EPTCall to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 47
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Gescom
Canada3513 Posts
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Elp
Netherlands86 Posts
However, those 10 seconds will be very helpful when you have a cloaked banshee / DT's in your base and no observer, they can kill a lot of workers in just 10 seconds. This change makes not having detection more forgiving. I don't think that is the right way to go, it encourages reactionary behavior instead of being prepared for cloaked units. Unnecessary change imo! | ||
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SC_Ghost
United Kingdom64 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:21 LeLfe wrote: Balance is way too sensitive to just "double" anything even queen's energy, that's way too big of a change Or half anything... Look what happened with the Ghost Snipe, right? | ||
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noax
Canada150 Posts
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
MAybe look at the fact that 90% of terran wins are 2 base allins instead of making zerg invincible. Observer buff is totally out of place ,too. Wtf are these guys smoking | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
this doesnt get mentioned anymore because everyone got used to it, but zerg is underrepresented in the gsl since forever, the BEST season for zergs had 5 zergs in ro16, every other season there were 2-4 zergs in ro16 almost no new zerg can make it into the gsl because of how easy it is to lose to random stuff, even drg couldnt make the qualifier remeber? i could go on and on about why it's too easy to lose as zerg and why tvz especially is way too forgiving for t, last season had 1 zerg in ro8, this season there are 0 also this season only ONE zerg from code b managed to get to round 2 of code a, so it's not like anything is changing, zerg needs a substantial buff | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:32 Tsubbi wrote: this is gonna help zerg with stability first and foremost, and being the most fragile race a buff that is long overdue this doesnt get mentioned anymore because everyone got used to it, but zerg is underrepresented in the gsl since forever, the BEST season for zergs had 5 zergs in ro16, every other season there were 2-4 zergs in ro16 almost no new zerg can make it into the gsl because of how easy it is to lose to random stuff, even drg couldnt make the qualifier remeber? i could go on and on about why it's too easy to lose as zerg and why tvz especially is way too forgiving for t, last season had 1 zerg in ro8, this season there are 0 also this season only ONE zerg from code b managed to get to round 2 of code a, so it's not like anything is changing, zerg needs a substantial buff The qualifiers are tough for everyone. Even MMA couldn't make it when he was in top form. That's a rather weak argument. However, Zerg does seem a bit more fragile, and it seems like Blizz is aknowledging it. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:32 Tsubbi wrote: this is gonna help zerg with stability first and foremost, and being the most fragile race a buff that is long overdue this doesnt get mentioned anymore because everyone got used to it, but zerg is underrepresented in the gsl since forever, the BEST season for zergs had 5 zergs in ro16, every other season there were 2-4 zergs in ro16 almost no new zerg can make it into the gsl because of how easy it is to lose to random stuff, even drg couldnt make the qualifier remeber? i could go on and on about why it's too easy to lose as zerg and why tvz especially is way too forgiving for t, last season had 1 zerg in ro8, this season there are 0 also this season only ONE zerg from code b managed to get to round 2 of code a, so it's not like anything is changing, zerg needs a substantial buff That's a good point to bring up. Zerg has been extremely fragile since.....forever. I'd be really happy if they made their game play more solid and stable. | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:28 OmegaKnetus wrote: what a fuckin joke. The game is balanced below pro level, are you fuckin kidding me? MAybe look at the fact that 90% of terran wins are 2 base allins instead of making zerg invincible. Observer buff is totally out of place ,too. Wtf are these guys smoking Even if those stats were true they'd be in no way indicative of zerg being OP. Lower level players will all in if they can because they are too bad or lazy to macro. Which is why they are low level players int he first place. Zerg low level players only try to macro because their progamer heroes do it all the time. But they do it badly obv. Because zerg all ins are more all in than anything a terran can do short of bringing a majority of his scvs. | ||
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Qgelfich
Germany90 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:24 gCgCrypto wrote: Banes are not light are they? This would only affect Marines, Zerglings, Hellions and Zealots Since Spine already has +vs armorded it would only get base damage increase, not vs light increase.. Max +5, otherwise it would be too much of a buff, and less is pointless, as it doesnt change anything. It would affect 3 shoting instead of 4 shoting hellions, as well as killing zealots in 6 hits instead of 7. Zerglings and marines (without combat shield) would remain the same, marines with combat shield would be 2 hits instead of 3. The only crucial sideeffect (as hellion kills are wanted, this would be the whole point of spine damage increase) would be onehit of banes, as they are very commonly used against spines in earlygame situations. Basicly this would make the spines deal damage to all armor types the same, 30. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
I don't mind the overlord change, but I really don't think it is needed either. How often do you see GSL level zergs loose to 1-base terrans these days .... ? The other changes I do find profoundly stupid: Protoss can chronoboost their observers, so they already have the ability to get out a quick observer. It also has the subtle effect that it saves protoss some nexus energy since you might not have to spend chronoboost on an observer if you plan your build well, which is a slight buff. In fact, the chronoboost mechanic is interesting just because of this. The problem of allocating chronoboost is a very important aspect of the protoss race. Moreover, this is gonna deter banshee play in TvP and demotivate Terrans trying out other styles than MMM. An extra +25 queen energy is also gonna have the side effect that zerg macro gets even more insane cos you can delay a third queen for 3 extra drones. Also, lategame brood lord infestor queen play is gonna get even more ridiculous as more queen energy means more creep and transfuses. I would also like to say that it would have been very nice if we had been given the opportunity to try out the ghost nerf in a similar way. That way maybe it could have been implemented in a less retarded way. | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:40 Qgelfich wrote: Since Spine already has +vs armorded it would only get base damage increase, not vs light increase.. Max +5, otherwise it would be too much of a buff, and less is pointless, as it doesnt change anything. It would affect 3 shoting instead of 4 shoting hellions, as well as killing zealots in 6 hits instead of 7. Zerglings and marines (without combat shield) would remain the same, marines with combat shield would be 2 hits instead of 3. The only crucial sideeffect (as hellion kills are wanted, this would be the whole point of spine damage increase) would be onehit of banes, as they are very commonly used against spines in earlygame situations. Basicly this would make the spines deal damage to all armor types the same, 30. Banes are neither light nor armored (units don't need to have either of these 2 labels), so giving spines a +5 to light wouldn't affect spine-vs-bane. It would be fairly silly though, because the spine would be the only unit/building with a bonus to both light and armored. It would basically do 30 damage except against the few units that have neither classification. | ||
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Qgelfich
Germany90 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:44 Rannasha wrote: Banes are neither light nor armored (units don't need to have either of these 2 labels), so giving spines a +5 to light wouldn't affect spine-vs-bane. It would be fairly silly though, because the spine would be the only unit/building with a bonus to both light and armored. It would basically do 30 damage except against the few units that have neither classification. That was exactly my point ^.^ | ||
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PsyChoRo
Romania85 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:26 SC_Ghost wrote: Or half anything... Look what happened with the Ghost Snipe, right? Which a lot of people still agree was way overboard and lead to Ghosts hardly being used in TvZ anymore. | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:48 PsyChoRo wrote: If having queens pop out with 50 energy from the start might seem too much, maybe researching +25 starting energy at Lair seems pretty fair. I mean most casters have an upgrade for starting energy, why not the queen as well ? By the time that Lair Tech hits, the Zerg is generally already in a much more stable condition. Similarly, by the time that most zergs get lair tech, their queens already a buildup of energy. | ||
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ntssauce
Germany750 Posts
Hello , i have a suggestion regarding the overlord movement speed. wouldn't it be better that they just get more HP ? in the early game they get deeper into the base , but can't just move arround the map faster and position everywhere and even spread creep under your orbitals or creep highway. even it's not a lot , every second counts! | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:39 StarBrift wrote: Even if those stats were true they'd be in no way indicative of zerg being OP. Lower level players will all in if they can because they are too bad or lazy to macro. Which is why they are low level players int he first place. Zerg low level players only try to macro because their progamer heroes do it all the time. But they do it badly obv. Because zerg all ins are more all in than anything a terran can do short of bringing a majority of his scvs. what? A zerg can roach bane allin you and drone behind it, because the maps are huge now. Besides I don't think zerg is op, but these changes may very well tip the balance into their favour. And I'm not talking about bronze scrubs, but about at least high masters | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote: Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. | ||
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