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On May 04 2012 07:17 Talack wrote:Terrans saying they are having too hard of a time beating the other two races without doing all-ins or extreme aggression earlier. Protoss/Zerg telling the terrans they're just bad and that their race is way too strong. Productive thread  It's a shame that terrans don't get the option of playing the way they want to and instead have to play the way the other two races tell them to do ><
Yea , because if we can learn anything from what we've seen in the pro scene is that toss and zerg are really keeping terran from doing a multitude of different builds / all ins / eco plays.
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On May 04 2012 07:13 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:07 HomeWorld wrote:overlord speed boost , no way, their main function is not scouting but increasing supply (let's make supply depots and pylons fly too what the hell  )queen starting with 50 energy , might be too much observers production time is just fine. Only if my overlords can warp shit in too D;
Yeah and think about if you could lower your overlord too :D
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On May 04 2012 07:14 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:07 Wasteweiser wrote:On May 04 2012 07:01 hanlonbro wrote:On May 04 2012 06:57 EmilA wrote:On May 04 2012 06:39 Salteador Neo wrote:
There are less terrans because it's the hardest race to play at decent levels, not the weakest.
Ofc it has to be because it has the most cost-effective units if we want a balanced game at the highest level. Funny how the "it's okay because it's balanced at pro levels" only comes from zergs and protoss players. The balance of this game has gone so far down the shitter. You have grandmaster protoss players who have never expanded, ever, while you have terran players who are so motherfucking good but are still struggling in mid masters because they insist on playing straight up against protoss players who manage to control their drooling and roll their face across the keyboard. I don't remember which interview but LG-IM_Mvp said that it's not the game, it's the player. And he is a terran player, he does not whine. MVP also said terran was the weakest race in an interview with Artosis. BAMSHEBLAM. Back to some sort of main topic, I really dont see these changes being so major that we need a test map to check them out. It's really so minor and just changes how queens allocate energy really that changed. Just sad , my race doesn't get a buff MVP said that Terran was weak on that particular set of maps that were being played at that time. MVP doesn´t balance whine Hero, MVP and Parting have said that TvP the better player wins. Stop twisting words to fit your.... agenda?
I have absolutely no input in this discussion other than to just chime in that HerO MVP and PartinG won...
I agree with the overlord movement speed change, it's something that should have probably been changed a while ago, glad they're getting into it now. However the queen starting energy buff is WAAAAAAAY too drastic in my opinion. 4 queen openings already stop hellion harass and provide great creep spread, and not having to worry about inject over tumor anymore...
Also, Robotics timings have seen a recent trend in professional games in nearly every matchup. Decreasing obs build time would not only help get observers out faster, it would be 10 seconds off any immortal or colossi production...already have chronoboost, do they really want that?
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Some for of changes to stuff that is NEVER used would be nice i mean its for testing anyway isn't it ? Couldn't be more stupid than the proposed Queenchange ....
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On May 04 2012 07:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:17 Talack wrote:Terrans saying they are having too hard of a time beating the other two races without doing all-ins or extreme aggression earlier. Protoss/Zerg telling the terrans they're just bad and that their race is way too strong. Productive thread It's a shame that terrans don't get the option of playing the way they want to and instead have to play the way the other two races tell them to do >< I know, as a protoss I have the same problem with zergs. I want to play a long macro game with almost no early agression and they keep building like 90 drones and rolling me over. I hate that zergs tell me the way I am required to play the game. But to the topic at hand. I think everything looks reasonable, but not ground breaking. I am willing to see what queen buff does and I think creep is a good way to allow zerg more warning for early pushes without giving them to much.
Like Mvp said, it's not the game, it's the player. If an early push is coming, Zerg should be able to either read it correctly judging by the opponent's build and timings or their game sense will tell them. It's not the game, it's the player not having any game sense or not practicing hard enough to get build orders and timings in their head.
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On May 04 2012 07:09 scsnow wrote:Stephano also said that protoss need a buff 
stephano also loses to good toss players like MC or any korean toss for that matter.
its best to take his words with a grain of salt, he is overly cocky and that always bites him in the ass in the end.
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On May 04 2012 07:07 HomeWorld wrote:overlord speed boost , no way, their main function is not scouting but increasing supply (let's make supply depots and pylons fly too what the hell ) queen starting with 50 energy , might be too much observers production time is just fine.
They're only for supply?
So why do they morph into detection?
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On May 04 2012 07:33 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:09 scsnow wrote:Stephano also said that protoss need a buff stephano also loses to good toss players like MC or any korean toss for that matter. its best to take his words with a grain of salt, he is overly cocky and that always bites him in the ass in the end.
At least he doesn't declare himself as having Top 3 control then proceeds to going 1-7 in a premier league.
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Love the oive speed change, not to big not still helps with scouting early game. observer dont really know how much it will make a difference. Queen change i like, but i think it will be to powerful possibly. would like to see how the queen change affects the use of spines in early game, maybe a slightly more delayed ling speed than already is?
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You just need code-S level micro
On a serious note though, I am in no position to argue balance (I don't play terran and I'm terribad) but one thing I keep thinking is "maybe marine/marauder is NOT supposed to beat everything the protoss have". I know you balance with vikings, medivacs and ghosts too but as I understand they are just there to allow the marines and marauders to deal their damage (though recently I've seen more tanks).
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If having queens spawn with enough energy to instantly transfuse sounds so 'op' then how about, when a queen spawns out of a hatch , the hatch becomes populated with larva. This would let the queen use her energy on a tumor without giving the option of instantly transfusing.
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On May 04 2012 07:38 Leth0 wrote:
If having queens spawn with enough energy to instantly transfuse sounds so 'op' then how about, when a queen spawns out of a hatch , the hatch becomes populated with larva. This would let the queen use her energy on a tumor without giving the option of instantly transfusing.
Nah dont like it. Injecting is something the player should do, not the game.
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On May 04 2012 07:40 Jarree wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:38 Leth0 wrote:
If having queens spawn with enough energy to instantly transfuse sounds so 'op' then how about, when a queen spawns out of a hatch , the hatch becomes populated with larva. This would let the queen use her energy on a tumor without giving the option of instantly transfusing.
Nah dont like it. Injecting is something the player should do, not the game.
It wouldn't change inject, it's a simple way to 'fix' the 'problem' with people thinking that queens spawning with a transfuse is to 'OP".
More elegant and on-topic point than half of you other petty complainers will bother talking about. So just continue on being argumentative, it's not even about the topic for most of you, it's just about arguing and trying to 'be right'.
If you spent half a second even thinking about it you would realize something as simple as, 'allowing the first inject to cost no energy from a new queen' would do the exact same thing to 'fix' the exact same 'issue' you have with it. But you don't bother because that wouldn't be as fun as just arguing.
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Wow, there's alot of prize money in the scene.
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I think in the end all of these will be good and I applaud Blizzard for trying it out like this. Will be interesting to see what they effect ends up being. I am hopeful though
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On May 04 2012 07:32 hanlonbro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:24 Plansix wrote:On May 04 2012 07:17 Talack wrote:Terrans saying they are having too hard of a time beating the other two races without doing all-ins or extreme aggression earlier. Protoss/Zerg telling the terrans they're just bad and that their race is way too strong. Productive thread It's a shame that terrans don't get the option of playing the way they want to and instead have to play the way the other two races tell them to do >< I know, as a protoss I have the same problem with zergs. I want to play a long macro game with almost no early agression and they keep building like 90 drones and rolling me over. I hate that zergs tell me the way I am required to play the game. But to the topic at hand. I think everything looks reasonable, but not ground breaking. I am willing to see what queen buff does and I think creep is a good way to allow zerg more warning for early pushes without giving them to much. Like Mvp said, it's not the game, it's the player. If an early push is coming, Zerg should be able to either read it correctly judging by the opponent's build and timings or their game sense will tell them. It's not the game, it's the player not having any game sense or not practicing hard enough to get build orders and timings in their head.
i dont understand what you mean by this... you can stare until you feel constipated still not have a fucking clue what your enemy is doing. like if walls off, and when i fly my ovie in marines are there to intercept, and i run lings up the ramp and i see a few marines
what is he going? his marine count is lower than ususal... is that cause he built a 3rd cc? or is it cause he's building banshees? or is it cause he's gonna marauder hellion my ass...
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As a terran player, no problem with any of this, except the queen one. That seems a little bit silly.
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On May 04 2012 07:43 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 07:40 Jarree wrote:On May 04 2012 07:38 Leth0 wrote:
If having queens spawn with enough energy to instantly transfuse sounds so 'op' then how about, when a queen spawns out of a hatch , the hatch becomes populated with larva. This would let the queen use her energy on a tumor without giving the option of instantly transfusing.
Nah dont like it. Injecting is something the player should do, not the game. It wouldn't change inject, it's a simple way to 'fix' the 'problem' with people thinking that queens spawning with a transfuse is to 'OP". More elegant and on-topic point than half of you other petty complainers will bother talking about. So just continue on being argumentative, it's not even about the topic for most of you, it's just about arguing and trying to 'be right'. If you spent half a second even thinking about it you would realize something as simple as, 'allowing the first inject to cost no energy from a new queen' would do the exact same thing to 'fix' the exact same 'issue' you have with it. But you don't bother because that wouldn't be as fun as just arguing.
I don't think Blizzard will implement these kind of mechanics. There is none as far as i know right now. It's the same as when the snipe nerf was being discussed and someone suggested -15 dmg to massive. There is no negative dmg to a unit type and I don't think Blizz will make one, even if it makes sense. So what i replied was me saying this in short.
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Another way to fix the queen if they wanted her to be able to spread more creep is just to untie the creep spawn with the energy and tie it to a cooldown and set the cooldown to a degree they find acceptable (much like they did with corrupter) , spawn with it available or spawn with it on cooldown, would be easier to tweak that condition around just spawning creep at the expense of not being able to stockpile energy on a single queen and lay down a bunch of tumors.
There is a lot of ways to go with this and some of you are so goddamn immature you just look at it and go "NO, its TOO OP AS IS, blah blah blah, bitch and moan bitch and moan", instead of actually looking at the issue they are trying to change and talking about the actual issue, the mechanics, and what could / should be done, in an interesting way.
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If Queens will be allowed to have +25 then I think that so should Orbitals and Nexus.
edit. not the first nexus at the start, but any additional ones
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EPT
