to spread creep and take 3rd more effectively. Blizzard has always said that zerg is a race expected to need to run off more bases than thier opponent. FE w/ reactor hellions allows terran 2 base while denying zergs 3rd base on some maps, making it 2v2 bases, which is bad for zerg, they obviously didn't want this abuse happening anymore, and zerg is weak right now in the pro scene anyway so who cares?
I play terran and I'm looking forward to it because 80% of pro tvz i watch is reactor hellion expands, this will at least change things up hopefully and make zergs able to defend them better.
Plus queens are very slow and do minimal damage, so why is a range increase that big of a deal. They want queens to be more effective in early battles, and zerg needs it.
Well, I guess ANY rational discussion that would shed the most remote of negative light upon a balance change is whining. Excellent preface. Blizzard sees a weakness and has shown their balance patches have been questionable. It's easy to tunnel vision and view this patch in the short term as directly removing a few pressure builds without considering it's impacts on the overall metagame.
I only see Zerg fast expand 80% of the time when I watch pro ZvT, therefore, rocks should be introduced into all naturals.
Since when did Queens need to move out into the middle of the map off creep? None of this is even relevant.
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Well.. While I agree with the overlord speed change, its kinda impossible to sneak a probe into a zergs main now once they get a queen at their natural. Not sure if it's gonna be a huge problem, but I do like to check for gas timings.
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On May 11 2012 10:43 RaNgeD wrote:
Well.. While I agree with the overlord speed change, its kinda impossible to sneak a probe into a zergs main now once they get a queen at their natural. Not sure if it's gonna be a huge problem, but I do like to check for gas timings.
I agree, hate not being able to scout pass queen now 
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On May 11 2012 10:35 Fencer710 wrote:
;___; all the changes went through, and talon attack is gone.
goodbye effective pressure expands, hello marine/tank 2base timings.
Queen range is stopping you from taking an expand? Queen range stopping you from killing creep tumors? Everyone's acting like mass queens will be the new strat. The terrans in this thread are crazy lol.
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On May 11 2012 10:50 VTPerfect wrote:
pvz even worse now ;(
how is it worse?
the patch does not even affect pvz...
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United States97276 Posts
Bunker not changed? These have to be fake 
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Zergs have been struggling a LONG time. They always struggle with something.
The queen buff is supposed to help the Zerg out vs cheesy bunkerrushes, hellions kiting around for years etc. Sometimes (alot of times...) when this occurs it's a less skilled player that plays Terran and a stronger player that plays Zerg and thanks to the easy control of hellions, etc and weak earlygame units the Zerg has the worse player goes out as a winner..in this case a pretty bad T player could take a game vs a very good Z player WAY easier than a weak Z player could take a game from a stronger T player. And thats simply a fact, we all know it, it's taboo to talk about but Im getting quite tired of it. It is harder to survive as a Zerg than attacking as a Terran all the time.
They buff the queen to prevent worse players to win simply by imbalance or at least even it out a bit.. The bunkerrushes are almost free and the hellion harass can end up winning the entire game, and if the hellion harass fails u dont have a problem coming back into the game (compared to a failed banlingbust that in 99% of the cases is a certain loss for a Zerg). Those kind of cheesy openings takes less skill and they could win you a game which is in fact just wrong. None can deny that.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:40 Zombo Joe wrote:If this change stays I forsee Terrans going back to 1-2 base allins every game vs Zerg which is the opposite this patch is trying to accomplish lmao. Faster Obs build time is completely unneeded. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:39 Zelniq wrote:a couple of posts from the last couple pages: On May 11 2012 10:07 TuElite wrote:
Well, this patch killed SC2 for me as a Terran player. Calling it quit and moving on.
I can't believe the balance guys are that stupid. Good thing there's no Zergs left in GSL, would have been an auto-win. On May 11 2012 07:11 TeeTS wrote:
I think people don't get the main point here. the Queen as unit is becoming way too powerful. A queen has a lot of hp, is neither armored nor light, so NOTHING gets additional dmg against them. They can heal, larva inject and spread creep. They have a good air attack. The only thing they didn't have was a useful ground attack. With range 5 they got it now. The unit is way to versatile for a tier 1 minerals only unit. I see massing queen becoming a viable strat, both in early and in lategame. In the early game the unit is way too powerful against zerglings and marines now. (zealots will not suffer that much, since their armor of 1 helps out alot!). In the lategame they heal those high HP endgame units like Broodlords and Ultralisks. It's becoming like a nobrainer now, more queens = better (against Terran and Zerg). This patch is just fucking up the game. I wouldn't believe it's true, but blizzard fucked up quite a bit lately. On May 11 2012 06:47 bObA wrote:On May 11 2012 06:26 Affluenza wrote:On May 11 2012 06:18 bObA wrote:
yea ghosts banshees reapers helions are useless so you can cancel them blizzard...
And wtf when you write : bunker not changed ???? did you want to increase building time from 40 to 60s ? ??? Or half life points ???
I think you should cancel bunker, terran will have only barrack supply factories to make tanks and marines.
But dont forget to nerf siege mode like 300 300 and half damage and nerf marine to 20 life points and decrease dps too cause too imba....
Nothing about tvp late game but these STUPID zerg and toss buffs...
I will stop to play cause I tried to play zerg and toss but I liked terran. but with ALL the fuck.... nerfes terran sucks too much now and we havent any option in early game now and too weak in end game... I think I will stop.... thanks for all the time I lost to play and try to get better ( i am 1v1 top master in terran ) cause I am about to stop sc2....
I am disapointed and sad.... too much is too much....
Classic QQ... You will continue to play SC2 and you will buy HotS and enjoy SC2 even more... I dont think so. It is the first time I tell that but now it's the last straw that broke the camel's back.... my 1v1 rank : http://sc2ranks.com/team/17486483 people certainly don't overreact to minor changes. and certainly if you lose now the reason is probably because blizzard hates you. not because of anything you did, you're amazing and the game needed no changes, they already achieved perfect balance! god it's such a pain to make adjustments to your play, like not go overlord hunting, or not be overaggressive with hellions. in fact hellions are completely useless now, just like reapers, bunker rushes, and marines. and attacking. zerg is immune to attacking dont attack zerg Last game I did a hellion runby against a horrible Zerg opponent, but the Queens which were out of position at the time fucking wrecked it because 5 range lets them cover every angle. If he makes a crucial mistake why is he not punished for it anymore? Its the same as me leaving my depot wall down and letting lings in, except I lose most of my SCVs and but he loses 4 drones.
Because in a standard TvZ a hellion runby would come around 7 minutes or so, where a ling runby would come later then that usually at a time when you have tanks. If you don't have tanks almost every terran has a bunker + their hellions....so all this change means in regards to hellions is that you can't divebomb drones hoping for a game ending advantage.
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I propose we introduce a system, whereby every time someone says they will stop playing because of X, that they're username gets flagged so that when they continue to post days and months afterwards, we can all laugh at them.
Anyone want to create a 'I'm quitting' hall of fame?
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Everyone says this is bad for Terran, but as a Terran player myself, i kinda like it, love to be a "underdog".. :----)
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On May 11 2012 10:48 BandonBanshee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:35 Fencer710 wrote:
;___; all the changes went through, and talon attack is gone.
goodbye effective pressure expands, hello marine/tank 2base timings. Queen range is stopping you from taking an expand? Queen range stopping you from killing creep tumors? Everyone's acting like mass queens will be the new strat. The terrans in this thread are crazy lol.
He means pressuring the Zerg expansion via either 2rax, reapers, or zealot pressure.
Also, yes, Queen range definitely stops you from killing creep tumors. It already did prepatch. It's just amplified now.
On May 11 2012 10:53 neoghaleon55 wrote:how is it worse? the patch does not even affect pvz...
Overlord scouting is better, which would affect ZvP more than ZvT, although I can't say this is a bad thing. However, Queens will most definitely stop probe scouts much easier now, as well as be able to fend off any Zealot pressure from a non Forge FE build.
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awesome guys they didnt nerf terran this time, and the buffs protoss and zerg got were way less overpowering than all the other patches!!! terrans gather here to celebr8! 
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Thank you blizzard for making me hate playing this game... Now I can move on with my life.... This is not a troll post, I'm being serious
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Please, rename topic name to "Patch 1.4.3.2" (just delete "soonish")
Thank you blizzard for making me hate playing this game... Now I can move on with my life.... This is not a troll post, I'm being serious
Now you can leave into Diablo III, eh?
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On May 11 2012 11:20 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:48 BandonBanshee wrote:On May 11 2012 10:35 Fencer710 wrote:
;___; all the changes went through, and talon attack is gone.
goodbye effective pressure expands, hello marine/tank 2base timings. Queen range is stopping you from taking an expand? Queen range stopping you from killing creep tumors? Everyone's acting like mass queens will be the new strat. The terrans in this thread are crazy lol. He means pressuring the Zerg expansion via either 2rax, reapers, or zealot pressure. Also, yes, Queen range definitely stops you from killing creep tumors. It already did prepatch. It's just amplified now. Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:53 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 11 2012 10:50 VTPerfect wrote:
pvz even worse now ;( how is it worse? the patch does not even affect pvz... Overlord scouting is better, which would affect ZvP more than ZvT, although I can't say this is a bad thing. However, Queens will most definitely stop probe scouts much easier now, as well as be able to fend off any Zealot pressure from a non Forge FE build.
You can still 2 rax, bunkers go down before queens come out and even then its like 1 queen. Reapers I can see ya, you just have to use more misdirection and trickery now if your using a reaper still not impossible though. Now about queens stopping the killing of creep tumors, most zergs only have like 4 queens max at that point in the game. You can still kill creep tumors just as effectively but your hellions will take a hit.
I think it will be a nice early game battle back and forth between a couple queens and hellions which requires control from both players. I cant tell you how many times iv'e seen a terran patrol 4-6 hellions at the bottom of my ramp and not check them for minutes at a time.
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On May 11 2012 11:43 BandonBanshee wrote:
I think it will be a nice early game battle back and forth between a couple queens and hellions which requires control from both players. I cant tell you how many times iv'e seen a terran patrol 4-6 hellions at the bottom of my ramp and not check them for minutes at a time.
Move a spine crawler out, that's on you. You aren't entitled to creep spread either.
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On May 11 2012 10:53 neoghaleon55 wrote:how is it worse? the patch does not even affect pvz...
cause,
you want to 4 gate pressure after ffe? he'll scout that a lot easier now.
you want to scout his main base for gas to see if he's all ining you? nope queen range. also I always pressure with a few gateway units after FFE which will be a lot easier to hold off with queens now.
thats why
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On May 11 2012 12:00 -Exalt- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 10:53 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 11 2012 10:50 VTPerfect wrote:
pvz even worse now ;( how is it worse? the patch does not even affect pvz... cause, you want to 4 gate pressure after ffe? he'll scout that a lot easier now. you want to scout his main base for gas too see if he's all ining you? nope queen range thats why
this overlord change really wasnt made for zvp scouting. you get the information if you want in zvp, but not in zvt
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ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
