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Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
2110 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 106 Next
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:09:48
May 03 2012 16:09 GMT
#981
On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.

Are you serious?

Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.


Well.. this year only had one GSL season this year and I'm betting my money on a protoss winning the second. I'd even place money on a PvP final.
medic_ro
Profile Joined July 2011
Romania105 Posts
May 03 2012 16:10 GMT
#982
--- Nuked ---
Josh_rakoons
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom1158 Posts
May 03 2012 16:13 GMT
#983
Terrans have had consistently the better winrate overall for at least a year, try winning in the early - mid game, where toss is weakest.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
May 03 2012 16:14 GMT
#984
On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.

Are you serious?

Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.

When was the last time a Zerg won the GSL? Last season.

How many Zergs are in the ro8 for BOTH seasons? ONE.

By your logic Zerg is fine balance wise.
labbe
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1456 Posts
May 03 2012 16:18 GMT
#985
Wow, I think this is the first time I actually agree with ALL of the balance changes proposed by Blizz.
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
May 03 2012 16:19 GMT
#986
On May 04 2012 01:14 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:
On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.

Are you serious?

Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.

When was the last time a Zerg won the GSL? Last season.

How many Zergs are in the ro8 for BOTH seasons? ONE.

By your logic Zerg is fine balance wise.


Yeah I get frustrated when people use tournament wins as an indication of race balance. One great player or one great run of luck doesn't make a game balanced. A better indication is usually looking at racial balance in the RO8 for tournaments.

It is also useful to look at tournaments like GSL and high level invitational and compare the percentage of one race in say the RO32, to the percent left in the RO8. Those are what I view as better stats.

Nothing is perfect obviously, and you might get 10 zerg players and they all beat each other in the first round. There are lots of stats you can use and group together to get an overall picture of balance, but my least favorite and least valuable is siting tournament wins. Means nothing.
nOondn
Profile Joined March 2011
564 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:21:24
May 03 2012 16:20 GMT
#987
On May 04 2012 01:13 Josh_rakoons wrote:
Terrans have had consistently the better winrate overall for at least a year, try winning in the early - mid game, where toss is weakest.

Then we gonna 1/1/1 each game are you ok with that ? ,TvP seem to be very sick matchup to watch then.
Mid Master Terran @ kr server fighting !!!
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
May 03 2012 16:21 GMT
#988
On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.

Are you serious?

Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.


Watch the GSL?

Anyways a little disappointed that they made no change to terran since it's a test map anyway =/.

50 Energy seems a little much, otherwise it seems okay
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:29:22
May 03 2012 16:21 GMT
#989
This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell:

Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi). Then micro would be so much relevant
Chicken gank op
Thrombozyt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany1269 Posts
May 03 2012 16:24 GMT
#990
On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:
This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell:

Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant


You call the banshee a 1a unit? For real?
templar rage
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2509 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:24:59
May 03 2012 16:24 GMT
#991
On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:
This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell:

Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant


I actually like this idea. So many things in this game just feel like they do way too much damage. Less damage = longer fights = more room for micro to shine. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure its as easy as handing out a 25% damage reduction across the board or something.
one-one-one
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:30:44
May 03 2012 16:24 GMT
#992
On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:
On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right?


You troll.

Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit.
In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front.
If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer.
No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers.




No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways.


No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong.


If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later.
If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo.
There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff.
Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true.

As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds.

There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend.

The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build"
http://blip.tv/file/5219824

The second one is about eliminating assumptions
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1BFY4R7IIP4#t=1710s
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1961 Posts
May 03 2012 16:25 GMT
#993
just because terran was imba for a long time and had to be nerfed to the ground doesn't mean it's another race's turn now to be imba, when do people realize this? and if those changes should get live, please consider making creep retreat faster, this has been such a joke since ever...
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
May 03 2012 16:28 GMT
#994
I don't know how the observer change affects P, but I think the obs and queen changes are completely unnecessary. Ovie speed buff is kind of weird, I would rather have overlord speed research moved down to lower tech.
:)
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 16:30:24
May 03 2012 16:29 GMT
#995
On May 04 2012 01:24 Thrombozyt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:
This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell:

Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant


You call the banshee a 1a unit? For real?

You're right, i just hate how much impact it has in the game in every freanking match up. Fixed.

And btw, sorry to one-one-one for exceding with some words.
Chicken gank op
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
May 03 2012 16:32 GMT
#996
I would love to see what the game would look like if blizzard did a sweeping change of the range of every unit in the game. Bring everything down so that having one large clump would always come second to actual positioning and spread of units. I mean it already does favor the person with a better concave to some extent, but I feel that some units (especially terran units) get SO goddamn effective when you have so much potential damage output in such a small surface area.
SirPsychoMantis
Profile Joined December 2011
United States180 Posts
May 03 2012 16:32 GMT
#997
On May 04 2012 01:08 Shiori wrote:
For the last time: the problem with the Queen energy buff has less to do with the amount of Creep Tumors (although this will be a huge problem at pro level play where players are on top of their spread) and more to do with the fact that you get free Transfuses upon being built, which makes Stargate and Banshee openers horrible.


I agree with the stargate openers, those transfuses will be really good at repelling them. (I hate playing against stargate openers, so hopefully the change goes through )

But, I severely disagree with the tumors. At the pro level, every terran is on top of killing creep early game. The extra few tumors you get will be grouped up around the front of your base, so worst case scenario the terran has to use an extra scan to clear out the creep.
Zerg #1
StrafeJD
Profile Joined November 2011
United States39 Posts
May 03 2012 16:35 GMT
#998
Yup, because protoss is fine scouting early game.
Zerg - scout with drones, overlords
Protoss - scout with probes, ???? -----> robo -----> observer.
But I guess zerg has less options, so buffing overlord speed is the answer...

Yup completely balanced, good job blizzard.
https://twitter.com/#!/StrafeJD
hordala
Profile Joined October 2011
61 Posts
May 03 2012 16:36 GMT
#999
you forgot the fact the zerg is the only race who cant wall off early game so they cant deny scout and are more available for early all ins or pressure this change is needed its 2 creep tumors how is that unbalanced
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
May 03 2012 16:37 GMT
#1000
On May 04 2012 01:32 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2012 01:08 Shiori wrote:
For the last time: the problem with the Queen energy buff has less to do with the amount of Creep Tumors (although this will be a huge problem at pro level play where players are on top of their spread) and more to do with the fact that you get free Transfuses upon being built, which makes Stargate and Banshee openers horrible.


I agree with the stargate openers, those transfuses will be really good at repelling them. (I hate playing against stargate openers, so hopefully the change goes through )

But, I severely disagree with the tumors. At the pro level, every terran is on top of killing creep early game. The extra few tumors you get will be grouped up around the front of your base, so worst case scenario the terran has to use an extra scan to clear out the creep.

So because you hate playing against Stargate openers, even though they're completely balanced, they should be removed from the game just so that Zerg can spread Creep earlier against a strategy whose sole purpose is to deny Creep by taking map control.

Wow. You don't sound biased at all.
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