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On May 11 2012 13:11 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity. Do you have any proof of this? Unless you do, I am saying that you are bashing him for no reason other than being annoyed. Honestly, it was not like the maps weren't small in the release and had hard to take thirds anyway that had effected it. Furthermore, it is not like people were even using their races macro mechanics (well maybe not for terran, because terrans macro mechanics isn't the most complicated one to use nor it is challenging either) to the fullest. I still remember how some players thought creep spread being useless. Even on moderately big maps like Lost Temple.
I'm platinum league and still 4 hellion openers are a rarity. I mostly just play against Terrans that seem to be doing the same thing they've always done. Make a bunch of marines (and maybe marauders) before pushing. Its laughable. Their doing the same thing they could get away with before because of imbalances...but now their strats have been nerfed because they were ridiculously one dimensional and overpowered. If his win percentage keeps dropping and he's complaining because of nerfs that the community generally has come to a consensus that they were fair, then its probably because he's really just being entitled.
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Finally Zerg can fend off reapers...i think there is a unit called reaper...right? You know, the flying marine, which gave roaches more range...
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On May 11 2012 13:30 People_0f_Color wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 13:11 Mehukannu wrote:On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity. Do you have any proof of this? Unless you do, I am saying that you are bashing him for no reason other than being annoyed. Honestly, it was not like the maps weren't small in the release and had hard to take thirds anyway that had effected it. Furthermore, it is not like people were even using their races macro mechanics (well maybe not for terran, because terrans macro mechanics isn't the most complicated one to use nor it is challenging either) to the fullest. I still remember how some players thought creep spread being useless. Even on moderately big maps like Lost Temple. I'm platinum league and still 4 hellion openers are a rarity. I mostly just play against Terrans that seem to be doing the same thing they've always done. Make a bunch of marines (and maybe marauders) before pushing. Its laughable. Their doing the same thing they could get away with before because of imbalances...but now their strats have been nerfed because they were ridiculously one dimensional and overpowered. If his win percentage keeps dropping and he's complaining because of nerfs that the community generally has come to a consensus that they were fair, then its probably because he's really just being entitled.
Cute generalization, especially coming from a platinum player. In Masters league, Terran players are up to date on builds, and are skilled with multitasking and macro, yet we still lose because we are forced into aggressive early game builds that only get worse and worse as players adapt, and nerfs continue to come.
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Terran
* Bunker is not changed
lol'd. Absolutely brilliant hahaha.
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On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity.
how about looking at the fucking winpercentages and terrandrain in the ladder? its 55% PvT in us/eu and 50% tvz. hence if you are toss you are carried by your race atm and if you are terran you are undervalued. also every race agrees that terran is the easiest to beat, there was a poll for that theme. just about every indicator points to "playing as terran on the ladder sucks" and that should be something that blizz should avoid.
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I played today and absolutely loved the overlord speed. It not only helps in zvt, but in zvz, it allows you to see early ling play sooner and prepared faster. Cant say much about the queens cause i usually use those for injecting and not fighting.
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Masters league is more like the "starting to resemble somewhat competent players" league. Its certainly not players who have a deep understanding of the game and have mechanics down-pat like you make it sound like. Even GM is discredited because of all the anomalous players who can reach it with just 1 build that exploits weird timings or a serious cheese/all-in. Below Code B pro-level, everyone is still a complete rookie.
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On May 11 2012 13:55 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity. how about looking at the fucking winpercentages and terrandrain in the ladder? its 55% PvT in us/eu and 50% tvz. hence if you are toss you are carried by your race atm and if you are terran you are undervalued. also every race agrees that terran is the easiest to beat, there was a poll for that theme. just about every indicator points to "playing as terran on the ladder sucks" and that should be something that blizz should avoid.
Terran is the easiest to beat? Id love to see that poll beaucse I thought there was a general consensus that Zerg had the hardest time on ladder becuse of all the possible all-ins they can lose to.
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Its pretty clear that Terran players which relied on early hard to scout allins, AKA one-trick-pony players will face allot of problems now. at least 8 Terrans I know which *only* made this kinds of tactics every time I played are now losing ALLOT against zergs according to their game history.
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On May 11 2012 13:58 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 13:55 Greenei wrote:On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity. how about looking at the fucking winpercentages and terrandrain in the ladder? its 55% PvT in us/eu and 50% tvz. hence if you are toss you are carried by your race atm and if you are terran you are undervalued. also every race agrees that terran is the easiest to beat, there was a poll for that theme. just about every indicator points to "playing as terran on the ladder sucks" and that should be something that blizz should avoid. Terran is the easiest to beat? Id love to see that poll beaucse I thought there was a general consensus that Zerg had the hardest time on ladder becuse of all the possible all-ins they can lose to.
here you go:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=313466
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From a company-wide perspective, this is kinda brilliant for Blizzard.
The buffs to Z and P scouting really hurt the casual players who are most likely to play Terran and rely on all-ins.
That means a number of them are going to quickly get frustrated with the game and either quit or take a break... just in time to pick up Diablo 3. 
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On May 11 2012 14:04 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 13:58 Letall wrote:On May 11 2012 13:55 Greenei wrote:On May 11 2012 12:56 Jermstuddog wrote:On May 11 2012 12:45 tomrh3 wrote:On May 11 2012 12:12 sCCrooked wrote:
ITT:
-Whiney inadequate Terrans who are so bad they can't tell this isn't a major adjustment
-Whiney inadequate Protoss who think this somehow affects their matchup vs Z at all.
Seriously this is pathetic. Its not that major of a change or else we'd have seen tons of examples of proof already from the top players who are the only ones who know enough to be qualified to talk about balance. I can talk about balance all I want - my play has decreased dramatically over past 7 month or so as terrans continue to get nerfed every patch. Imagine having a 50% winrate, whatever your skill level, then having your race get nerfed every single patch so that the game gets much harder for you and you just lose and lose. It really isn't much fun, and I think it's obvious when you see the huge dropoff in the amount of terrans on the ladder. These minor adjustments will affect the different leagues in different ways... if MVP still crushes soul I could care less. Imagine if you were being carried by your OP race to begin with and as they nerf them down to balanced levels, you come to realize that you actually suck at the game, much like people have been telling you all along. You are, in fact, undeserving of the former rank you had. QQ more. Playing an OP race does not entitle you to continue being OP for eternity. how about looking at the fucking winpercentages and terrandrain in the ladder? its 55% PvT in us/eu and 50% tvz. hence if you are toss you are carried by your race atm and if you are terran you are undervalued. also every race agrees that terran is the easiest to beat, there was a poll for that theme. just about every indicator points to "playing as terran on the ladder sucks" and that should be something that blizz should avoid. Terran is the easiest to beat? Id love to see that poll beaucse I thought there was a general consensus that Zerg had the hardest time on ladder becuse of all the possible all-ins they can lose to. here you go: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=313466
That's a horrible poll from n00b players with barely even 100 votes happening in any of the categories yet you're generalizing for a player base that's close to a million people. Good logic there.
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On May 11 2012 11:43 BandonBanshee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 11:20 FabledIntegral wrote:On May 11 2012 10:48 BandonBanshee wrote:On May 11 2012 10:35 Fencer710 wrote:
;___; all the changes went through, and talon attack is gone.
goodbye effective pressure expands, hello marine/tank 2base timings. Queen range is stopping you from taking an expand? Queen range stopping you from killing creep tumors? Everyone's acting like mass queens will be the new strat. The terrans in this thread are crazy lol. He means pressuring the Zerg expansion via either 2rax, reapers, or zealot pressure. Also, yes, Queen range definitely stops you from killing creep tumors. It already did prepatch. It's just amplified now. On May 11 2012 10:53 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 11 2012 10:50 VTPerfect wrote:
pvz even worse now ;( how is it worse? the patch does not even affect pvz... Overlord scouting is better, which would affect ZvP more than ZvT, although I can't say this is a bad thing. However, Queens will most definitely stop probe scouts much easier now, as well as be able to fend off any Zealot pressure from a non Forge FE build. You can still 2 rax, bunkers go down before queens come out and even then its like 1 queen. Reapers I can see ya, you just have to use more misdirection and trickery now if your using a reaper still not impossible though. Now about queens stopping the killing of creep tumors, most zergs only have like 4 queens max at that point in the game. You can still kill creep tumors just as effectively but your hellions will take a hit. I think it will be a nice early game battle back and forth between a couple queens and hellions which requires control from both players. I cant tell you how many times iv'e seen a terran patrol 4-6 hellions at the bottom of my ramp and not check them for minutes at a time.
It doesn't only have to do with Queen vs SCV, but more importantly, Queen vs marine. When you have slowlings, you rely on queens to prevent marines from doing a ton of damage until you get that spine up. And once you get that spine up, as is, the marines can at least contain creep temporarily. You can no longer do so.
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On May 11 2012 13:56 sCCrooked wrote:
Masters league is more like the "starting to resemble somewhat competent players" league. Its certainly not players who have a deep understanding of the game and have mechanics down-pat like you make it sound like. Even GM is discredited because of all the anomalous players who can reach it with just 1 build that exploits weird timings or a serious cheese/all-in. Below Code B pro-level, everyone is still a complete rookie.
Have to echo this. You even see players who are on teams consistently make poor decisions or severely slip up on their macro.
I'm in masters with decent apm and don't have a clue when weighed against actual good players.
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On May 11 2012 13:56 sCCrooked wrote:
Masters league is more like the "starting to resemble somewhat competent players" league. Its certainly not players who have a deep understanding of the game and have mechanics down-pat like you make it sound like. Even GM is discredited because of all the anomalous players who can reach it with just 1 build that exploits weird timings or a serious cheese/all-in. Below Code B pro-level, everyone is still a complete rookie.
Then by your logic the observer and queen changes make absolutely no sense. Just like everyone here is saying. P is obviously not having major scouting/detection issues. Z obviously can handle the standard TvZ hellion opening.
These two changes are absolutely, mindblowingly stupid because no one in Masters, GM, Code B, Code A, or Code S is having trouble with what they are supposed to 'fix'.
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Just like some people have been saying and me of course, just leave Terran to the real men (Thorzain) and Koreans.
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On May 11 2012 12:51 xUnSeEnx wrote:
I will not play sc2 anymore until Dustin Browder is fired... He is truly ruining this game. (AKA unnecessary buffs, protoss is op now, and this game is getting harder and harder for terran players)
Well non-Terran races have fun not changing your style of play ever in any patch. Terrans back to the drawing board, gotta come up with something not all-in ish and aggressive or gg every game.
k good bye, no one will miss another generic whining terran who thinks protoss is OP. just a dime a dozen, and a really annoying dozen.
when will people learn the game is balanced around the pro-level and in the pro-level terrans are doing just fine. they're not going to balance the game to make it easier for you in your plat league cause you lack skill. that would be a terrible and casual way to design a competitive game.
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I absolutely love all the T QQ in this thread. Dem Terran tears 
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On May 11 2012 14:28 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 13:56 sCCrooked wrote:
Masters league is more like the "starting to resemble somewhat competent players" league. Its certainly not players who have a deep understanding of the game and have mechanics down-pat like you make it sound like. Even GM is discredited because of all the anomalous players who can reach it with just 1 build that exploits weird timings or a serious cheese/all-in. Below Code B pro-level, everyone is still a complete rookie. Then by your logic the observer and queen changes make absolutely no sense. Just like everyone here is saying. P is obviously not having major scouting/detection issues. Z obviously can handle the standard TvZ hellion opening. These two changes are absolutely, mindblowingly stupid because no one in Masters, GM, Code B, Code A, or Code S is having trouble with what they are supposed to 'fix'.
We weren't begging for this queen buff and I'm sure the P weren't begging for the observer buff but regardless of if we asked for them or not, they're not game-breaking as the whiners would have everyone think (most not even being GM and thus the problem lies in their mechanics not the game). The sky isn't falling and if these changes really do prove to be THAT horrible and awful, they'll get reverted soon. No matter how you look at it, no reason to act like the world is ending.
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On May 11 2012 14:40 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 14:28 oxxo wrote:On May 11 2012 13:56 sCCrooked wrote:
Masters league is more like the "starting to resemble somewhat competent players" league. Its certainly not players who have a deep understanding of the game and have mechanics down-pat like you make it sound like. Even GM is discredited because of all the anomalous players who can reach it with just 1 build that exploits weird timings or a serious cheese/all-in. Below Code B pro-level, everyone is still a complete rookie. Then by your logic the observer and queen changes make absolutely no sense. Just like everyone here is saying. P is obviously not having major scouting/detection issues. Z obviously can handle the standard TvZ hellion opening. These two changes are absolutely, mindblowingly stupid because no one in Masters, GM, Code B, Code A, or Code S is having trouble with what they are supposed to 'fix'. We weren't begging for this queen buff and I'm sure the P weren't begging for the observer buff but regardless of if we asked for them or not, they're not game-breaking as the whiners would have everyone think (most not even being GM and thus the problem lies in their mechanics not the game). The sky isn't falling and if these changes really do prove to be THAT horrible and awful, they'll get reverted soon. No matter how you look at it, no reason to act like the world is ending.
You'd have thought the patch made roach range 12 and observers build in 6 seconds. These are helpful tweaks but I bet if they instituted this patch and didn't even tell everyone there is a large percent of people complaining that wouldn't even realize the patch went in and it would literally leave their games unchanged.
I've played a lot of custom games lately and there is no way someone plat or below will be affected by this at all.
All this did to me was add a bit more skill to the game. OL scouting is now more of an art because you can really get OL's in good spots quicker and get into bases better. Denying OL scouting and hiding tech is now more important.
Helion vs. creep is now a situation where you'll see better micro battles. It is still very possible to deny creep, just can't be done with shitty micro as before, and with good micro from the zerg you can actually fight back instead of just sitting there screwed.
There have been way more significant patches that have not broken the game then this, not sure why people are acting like blizzard gave zergs an easy win card. It isn't like mass queens are going to be all the rage on ladder.
I also hate when people argue on behalf of the pros. They are pros for a reason, they don't let patches or changes ruin them for life. They adapt, they are smart, they figure it out. In the history of SC, BW, and SC2 the game has always been figured out eventually. People are smarter than patches.
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EPT
