EPTMhm It's not as impossible as everyone makes it out to be, Stephano has one of the best, maybe the best late game unit control in PvZ and he is still beatable if you're good enough.
Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 71
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
Mhm It's not as impossible as everyone makes it out to be, Stephano has one of the best, maybe the best late game unit control in PvZ and he is still beatable if you're good enough. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
Spreading your broods and infestors isn't that difficult, I do it myself when I play zerg and it's hilariously effective, especially if you manage to lock down the archons with fungal and don't let them in the damn vortex. Regardless, not really the point. BL/Infestor is the strongest late game army out of all 3 races hands down. | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:01 Xapti wrote: The reason I kinda don't like this change is that it sorta forces zergs to run hatch first builds now Thats all zergs do @_@ | ||
b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
On May 04 2012 10:50 Whitewing wrote: Rephrase: Mothership does not beat BL/Infestors if they're spread out and split and controlled properly. It annihilates BL/Infestors if they're clumped for some reason. It's hilarious watching Stephano roll protoss players who go Mothership with his infestor/BL control, because there's nothing at any point Protoss can do to engage it. controlled properly. I've seen many a pro not control properly then. | ||
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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:04 Whitewing wrote: Spreading your broods and infestors isn't that difficult, I do it myself when I play zerg and it's hilariously effective, especially if you manage to lock down the archons with fungal and don't let them in the damn vortex. Regardless, not really the point. BL/Infestor is the strongest late game army out of all 3 races hands down. It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." | ||
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lugaidster
Chile30 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On May 04 2012 10:44 Solo Terran wrote: Wtf the queen range upgrade is just another Terran nerf. Now we can't kite queens with hellions/ marines/ reapers. whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
Queens are increasingly being used to block and handle situations where one player just randomly made some lings and attacked. The range increase seems like a good way to make the matchup slightly less volatile. This'll make it easier to use multiple queens at once and will make it easier to target down banelings with queens. In ZvT, it'll pretty much kill reapers dead, but then they weren't used much anyway. Marines never kited queens that much in the first place, although this'll nerf bunker rushes quite a bit. Hellions will still be staple, IMO, just slightly worse; since they're used for two reasons atm (denying creep and denying the third until two base saturation and ling production starts) they'll still be just as good at denying the third, but denying creep will be quite a bit trickier. ZvP I see early game harass being easier for Z to deal with. Queens should be able to kite zealots really well on creep. Not commenting on how it'll be balance wise, but this is how I'm seeing it. I'm looking forward to trying it out in ZvZ the most, because I don't particularly enjoy the very volatile ling/baneling fights. | ||
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teamhozac
404 Posts
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the`postman
United States1643 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:04 Whitewing wrote: Spreading your broods and infestors isn't that difficult, I do it myself when I play zerg and it's hilariously effective, especially if you manage to lock down the archons with fungal and don't let them in the damn vortex. Regardless, not really the point. BL/Infestor is the strongest late game army out of all 3 races hands down. You should try out archon/VR/Collosus/Mother ship, pretty good composition  | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On May 04 2012 09:52 MorroW wrote: People are worried about transfuse but your forgetting Zerg will cover the map in creep like twice as fast lol. Good luck placing a pylon on zergs side of the map or managing anything with the cars xD sadly this post is just one of most people incorrectly intuit that the 50 energy buff (now redacted by Blizz) would have made a huge difference in covering the map with tumors. This is because the speed of creep spread is limited very quickly by the number of tumors you have (due to the cooldown of making a new tumor). in fact if you're spreading creep in 1 direction, 4 tumors is the max speed, any more tumors does not speed up the spread rate. Even more importantly, 3 tumors is nearly as fast as 4 tumors (meaning 4 tumors only spreads creep slightly faster than 3), and it's very easy to get 3-4 active tumors when you have 1 or 2 queens devoted to spreading creep (which is what the very top pros most often do, and go for it straight away in ZvT, which is where creep is most necessary). So my point being is that I think people were too quickly overreacting to the change just because it sounds extreme, and that probably played the main reason to why the change was just reversed only 1 day after they announced the changes (highly unlikely it was decided due to players testing it). | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote: whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. And how do you deny the third if 2 queen can just chase your hellions away because they can't be kitted anymore ?  I don't remember changing thing to make units useless a good say to design too. More vareity > less variety. The queen change give the game less possibility while making thing easier for the other, it's not good design. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote: whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. well Queen and marine being same attack range is pretty huge. Queens actually do pretty well vs early marines. reapers are still used, but after this they will be worthless. helions cant attack queens that are blocking ramps or chokes which is also big. | ||
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Man with a Plan
United States401 Posts
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teamhozac
404 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:08 Ballistixz wrote: whats really sad is how ppl will whine no matter what. i mean seriously, do ppl even use reapers these days... hellions are used mainly to deny creep and to deny a fast third anyway, there not used to blindly run inside of a base in a suicide attempt to kill drones. just stop with the bitching already, hellions will still have a purpose which is to deny tumors and a fast third. u guys already whined to the point that they reverted the energy buff, this compensates for it. if they revert this change then the only other option is to buff spines, which ppl will also QQ about. Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing. | ||
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:06 tnud wrote: It's kinda sad I had to stop and think "Wait.. terran late game army.." I was on lastshadow stream some days ago, he scouted Z going for a huge mass of broodlord/infestor, he went mass raven. The heat seekers missiles killed 120 worth of supply in half a second, so i still have hope about terran transitioning out of Marine tank | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
Not all zergs but many zergs. There's no obligation or too much incentive to do it though; the economic advantage is not large at all (oftentimes lost by not having SCV/marine denial as fast) | ||
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kiklion
99 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:10 SuperYo1000 wrote: wait.....so if I try to punish hatch first with a pylon and cannon at natural can a queen hit the pylon placed in front of a cannon? How are they going to have a queen if they went hatch first? And I am pretty sure they can attack over a pylon currently anyway with range 3. | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
On May 04 2012 11:12 teamhozac wrote: Whats really sad is your completely biased troll job youve done throughout this entire thread. Maybe people are arguing against this because THERE IS NO FUCKING REASON FOR IT! Do you really feel like queens need a buff? Since when has this even been an issue, I am just flabbergasted at this whole thing. why don't you go read why they did it then instead of writing big letters. This is mainly about helping top level korean zergs in combating early pressure. | ||
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