EPTI think that is way to huge of a change, a free creep tumor with every queen is gonna make a huge difference.
Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 48
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
I think that is way to huge of a change, a free creep tumor with every queen is gonna make a huge difference. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
I think a good choice would be to do something about how tanks interact with protoss shields, and do something about it at the armory level. That way fast 111s don't get buffed, and also tanks don't become more useful against EMP'd enemies. So one way to do it would be to give incremental bonuses/adjustments to the attack modifier per attack upgrade vs shields - so that at level 3, siege tanks do full damage to shields (Immortals would obviously still negate this damage) Another thing they could do is add a "secondary splash" when tanks hit shields. I think this would be the better choice, because it'd affect chargelots more. Basically, per upgrade level a siege tank gets something like a 5 damage extra splash effect, which would have the same gradient as the splash damage does now (as in, only targets in the center take full splash.. and something like 1-2 extra damage at the edge of the splash) That way, at the 3rd attack upgrade, a siege tank does 15 extra splash damage when hitting units with shields. Here's a quick mock-up of what it could look like ![[image loading]](http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb398/Broodthaers/siegeshield.jpg) | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
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Qgelfich
Germany90 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:48 PsyChoRo wrote: If having queens pop out with 50 energy from the start might seem too much, maybe researching +25 starting energy at Lair seems pretty fair. I mean most casters have an upgrade for starting energy, why not the queen as well ? The point is, an uprade comes too late, and doesnt really help with the early game, especially as most zerg eco builds have to go without gas, and since your queens pop out before gas. Where to research it? For what cost? You cant make it spawningpool, as it would block your speed. You cant make it a hatch tech, as it would block a queen. You cant make it a gasless research, as this doesnt exist in sc2, but if you make it cost gas it becomes pointless. I guess the sweetspot would be for the first queen to have 50 energy, every other queen remaining on 25. | ||
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hanlonbro
108 Posts
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
The queen energy buff is definately an interesting option, time will tell if its too much of a buff or not. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote: Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? N-no...there isn't... Protoss has the Observer...which is getting buffed and generally comes out pretty fast. Terran has the Reaper, and scans. So I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say... Zerg has always been the race that is the most susceptible to early game allins, this actually helps it quite well. | ||
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Virtuous
United States111 Posts
Anyways blizzard never has been pro at balance but at least they try | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
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CikaZombi
Serbia630 Posts
If you want to play with twilight or say stargate tech but MUST get a robo for detection therefore cheapening that investment or speeding it up is a better way to promote more strategies AND achieve the same thing with faster scouting (which is a huge problem with PvT early/mid game). | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:08 Seam wrote: N-no...there isn't... Protoss has the Observer...which is getting buffed and generally comes out pretty fast. Terran has the Reaper, and scans. So I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say... Zerg has always been the race that is the most susceptible to early game allins, this actually helps it quite well. How do you know they're getting buffed? This is just for testing. -_- | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:59 one-one-one wrote: You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. You compare a poke to notice if an expo is set, to a real, consistent fast tier 1 scout. Then you make it worse by adding a tier 2 unit to the early scout comparison. Did you know the existence of 2 gasless rax all ins that look pretty much the same to gasless expand builds? And there is no P build that match that variance and blindness to the opponent. Is pretty much the same situation for TvZ hellion play if scouting overlords got sniped by good marine placement. Edit: That sentece deleted was way out of the line, sorry one-one-one. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Terran has the Reaper, and scans. And flying barrack/factory. For 150 minerals you get flying unit, that is FASTER, than overlord and have 1500 hp vs 200 ovie's hp | ||
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ntssauce
Germany750 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:14 Existor wrote: And flying barrack/factory. For 150 minerals you get flying unit, that is FASTER, than overlord and have 1500 hp vs 200 ovie's hp That's why i'm saying ! give the overlord MORE hp . earlygame scouting is ok when you do this. Btw. the factory is very late  ) | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:08 hanlonbro wrote: Honestly, I would love it if Blizz brings back the Marine Range upgrade. That was such a good upgrade in BW. Also, lockdown for Ghosts wouldn't be too bad either so Terran can play mech vs Protoss (lockdown the immortals) Marines in BW has 4 range and 5 range after upgrade. SC2 rines start with 5 range | ||
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jimbob615
Uruguay455 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:13 CikaZombi wrote: I think they should accually cheapen the robo facility or decrease its build time instead of this buff to the observer. Or perhaps play around with hallucination and its cost. Yes detection for protosses is really gimped and limited and forces you into robo builds, which hinders your options for later, but this affects DT expands in PvP and cloak B in PvT instead of just faster scouting how I supose they invisioned it. If you want to play with twilight or say stargate tech but MUST get a robo for detection therefore cheapening that investment or speeding it up is a better way to promote more strategies AND achieve the same thing with faster scouting (which is a huge problem with PvT early/mid game). mm not sure about that man, in my opinion robotics should cost 200 mins 200 gas. similar to a spire for zerg. it's already insanely cheap, but only because it's the "norm" does no one bring this up, and its been integrated into the meta game already. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:08 Seam wrote: N-no...there isn't... Protoss has the Observer...which is getting buffed and generally comes out pretty fast. Terran has the Reaper, and scans. Observers require enormous tech investment to get, and force you down a particular tech path while closing off others. They can not be compared to units like reaper and scans which T can access no matter what they do, because they come from buildings they will almost always get. The same could be said of ovies and ovie speed. | ||
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Flummie
Netherlands417 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:17 neobowman wrote: Marines in BW has 4 range and 5 range after upgrade. SC2 rines start with 5 range Let's do what he wants. Nerf marines to 4 range and let them have +1 range with an upgrade   | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:18 PassiveAce wrote: Observers require enormous tech investment to get, and force you down a particular tech path while closing off others. They can not be compared to units like reaper and scans which T can access no matter what they do, because they come from buildings they will almost always get. The same could be said of ovies and ovie speed. calling getting a robo an "enormous investment" is just overly hyperbolic (it costs less than a factory or starport with a techlab or reactor). And it doesn't really close off other tech paths either - Parting gets observers for his mass gateway style a lot of the time, it works out if your build is smart. You don't HAVE to go for colossus even if you made a robo | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:14 Belha wrote: Learn the match up, then debate about it please. You compare a poke to notice if an expo is set, to a real, consistent fast tier 1 scout. Then you make it worse by adding a tier 2 unit to the early scout comparison. Did you know the existence of 2 gasless rax all ins that look pretty much the same to gasless expand builds? And there is no P build that match that variance and blindness to the opponent. Is pretty much the same situation for TvZ hellion play if scouting overlords got sniped by good marine placement. I guess i'm the idiot for aguing with someone who clearly have no deep knowledge of what is he talking about. Learn the matchup before you debate about it, please. As long as you are not grandmaster I am pretty sure that I am ranked higher on the ladder than you... I do know the 2 rax all ins, they are pretty sweet. I would like to compare them to hidden 4 gates, the ones where you make a pylon in a far location where you make your extra 3 gateways making the build look like a 1 gate expand... Sure , I can scout it if I see it with a reaper, marine or scv as you can scout the proxy rax with a probe , zealot or stalker ... Both these builds are build that you kinda need to "sniff" out by having good game sense. | ||
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