Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 58

On May 04 2012 05:07 symbolic wrote:

roaches are 3 range...

On May 04 2012 03:49 Existor wrote:
Add upgrade for 50 minerals and 50 gas at Lair or Hatchery (requiring Spawning Pool or Evolution Chamber), that will add 25 more starting energy to Queens.

Problem solved.

On May 04 2012 05:26 zerglingrodeo wrote:
The queen change actually makes it a lot more mechanically difficult for zerg because now we will feel obligated to spawn a creep tumor every time a new queen completes. And we will feel obligated to constantly make queens.

On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:



I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game (i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS.

I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial.

This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago.

Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out).

It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result.

The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance!

On May 04 2012 05:26 zerglingrodeo wrote:
The queen change actually makes it a lot more mechanically difficult for zerg because now we will feel obligated to spawn a creep tumor every time a new queen completes. And we will feel obligated to constantly make queens.

On May 04 2012 05:26 zerglingrodeo wrote:
The queen change actually makes it a lot more mechanically difficult for zerg because now we will feel obligated to spawn a creep tumor every time a new queen completes. And we will feel obligated to constantly make queens.

On May 04 2012 05:26 zerglingrodeo wrote:
The queen change actually makes it a lot more mechanically difficult for zerg because now we will feel obligated to spawn a creep tumor every time a new queen completes. And we will feel obligated to constantly make queens.

On May 04 2012 05:45 KrazyTrumpet wrote:


Is this real life?

I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game (i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS.

I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial.

This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago.

Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out).

It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result.

The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance!

On May 04 2012 05:05 zmansman17 wrote:



I can't see Terran lasting much longer. Queens with 50 energy is reprehensible. This sort of change is ridiculous and even takes away from the sort of decisions that make this a strategy game (i.e. When do I drop that creep tumor versus when do I inject?). That element of uncertainty and decision-making is what makes a good RTS.

I'm a Rank 1 Master Terran and if all of these changes come into effect, I will quit this game. It's hard enough studying for the LSAT while trying to stay active on Sc2, but this will indeed be the final straw. The International win rates of TvP and TvZ are, at this moment, artificially higher than what they should be. Since so many Terrans have dropped from the race as a result of their inability to win (having either switched races, stopped ladder matches, or quit the game entirely), the Win % of the remaining Terrans has increased, but again this increase is artificial.

This increase comes from the reduction of the weaker Terran players who have left. The win rate of the remaining Terran players could have still gone down, or remained the same. People should re-read that bit if they do not understand it. The evidence of this can be seen on NA and EU where Terrans count for 1/4 of the race selections in the GM and Master Leagues. This was not the case a few months ago.

Additionally, Terrans are now winning in the Early or Mid-Game stages from All-in or Semi-All-in strategies. They recognize, as MVP did versus Naniwa, that opting for a Mid-Late to Late Game versus Protoss is to put yourself at a severe disadvantage. If only David Kim had released Win % per unit of Time, so that it could be in evidence that Terran players are winning more early and increasingly less later on. But of course he did not do this, because to do so would illuminate the already glaring problem of late game TvP (which he notoriously left out).

It's my belief that over the next few months, Protoss will adapt to these Early and Mid-Game strategies (with safer builds like the 2 Gate we have been seeing in the GSL), and they will stave off these attacks, grant a Late Game scenario and mop up the Terran as a result.

The Korean Win rates for April have been released and you can see that Terran is taking a swift fall. Expect this to continue because there is no unit or strategy that Terran has not employed that will change this outcome. Terrans can move more to the Early and Mid-Game timings, which indeed they will. But after these options become known and exhausted, Terran is left with nowhere to go. Great Balance!

On May 04 2012 05:28 the_business_og wrote:

i agree completely about mvp... i used to love to play quick 3orb builds and go into macro games vs protoss but for the last 2 or 3 months ive evclusively played 1base stratetgies vs toss (either 3raxs or cloaked basnhee into 1-1-1) because i feel late game tvp is schewed in the tosses favour
the changes for zerg should be limited to overload speed imo they do need the early scouting... the queen extra enegry will allow zergs to ignore the probable helions till lair tech because theoretically they should be able to get their creep to their third with the extra energy before the helions get there( on most maps probably). transfuses are helpful against marauder/helion pushes too, though i think if they scout properly w/ overloads they would be able to adequately prepare using lings or roaches in most instances and defend