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So wait protoss need faster observers so they can play even more greedily than they already do? People have to accept that if you play greedy you are taking a risk.
The queen thing is similar, why should zergs have to make a tactical decision about whether to inject or lay creep, lets make it easy and let them do both.
Both these changes seem to be about reducing decision making, surely this is the key skill that top players need, having to weigh up choices against each other for the best result?
Perhaps terran players find it hard to decide between scanning and MULEing, maybe blizzard should make scans give you 200 minerals. Perhaps protoss want to go HT but want to have detection as well, why not make HT detectors. Maybe zerg can't decide between mutas and infestors, lets make infestors fly so they can harass better.
The fewer choices in the game the less exciting the game is, both to play and to watch.
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On May 04 2012 06:04 Willzzz wrote:
So wait protoss need faster observers so they can play even more greedily than they already do? People have to accept that if you play greedy you are taking a risk.
The queen thing is similar, why should zergs have to make a tactical decision about whether to inject or lay creep, lets make it easy and let them do both.
Both these changes seem to be about reducing decision making, surely this is the key skill that top players need, having to weigh up choices against each other for the best result?
Perhaps terran players find it hard to decide between scanning and MULEing, maybe blizzard should make scans give you 200 minerals.
The fewer choices in the game the less exciting the game is, both to play and to watch.
and you can do a bunker rush and get away with it...easy to pull one...extremely hard to defend one...oh no you have salvage..say what?
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Yes, balance should be decided by polls.
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This isn't so much about races, it's about making choices less important. Don't bring completely irrelevant facts into it.
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On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance!
Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,,
They are not!
Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314
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On May 04 2012 05:07 symbolic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:06 Diavlo wrote:On May 04 2012 03:31 densha wrote:
Seriously, I know it's fashionable to completely over-react and pretend like little changes will destroy an entire part of the game (i.e. "protoss will never be able to FE against 4 range roaches!!11!!"), but in this case it's just silly what some people are claiming will happen. Don't forget about the "4 range roaches make hellions worthless because they can't kite anymore"  Or the wonderful "Supply depot before barracks is stupid. It limits the terran early game too much". roaches are 3 range...
Jesus Christ. How long has it been since you played the game?!
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Protoss must get another thing.
Observer buildable from Nexus, but it requires Stargate OR Robotics Bay. Cus it's flying small robot, it can require one of those tier2 buildings.
So everyone will be happy.
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On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance!
first off, u wont be missed and nobody will care even in the slightest if u leave, so threats like that are pointless. being rank 1 master also gives u no real credibilit, so saying ur a rank 1 M is also pointless.
secondly, u are overeating way to much. terrans not lasting much longer? you are throwing assumptions out of ur ass when the patch hant been tested nearly enough to make any real judgement about how it will effect the game.
as for the rest of your post i wont even touch because you are purely trying to predict the future, which is stupid because u have no clue on what the future holds for this game.
these changes effect mostly the highest levels of play, and at the end of the day the pro players SHOULD have a final say in these changes because these changes effect them, not random master players.
seriously, the terran bias in this thread is insane. terrans wont magically go away people...
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On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314
Heh, people trying to contradict the blizzard rep poster that obviously has access to data that they do not have hurts my head.
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On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314
It is definitely NOT a myth
http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/al
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On May 04 2012 06:17 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 It is definitely NOT a myth http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/al
Isn't that data for season 5?
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On May 04 2012 06:17 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 It is definitely NOT a myth http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/al
please stop, u have no idea what u are talking about.
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On May 04 2012 06:14 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 Heh, people trying to contradict the blizzard rep poster that obviously has access to data that they do not have hurts my head.
Why wouldnt you? Blizzard refuses to release that information, so were going off the only information we have. Just because some guy that works for Blizzard says its a myth that Terrans are dissapearing doesn't make it true, learn to challenge authority a little bit
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On May 04 2012 06:23 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:14 Kambing wrote:On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 Heh, people trying to contradict the blizzard rep poster that obviously has access to data that they do not have hurts my head. Why wouldnt you? Blizzard refuses to release that information, so were going off the only information we have. Just because some guy that works for Blizzard says its a myth that Terrans are dissapearing doesn't make it true, learn to challenge authority a little bit
i think the real question here is, why would u refuse to beleive people that work and helped make the game u are playing? you have info from a official source and info from an unofficial source, and you beleive the unofficial source? seriously man.....
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On May 04 2012 06:23 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:14 Kambing wrote:On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 Heh, people trying to contradict the blizzard rep poster that obviously has access to data that they do not have hurts my head. Why wouldnt you? Blizzard refuses to release that information, so were going off the only information we have. Just because some guy that works for Blizzard says its a myth that Terrans are dissapearing doesn't make it true, learn to challenge authority a little bit
Who really cares to be honest? Let's get onto topic!
After thinking about it for a while. Having the creep start right away may in fact be a little bit powerful. But none of these changes are final of course. But I do like the overlord changes. That's pretty neat! They feel insanely fast! LOL.
As for the observer, not as if they just chronoboosted it. It wouldn't come out faster already.
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On May 04 2012 06:17 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game ( i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS. I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial. This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago. Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out). It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result. The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance! Terran whiners need to stop perpetuating the myth that Terrans are disappearing from ladder,,, They are not! Here's a formal statement from blizzard themselves according to their statistics http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4254523958?page=16#314 It is definitely NOT a myth http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/al
Yes I am sure that SC2 Ranks has better information that Blizzard and Blizzard is just lying. And MVP said that he punished Naniwa for being greedy, which is what Koreans do. Punish greed.
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On May 04 2012 04:38 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:34 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. People said the ghost nerf would make it impossible to kill broodlord armies. "oops, looks like they were wrong" BTW the roach change wasn't done in beta. Didn't say it was. I'm saying that regardless of exaggeration in the past, you should be attacking the actual arguments behind the dissent, not just 'oh, people complain about changes and sometimes they're wrong therefore all complaints are unjustified.' FWIW, I still think lategame TvZ is screwed cause of BL--> Ultra switches which are extremely hard to hold without Ghost doing DPS, but it's besides the point. There are two problems with the Queen energy buff: 1) It's not necessary. Creep spreading is not a problem in any matchup versus any opener. Nobody has complained about Hellions until today, and good players already have extremely fast Creep spread against top Terrans. Again, this isn't an issue. 2) It ruins air openings against Zerg unnecessarily. The instant Transfuse should not be underestimated, especially since so much of Stargate and Banshee openings are about picking off units against players who underprepared. This change will just allow Zerg to prepare even less and still not take damage. With the Overlord change, you should never NOT see an air opener coming, and you don't need this change to help you out.
I think the point of the potential buff is being missed. I don't think it's a creep spread buff for the sake of creep spread, but a buff that is just meant to lower the volatility of the race up through the mid-game. Zerg is vulnerable to so much shit early on and very slight mistakes can lead to auto-losses.
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On May 04 2012 06:27 mrjpark wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 04:38 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 04:34 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 04:32 Shiori wrote:On May 04 2012 03:50 Leth0 wrote:On May 04 2012 03:47 Hypemeup wrote:
Well, this means no more stargate play in PvZ and TvZ will be a weird(good zergs already have wicked Creepspread), Why would they want to fuck with TvZ, its really well balanced at the moment. I remember when they were testing 4 range roaches and people would say "well, this means no more fast expanding play in PvZ" Point is, none of you know wtf you are talking about. I remember when people said the Ghost nerf would make it useless against lategame Zerg. Oops, looks like they were right. Just because people over-estimated a change in BETA doesn't mean that bad ideas don't exist today. People said the ghost nerf would make it impossible to kill broodlord armies. "oops, looks like they were wrong" BTW the roach change wasn't done in beta. Didn't say it was. I'm saying that regardless of exaggeration in the past, you should be attacking the actual arguments behind the dissent, not just 'oh, people complain about changes and sometimes they're wrong therefore all complaints are unjustified.' FWIW, I still think lategame TvZ is screwed cause of BL--> Ultra switches which are extremely hard to hold without Ghost doing DPS, but it's besides the point. There are two problems with the Queen energy buff: 1) It's not necessary. Creep spreading is not a problem in any matchup versus any opener. Nobody has complained about Hellions until today, and good players already have extremely fast Creep spread against top Terrans. Again, this isn't an issue. 2) It ruins air openings against Zerg unnecessarily. The instant Transfuse should not be underestimated, especially since so much of Stargate and Banshee openings are about picking off units against players who underprepared. This change will just allow Zerg to prepare even less and still not take damage. With the Overlord change, you should never NOT see an air opener coming, and you don't need this change to help you out. I think the point of the potential buff is being missed. I don't think it's a creep spread buff for the sake of creep spread, but a buff that is just meant to lower the volatility of the race up through the mid-game. Zerg is vulnerable to so much shit early on and very slight mistakes can lead to auto-losses.
As a Protoss player, I feel no different playing against Zerg. Don't scout his third? Die to Roach/Ling all-in or Hydra all-in off of two base. Forcefield poorly? Lose to 3base Roach. There are a lot of "don't scout and auto-loss" things in this game, and that's what makes for a good game. Slight mistakes should result in huge consequences sometimes. If I'm opening 1gate FE into Colossus against Terran, and I split my army poorly, I'll lose to a drop. If I miss a Forcefield at my natural, I'll lose the game. These things are part of Starcraft. Zerg needs to learn to accept that.
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queen energy to 35 much better imo
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EPT
