On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote: if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!"
Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution
mothership does not beat bl infestor.
really? what's all this archon toilet business then?
If you're actually curious, bl infestor will beat any protoss composition. not only that, if he simply doesn't attack, spreads creep, and pumps spines, he will lose maybe 1 or 2 or 3 broodlords in a trade for P's entire army.
As for the archon toilet, it's only smashes a Z army if Z makes a tremendous mistake -- clumping BLs. Bls are big, so they're easy to click and spread, and they're slow, so they don't clump quickly. Also, they're so effective with spines you often don't need to move. So, preventing BL clumping is very easy. Now vortex is an effective spell -- but it still won't let P's max beat Z's max. Or even come close to it.
On May 04 2012 10:51 KimJongChill wrote: Why....the queen ground buff doesnt make any sense to me...why not just decrease spine crawler build time or sthing?
Apparently they have stated that would cause ZvZ spine crawler rushes to be broken lol.
Hmm, well I like that the extra creep spread is gone, because it seemed like that was going to lower stargate play to nothing. (it will still be less effective than it used it be) The extra queen range is kinda cool, I like queens and this will make them a lot more versatile.
I am still a bit bothered at how Terran seems to get the short end of the stick. Buff ravens? or HSM? Buff hellions damage to non-light? I mean, I know they were talking about this patch being relatively minor, but the queen change will entirely change the TvZ early game dynamic, where terran really needs to apply pressure to have a chance.
And to all the whining terran who seemed to have missed the point. Terrans advantage early is something you have to leverage to get to even footing late game. Blizzard never said you have to win early, just glean an advantage, if you don't have the skill to do that, switch races.
On May 04 2012 10:53 SolidZeal wrote: Hmm, well I like that the extra creep spread is gone, because it seemed like that was going to lower stargate play to nothing. (it will still be less effective than it used it be) The extra queen range is kinda cool, I like queens and this will make them a lot more versatile.
I am still a bit bothered at how Terran seems to get the short end of the stick. Buff ravens? or HSM? Buff hellions damage to non-light? I mean, I know they were talking about this patch being relatively minor, but the queen change will entirely change the TvZ early game dynamic, where terran really needs to apply pressure to have a chance.
And to all the whining terran who seemed to have missed the point. Terrans advantage early is something you have to leverage to get to even footing late game. Blizzard never said you have to win early, just glean an advantage, if you don't have the skill to do that, switch races.
Alot of the Maps that are currently used make it hard on some almost impossible to do so though. If thats the Maps they want us to use adjust the game accordingly. On smaller/medium sized Map its very possible but there aren't that many of those left.
On May 04 2012 10:51 KimJongChill wrote: Why....the queen ground buff doesnt make any sense to me...why not just decrease spine crawler build time or sthing?
Apparently they have stated that would cause ZvZ spine crawler rushes to be broken lol.
They've said that, really? Can't they just put in an additional build time on enemy creep? I'm not a programmer, but it doesn't seem like something that'd be impossible to do, no? :/
OMG I want the queen range. I'm sorry but that sounds incredibly good because I'm a 2v2 player who uses a lot of queens in the early game. This would make my already sick defenses even sicker. Come at me double 4gates! I have 5-range queens. That's longer range than a roach. I'm just going to go mass queen all day long. So sick.
On May 04 2012 10:51 KimJongChill wrote: Why....the queen ground buff doesnt make any sense to me...why not just decrease spine crawler build time or sthing?
Uh... that sounds like it would allow zerg is just play absurdly greedy. Like all drones - see MM move out - make spines.
On May 04 2012 10:51 KimJongChill wrote: Why....the queen ground buff doesnt make any sense to me...why not just decrease spine crawler build time or sthing?
Apparently they have stated that would cause ZvZ spine crawler rushes to be broken lol.
They've said that, really? Can't they just put in an additional build time on enemy creep? I'm not a programmer, but it doesn't seem like something that'd be impossible to do, no? :/
Creep is neutral. There's no such thing as ennemy creep.
On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote: if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!"
Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution
mothership does not beat bl infestor.
really? what's all this archon toilet business then?
Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason.
It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it.
Did you not watch Stephano lose late game to hero with infestor/bl/spine vs mothership on MCSL? Mothership is great against Zerg. You don't need to hit every single broodlord and oneshot them with an archon toilet to win a fight with it.
Oh no! Now our 50 minerals marines won't be able to kite the 150 minerals marines!
We now may take a few hits and lose those irreplaceable marines!
Haha, oh you guys at least go with the Reaper\Hellion argument. When I play Zerg if I have my Queens fighting against Marines with no Zergling support I know that I am in deep trouble.
Queen change seems weird, Hellions will still be useful because ... well lets not pretend the Queen is going to be killing the fast. Reapers will be even more useless than before. I'd actually want to see if the Reaper speed upgrade could be brought back with the new Queen
On May 04 2012 10:59 Hokay wrote: I don't like the Queen range buff especially when my probe already almost always dies when trying to scout for gas or a roach warren ~_~
Only speaking from that matchup pov
Send 2 probes? Like Zerg send one 100minerals overlord?
On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote: if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!"
Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution
mothership does not beat bl infestor.
really? what's all this archon toilet business then?
Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason.
It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it.
On May 04 2012 10:57 DoubleReed wrote: OMG I want the queen range. I'm sorry but that sounds incredibly good because I'm a 2v2 player who uses a lot of queens in the early game. This would make my already sick defenses even sicker. Come at me double 4gates! I have 5-range queens. That's longer range than a roach. I'm just going to go mass queen all day long.
On May 04 2012 10:51 KimJongChill wrote: Why....the queen ground buff doesnt make any sense to me...why not just decrease spine crawler build time or sthing?
Uh... that sounds like it would allow zerg is just play absurdly greedy. Like all drones - see MM move out - make spines.
That's how you play zerg. Make drone an until you need to make units then react and build defense for whatever is coming. Atm with spines you cant always do that. Decreasing spine build time would be a good change imo.
The reason I kinda don't like this change is that it sorta forces zergs to run hatch first builds now (at least vs terran) since the safety of doing something like 11 overpool or 11overlord 12 pool is pretty pointless when queens have the same attack range as marines and hellions. I personally liked getting pool first to punish any sort of play like that while still getting a good economy. With the range change, terrans probably wouldn't do that sort of thing nearly as much now. With this change they should consider reverting/removing the necessity of having factory for reaper speed, or depot before barracks.
In summary, this reduces the variety of builds terran can do and by association the amount of builds that zerg should do.
On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote: if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!"
Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution
mothership does not beat bl infestor.
really? what's all this archon toilet business then?
Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason.
It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it.
On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote: if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!"
Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution
mothership does not beat bl infestor.
really? what's all this archon toilet business then?
Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason.
It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it.
Unless you're Liquid'Hero.
But not everyone is Liquid'Hero.
And not everyone is Stephano.
And not everyone is MMA or MKP. But Blizzard keep acting like we are when concidering TvZ and TvP. :/
EPT
