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Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 46

Forum Index > SC2 General
2110 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 106 Next
Jojo131
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil1631 Posts
May 03 2012 13:58 GMT
#901
Overlord speed increase looks good, but the +25 energy on queens is a bit much, especially for players like me who usually grab around 4 queens before lair in ZvT. Thats a lot of creep.... o.0

Observer change sounds kinda meh to me, but I can't say much about it other than it'd probably help more in PvT.
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
May 03 2012 13:58 GMT
#902
On May 03 2012 22:56 Existor wrote:
What about 50-50 upgrade for 25+ energy for queens at Spawning Pool or Hatchery?


That wouldn't a be a terrible idea, actually.
ElPeque.fogata
Profile Joined May 2010
Uruguay462 Posts
May 03 2012 14:02 GMT
#903
epic patch is epic.

queen energy might be too much.

with standard triple queen i will have creep in their base by the time they push
GribStream.com - Historical Weather Forecast API - https://gribstream.com/
Crushinator
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands2138 Posts
May 03 2012 14:02 GMT
#904
I personally disagree with all of these changes. I think Zerg scouting is fine in general and they sure as hell dont need more against Protoss. I think observers are fine but making it faster is ok too I geuss. Queens with 50 energy would be overpowered.
Fandango
Profile Joined October 2011
291 Posts
May 03 2012 14:03 GMT
#905
I think the overlord buff has been needed since the game was in beta, the queen buff I don't really get, I could see slightly quicker queen build time or like 25 minerals off the price helping in the early game without effecting the late, but creep spread will be ridiculous in the mid game with 2-3 extra tumors when you start. I don't think it would be super overpowered or anything I just don't really get the point of it. Increasing queen damage vs light or something along those lines would probably be better than that too.
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
May 03 2012 14:04 GMT
#906
If you want a better earlier creep spread, just make evo chambers spreading creep. They can then be placed how they are placed against helions anyway and already extend the creep.
gCgCrypto
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany297 Posts
May 03 2012 14:05 GMT
#907
Suggestion alternative to Queen change:

As far as i understood this change was to be made to improve Zergs early game defense and help spreading creep against hellions i would suggest the following:

--> Improve the Spine Crawler in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Root Time
- Give slight damage improvements against Light (because this would MOSTLY only change early rush defense against things like Marine/Ling/Hellion allins)

--> Improve the Creep Tumor in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Time it takes for a Tumor to get invisable
- Increase Speed of Creep Spreading from a Tumor
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:11:29
May 03 2012 14:07 GMT
#908
So far nothing to drastic except the Queens energy change. Personally I don't feel that needed a buff at all as the creep spread is really going to change what openings are effective vs Zerg now. Plus not to mention the transfuses on the Spine Crawler.

Mmh Overlord speed understandable, a little debatable in my opinion although as its already rare enough to be able to catch an Overlord flying around the map trying to get in to position. I believe that the Rax behind the wall at expo on Korhal Compound will no longer work. Which depresses me as I always get a smile on my face killing that Overlord with 1 Rax expo while their searching for proxy 2 Rax.

Observer buff... Well I don't see to much of a problem with it. Will be a pain in the ass when Robo-Blink allins happen.

On May 03 2012 23:05 gCgCrypto wrote:
Suggestion alternative to Queen change:

As far as i understood this change was to be made to improve Zergs early game defense and help spreading creep against hellions i would suggest the following:

--> Improve the Spine Crawler in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Root Time
- Give slight damage improvements against Light (because this would MOSTLY only change early rush defense against things like Marine/Ling/Hellion allins)

--> Improve the Creep Tumor in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Time it takes for a Tumor to get invisable
- Increase Speed of Creep Spreading from a Tumor

Well the Spine Crawler can't have decreased root time as then it would be near-impossible to beat a 6pool Spine rush ZvZ.

Damage increase well that just weakens basically all early game pushes, Zealots, Marines, Hellions, Lings, and SCVs. Plus another situation where the 6Pool+Spine all in is OP as all the Zerg can defend with is light units.
Prime Directive
Profile Joined December 2011
United States186 Posts
May 03 2012 14:09 GMT
#909
Overlord speed and Observer are fine imo. Queen energy seems like a good change to me (I like the idea of having to quickly battle back the creep spread) but I would have to play it out to be sure. It's definitely not "ridiculously OP" or anything.
bLecK
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia625 Posts
May 03 2012 14:10 GMT
#910
Personally I think that the overlord speed buff and observer buff are great minor tweaks in preventing early game pressure/rushes. The queen buff on the other hand just seems like complete overkill to me...
Yoo Ara | Lee Min Jung /Suzy/Taeyeon/Eunji/ NaRae/ Alice
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
May 03 2012 14:16 GMT
#911
Both zerg buffs seems fine to me.
Buffing protoss on the other hand...I don't know. More robo free time, I don't see which problem this tries to address.
Louis8k8
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada285 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:19:46
May 03 2012 14:17 GMT
#912
I'm against the queen energy increase for creep as well. Terran is reliant on that map control or else they can't macro to keep up with the Zerg.They also cannot afford to scan in the early game.

Zerg is vulnerable to quick all-in's, but that isn't the solution. Decrease queen's build time. Or something like make people who make 2 queens build 4 queens easier, and 4-queen people make 6. I tend to get 4 queens and heavy macro because Protoss almost always FFE and I can't see what terran's doing.

Observer's is a nice buff. I lose observers quite a lot in PvT. I don't need 10 second earlier on the first observer, not that big of a deal. But it's that mid game where they keep sniping my observers with scans or a raven that I have to delay my robo.
gCgCrypto
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany297 Posts
May 03 2012 14:19 GMT
#913
On May 03 2012 23:07 -Dustin- wrote:
So far nothing to drastic except the Queens energy change. Personally I don't feel that needed a buff at all as the creep spread is really going to change what openings are effective vs Zerg now. Plus not to mention the transfuses on the Spine Crawler.

Mmh Overlord speed understandable, a little debatable in my opinion although as its already rare enough to be able to catch an Overlord flying around the map trying to get in to position. I believe that the Rax behind the wall at expo on Korhal Compound will no longer work. Which depresses me as I always get a smile on my face killing that Overlord with 1 Rax expo while their searching for proxy 2 Rax.

Observer buff... Well I don't see to much of a problem with it. Will be a pain in the ass when Robo-Blink allins happen.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:05 gCgCrypto wrote:
Suggestion alternative to Queen change:

As far as i understood this change was to be made to improve Zergs early game defense and help spreading creep against hellions i would suggest the following:

--> Improve the Spine Crawler in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Root Time
- Give slight damage improvements against Light (because this would MOSTLY only change early rush defense against things like Marine/Ling/Hellion allins)

--> Improve the Creep Tumor in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Time it takes for a Tumor to get invisable
- Increase Speed of Creep Spreading from a Tumor

Well the Spine Crawler can't have decreased root time as then it would be near-impossible to beat a 6pool Spine rush ZvZ.

Damage increase well that just weakens basically all early game pushes, Zealots, Marines, Hellions, Lings, and SCVs. Plus another situation where the 6Pool+Spine all in is OP as all the Zerg can defend with is light units.


I totally agree with the ZvZ 6pool Crawler rushes, it would buff those way too mutch.
However with a slight damage buff to the Crawler it would affect early pressure but i dont think it would make them unpossible. (i am talking about a really slight change, so Spine crawlers acctually do stuff against Zealots)
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 14:21:35
May 03 2012 14:20 GMT
#914
So much complaining...
#1 Did any of you actually go and play 10+ games on this map before complaining here?
#2 Are any of you actually pro players? Because blizzard says these changes are for pro players, not you. None of us noobs will win or lose any important number of matches because of queen or observer changes.
LeLfe
Profile Joined February 2011
France3160 Posts
May 03 2012 14:21 GMT
#915
Balance is way too sensitive to just "double" anything even queen's energy, that's way too big of a change
Writer for Red bull (Fr) and Iron Squid (En/Fr) @ClemLeLfe on twitter
Qgelfich
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany90 Posts
May 03 2012 14:21 GMT
#916
On May 03 2012 23:07 -Dustin- wrote:
So far nothing to drastic except the Queens energy change. Personally I don't feel that needed a buff at all as the creep spread is really going to change what openings are effective vs Zerg now. Plus not to mention the transfuses on the Spine Crawler.

Mmh Overlord speed understandable, a little debatable in my opinion although as its already rare enough to be able to catch an Overlord flying around the map trying to get in to position. I believe that the Rax behind the wall at expo on Korhal Compound will no longer work. Which depresses me as I always get a smile on my face killing that Overlord with 1 Rax expo while their searching for proxy 2 Rax.

Observer buff... Well I don't see to much of a problem with it. Will be a pain in the ass when Robo-Blink allins happen.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:05 gCgCrypto wrote:
Suggestion alternative to Queen change:

As far as i understood this change was to be made to improve Zergs early game defense and help spreading creep against hellions i would suggest the following:

--> Improve the Spine Crawler in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Root Time
- Give slight damage improvements against Light (because this would MOSTLY only change early rush defense against things like Marine/Ling/Hellion allins)

--> Improve the Creep Tumor in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Time it takes for a Tumor to get invisable
- Increase Speed of Creep Spreading from a Tumor

Well the Spine Crawler can't have decreased root time as then it would be near-impossible to beat a 6pool Spine rush ZvZ.

Damage increase well that just weakens basically all early game pushes, Zealots, Marines, Hellions, Lings, and SCVs. Plus another situation where the 6Pool+Spine all in is OP as all the Zerg can defend with is light units.


Also this would have a funny effect on ZvZ early Ling Bane, when u add 5 dmmg to spine it will oneshot incoming banes. Which is a HUGE buff to non baneling users, who already have an early econ lead.
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
May 03 2012 14:23 GMT
#917
Mmh, thinking about it a damage change wouldn't hurt early game Marines anyways as they die in 2 hits no matter what. I'm not sure though as the Spine crawler is fine in my opinion just a little bit to long to build when you see an attack coming. Which is what I assume the 25+ energy on Queens could help with as they can make that single Spine last longer in early pressure.
gCgCrypto
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany297 Posts
May 03 2012 14:24 GMT
#918
On May 03 2012 23:21 Qgelfich wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 23:07 -Dustin- wrote:
So far nothing to drastic except the Queens energy change. Personally I don't feel that needed a buff at all as the creep spread is really going to change what openings are effective vs Zerg now. Plus not to mention the transfuses on the Spine Crawler.

Mmh Overlord speed understandable, a little debatable in my opinion although as its already rare enough to be able to catch an Overlord flying around the map trying to get in to position. I believe that the Rax behind the wall at expo on Korhal Compound will no longer work. Which depresses me as I always get a smile on my face killing that Overlord with 1 Rax expo while their searching for proxy 2 Rax.

Observer buff... Well I don't see to much of a problem with it. Will be a pain in the ass when Robo-Blink allins happen.

On May 03 2012 23:05 gCgCrypto wrote:
Suggestion alternative to Queen change:

As far as i understood this change was to be made to improve Zergs early game defense and help spreading creep against hellions i would suggest the following:

--> Improve the Spine Crawler in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Root Time
- Give slight damage improvements against Light (because this would MOSTLY only change early rush defense against things like Marine/Ling/Hellion allins)

--> Improve the Creep Tumor in one of 2 ways:
- Decrease Time it takes for a Tumor to get invisable
- Increase Speed of Creep Spreading from a Tumor

Well the Spine Crawler can't have decreased root time as then it would be near-impossible to beat a 6pool Spine rush ZvZ.

Damage increase well that just weakens basically all early game pushes, Zealots, Marines, Hellions, Lings, and SCVs. Plus another situation where the 6Pool+Spine all in is OP as all the Zerg can defend with is light units.


Also this would have a funny effect on ZvZ early Ling Bane, when u add 5 dmmg to spine it will oneshot incoming banes. Which is a HUGE buff to non baneling users, who already have an early econ lead.


Banes are not light are they? This would only affect Marines, Zerglings, Hellions and Zealots
L E E J A E D O N G ! <3
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 03 2012 14:24 GMT
#919
On May 03 2012 22:58 Fragile51 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 22:56 Existor wrote:
What about 50-50 upgrade for 25+ energy for queens at Spawning Pool or Hatchery?


That wouldn't a be a terrible idea, actually.


Hm, Im not sure. I think the 50energy queens right now, might be too strong in ZvT, because you get like 100% more creep early for the same price, while I think it is a good change for ZvP and ZvZ, were you often don't have more than 1queen early, but you would like to get a bit of creep going, or an inject, or (in ZvZ) want a crucial transfuse on a spine or queen.
Though the "free" transfuse might also be too good against Protoss air openings, if the queens was to go to 50energy.

But now add a small upgrade:
I'm imagining a 50-50 upgrade on the pool, that researches in 30-40 sec = faster than a queen builds (50sec), which allows you to go for such 50-75 energy queens, but the change does not make a lot of sense, when you don't open with gas early.
It's nothing strong, but for example when a Protoss pylon blocks you --> get a gas, get the queen upgrade before your one and only queen pops, get an inject AND a tumor going to get a spine up at the ramp.
Or in ZvP, you can open with a gas, but only fake a speeling expand and instead get the queen upgrade (you safe 100 ressources compared to the speedling expand, but gain an extra tumor or an extra inject on the second hatch, which usually does not have its own queen early).
And anytime you have the upgrade and you need emergency anti air, your fresh queens can transfuse, if you played a little less greedy early and got the queen upgrade.
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1105 Posts
May 03 2012 14:25 GMT
#920
On May 03 2012 22:26 Sajaki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 22:22 dUTtrOACh wrote:
The change was basically a buff(?) to snipe vs Psi. to lessen the impact of the massive nerf to snipe vs Bio. and make people who can't do simple math (infestor with 90HP dies from the same amount of snipes as it did before) not realize its impact as much. What I will say, is ghosts are a little bit better against overseers and queens.


Um... 45 damage snipe took 3 shots to kill an infestor pre-patch because of passive zerg regeneration (treated like 91 hp).


Actually, if you were fast enough with the the clicking you COULD kill an infestor with two snipes.
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
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