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On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about.
I use Reapers pretty regularly in TvZ i really like them as a unit. After this change they can be removed from the game , literally . The only use they will have is TvT and this thats a mirror so this doesn't matter if they exist or not. Seriously theres ~10 unused or massively underused units/abilities Terran has why don't those get adressed or removed ?
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On May 04 2012 11:12 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote:
It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven. The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank
Getting to mass raven take longer than zerg need to get his BL infestor army, it open you to a huge timing before you have any seeker available and is not reliable in the long run.
It's a good thing to use, but definitly not a argument you can use like " Hey, look, use this !"
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On May 04 2012 11:14 kiklion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:10 SuperYo1000 wrote:
wait.....so if I try to punish hatch first with a pylon and cannon at natural can a queen hit the pylon placed in front of a cannon? How are they going to have a queen if they went hatch first? And I am pretty sure they can attack over a pylon currently anyway with range 3.
obvoiusly the cannon is pounding the hatch for a while. I mean can the queen attack pylon without being hit by cannon
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On May 04 2012 11:15 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:12 Protosnake wrote:On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote:
It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven. The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank Getting to mass raven take longer than zerg need to get his BL infestor army, it open you to a huge timing before you have any seeker available and is not reliable in the long run. It's a good thing to use, but definitly not a argument you can use like " Hey, look, use this !"
I know this, this was after an engagement where he made a pretty good trade, just poiting out that they are options
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On May 04 2012 11:17 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:15 Noocta wrote:On May 04 2012 11:12 Protosnake wrote:On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote:
It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven. The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank Getting to mass raven take longer than zerg need to get his BL infestor army, it open you to a huge timing before you have any seeker available and is not reliable in the long run. It's a good thing to use, but definitly not a argument you can use like " Hey, look, use this !" I know this, this was after an engagement where he made a pretty good trade, just poiting out that they are options
Yeah but most of those are kinda gimmicky and nothing you can use on a regular basis.
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On May 04 2012 11:10 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. And how do you deny the third if 2 queen can just chase your hellions away because they can't be kitted anymore ?  I don't remember changing thing to make units useless a good say to design too. More vareity > less variety. The queen change give the game less possibility while making thing easier for the other, it's not good design.
you cant chase hellions off creep... and if ur good at preventing creep tumors then there is no way they will be able to make a creep highway to the 3rd and defend it with only queens.
the entire point of the buffs to zerg is for early game defense. the tumors were to help against hellions, u guys whined and it was reverted, now the queen range is to help against hellions and u ppl still whine. w/e change they will make it is quite obvious what they are trying to do, but terran players are heavily against it.
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On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:04 Whitewing wrote:On May 04 2012 11:02 the`postman wrote:On May 04 2012 11:00 Dodgin wrote:On May 04 2012 10:50 Whitewing wrote:On May 04 2012 10:43 Roe wrote:On May 04 2012 10:41 -_- wrote:On May 04 2012 10:39 Roe wrote:On May 04 2012 10:36 -_- wrote:
if terran players played protoss, they would never stop complaining about broodlord infestor.
"bl infestor can't be defeated! guess I better 4 gate every game!" Well, protoss does have a super unit to help deal with the late game zerg army. I guess in hots maybe the Thor will be the lategame solution mothership does not beat bl infestor. really? what's all this archon toilet business then? Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason. It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it. Unless you're Liquid'Hero. But not everyone is Liquid'Hero. And not everyone is Stephano. Spreading your broods and infestors isn't that difficult, I do it myself when I play zerg and it's hilariously effective, especially if you manage to lock down the archons with fungal and don't let them in the damn vortex. Regardless, not really the point. BL/Infestor is the strongest late game army out of all 3 races hands down. It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.."
Mass EMP ? Ive seen this style from not so known koreans like everytime i watch ESV and like its funny when terran switches to mules and uses scvs only for gas its retardely strong - suddenly the ever so "imba" lategame of protoss doesnt look so shiny - whenever you try attack you have no shield and absolutely no energy and dont tell me you wont get those off if you have 10-15 of those cloaked bastards combined with observer sniping is completely deadly - so thats terran lategame for me. Protoss was imba until it got figured out ;D
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On May 04 2012 11:12 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote:
It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven. The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank
If I recall correctly, that was in a tournament where he was playing a mid master NA player when he himself is a high master (near GM level) on KR.
If most pro uses marine tank, it's not because they are too stupid to try new strats, it's because that's the most efficient thing they have right now. That's as silly as people advocating mech in TvP.
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HAHAHAHA.
Is this strong enough evidence that Blizzard is 'balancing' at the whim of the community? This game is becoming such a farce if so.
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On May 04 2012 11:12 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about. Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing.
the reason for the changes is to buff zergs early game defenses...... queen buffs are the most logical because they are early game defensive units... the only other defensive unit(structure) zerg has is spines, shall we buff spines instead of queens? no because ppl will bitch about that to. there is no pleasing you ppl.
this is why blizz needs to stop asking for feed back from randoms in the community and instead go to the top lvl players FIRST. they need to grow a pair, release the patch for about a month, and if it not as they intended then revert it. that is the best way to test something IMO instead of have it out for a single day and listen to a bunch of gold-low master QQ and then revert it all in 24 hours.
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On May 04 2012 10:51 radiantshadow92 wrote:
the queen range is still dumb. it takes alot of skill to kite queens on creep and amp to kite them off creep with hellions while macroing as terran. Now its just impossible to kite TT
Yeah, its the same as the immortal range buff, apparently David Kim and friends dont want to strain them aliens with micro.
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On May 04 2012 11:24 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:12 teamhozac wrote:On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about. Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing. the reason for the changes is to buff zergs early game defenses...... queen buffs are the most logical because they are early game defensive units... the only other defensive unit(structure) zerg has is spines, shall we buff spines instead of queens? no because ppl will bitch about that to. there is no pleasing you ppl. this is why blizz needs to stop asking for feed back from randoms in the community and instead go to the top lvl players FIRST. they need to grow a pair, release the patch for about a month, and if it not as they intended then revert it. that is the best way to test something IMO instead of have it out for a single day and listen to a bunch of gold-low master QQ and then revert it all in 24 hours.
And zerg needed an early game defense buff because ... ?
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On May 04 2012 11:22 LRObot wrote:
HAHAHAHA.
Is this strong enough evidence that Blizzard is 'balancing' at the whim of the community? This game is becoming such a farce if so.
i feel like this statement has a lot of truth to it. I feel like they're basically breaking down and saying, "Hellions are popular, and we want to mix things up, but can't figure out how to make that happen naturally. so we're going to make it so."
don't get me wrong, i HATE hellions vs. me, but i don't know if this is the right way to do it.
Range of 5 is RIDICULOUSLY long. i think it's pushing too much. Granted, it's not like you're massing queens to be able to deal with hellions (sure, you can end up w/ 4-5 relatively early, but you stop producing them).
At least they're trying things though? I don't even know.
I feel like i just contradicted myself with that statement.
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Interesting.
Never considered buffing range, this could be pretty neat. Can't see it being too op either since their dps is so-so and 5 range with halfway decent speed only on creep is manageable. I'd even settle for 4 range. Can ward off those annoying hellions a lot easier now.
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Are any of these changes actually needed? I might agree with the Ovi change but the others are kinda headscratchers. Are these even issues ? Sounds more like gotta change stuff up just for the sake of it without adressing actual big issues the game currently has.
There so much stuff that is never used and it gets completely ignored. Sad thing is they make more and more stuff not used at all with the way they change the game.
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On May 04 2012 11:34 Alexstrasas wrote:
And zerg needed an early game defense buff because ... ?
Zerg early game is crap and everyone knows it.
I think the Queen range increase is a more elegant solution than the energy increase would have been.
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On May 04 2012 11:12 Protosnake wrote:
I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven.
The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank
Are you talking about the game he sent day9? In which he had ~8 orbitals and 5 bases against 4-5 base z. He could have won that game like 10 minutes earlier playing anything else but did that so he could send it to day and day make a daily of it.
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On May 04 2012 11:34 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:24 Ballistixz wrote:On May 04 2012 11:12 teamhozac wrote:On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote:On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote:
Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about. Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing. the reason for the changes is to buff zergs early game defenses...... queen buffs are the most logical because they are early game defensive units... the only other defensive unit(structure) zerg has is spines, shall we buff spines instead of queens? no because ppl will bitch about that to. there is no pleasing you ppl. this is why blizz needs to stop asking for feed back from randoms in the community and instead go to the top lvl players FIRST. they need to grow a pair, release the patch for about a month, and if it not as they intended then revert it. that is the best way to test something IMO instead of have it out for a single day and listen to a bunch of gold-low master QQ and then revert it all in 24 hours. And zerg needed an early game defense buff because ... ?
please read instead of asking those kinds of questions. they are balancing it based on the PRO levels. this is patch is meant to effect them and not anyone lower than that. at those levels zerg needs a buff.
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As if kiting queens with hellions while macroing behind it wasn't hard enough already, now we can't even kite.If blizzard keeps going this way sc2 will end up having just as much micro as wc3's tower defences.
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Could it be blizzard is looking further into the future, and implementing these changes now because it could help a little with WoL balance, but play a a larger role when HotS beta comes out?
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EPT
