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On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.
Are you serious? Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.
Well.. this year only had one GSL season this year and I'm betting my money on a protoss winning the second. I'd even place money on a PvP final.
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Terrans have had consistently the better winrate overall for at least a year, try winning in the early - mid game, where toss is weakest.
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On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.
Are you serious? Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.
When was the last time a Zerg won the GSL? Last season.
How many Zergs are in the ro8 for BOTH seasons? ONE.
By your logic Zerg is fine balance wise.
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Wow, I think this is the first time I actually agree with ALL of the balance changes proposed by Blizz.
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On May 04 2012 01:14 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.
Are you serious? Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago. When was the last time a Zerg won the GSL? Last season. How many Zergs are in the ro8 for BOTH seasons? ONE. By your logic Zerg is fine balance wise.
Yeah I get frustrated when people use tournament wins as an indication of race balance. One great player or one great run of luck doesn't make a game balanced. A better indication is usually looking at racial balance in the RO8 for tournaments.
It is also useful to look at tournaments like GSL and high level invitational and compare the percentage of one race in say the RO32, to the percent left in the RO8. Those are what I view as better stats.
Nothing is perfect obviously, and you might get 10 zerg players and they all beat each other in the first round. There are lots of stats you can use and group together to get an overall picture of balance, but my least favorite and least valuable is siting tournament wins. Means nothing.
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On May 04 2012 01:13 Josh_rakoons wrote:
Terrans have had consistently the better winrate overall for at least a year, try winning in the early - mid game, where toss is weakest.
Then we gonna 1/1/1 each game are you ok with that ? ,TvP seem to be very sick matchup to watch then.
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On May 04 2012 01:07 Josh_rakoons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 00:54 MainXpring wrote:
+ Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level.
Are you serious? Whats the last time a protoss won GSL? Yup, that was MC, over a year ago, who was the last protoss to win MLG? Yup, that was huk in orlando, what's the last time a protoss won IPL? Yup that was whitera at ipl2. What's the last time a protoss won dreamhack? Yup, that was her0. All of these were AT LEAST 6 months ago.
Watch the GSL?
Anyways a little disappointed that they made no change to terran since it's a test map anyway =/.
50 Energy seems a little much, otherwise it seems okay
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This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell:
Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi). Then micro would be so much relevant 
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On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell: Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant
You call the banshee a 1a unit? For real?
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On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell: Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant
I actually like this idea. So many things in this game just feel like they do way too much damage. Less damage = longer fights = more room for micro to shine. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure its as easy as handing out a 25% damage reduction across the board or something.
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On May 04 2012 00:59 aintthatfunny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 00:28 one-one-one wrote:On May 03 2012 23:51 kcdc wrote:
Really Blizzard? Zerg is the one with weak early game scouting? You know there's a race with no early flying, cliff-walking or even fast units, right? You troll. Protoss has the stalker, which is a fast unit. In PvT you can pretty much always find out if the terran is taking an expansion by poking the front. If you don't feel safe, put down a robo and chronoboost your observer. No one forces you to play super greedy builds that skips out early observers. No you can't. He can make a bunker on top of his ramp with inbase CC, forcing you to make a fast robo, skip sentries in favor of stalker incase of hellion rine pushes etc. cut probes AND make 4/5 gateways.
No, how come people just spit out things that are wrong.
If he has inbase CC he will soon lift it out. If you scout a bunker you will have enough map control to be able to poke his natural a bit later.
If he is 1 baseing you can usually find out what he is up to with a fast robo.
There are some quick hellion drops and stuff, but keep in mind that he might as well proxy stuff.
Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You are not going to see exactly what your opponent is doing every game, you will have to rely on game sense which is gained by playing a lot of games where you don't have the mindset: "if my opponent does x I HAVE to do x and y and z", because it is most likely not true.
As a constructive tip I recomend you to go watch some BW vods with english commentary and you will sometimes see players with insanely good game sense managing to figure out and counter proxy- and cheese-builds.
There are also some Day[9] dailies I would recommend.
The first one is about "pinning your opponent on a build"
http://blip.tv/file/5219824
The second one is about eliminating assumptions
http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-400-p1-special-episode-eliminating-assumptions-5888689
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just because terran was imba for a long time and had to be nerfed to the ground doesn't mean it's another race's turn now to be imba, when do people realize this? and if those changes should get live, please consider making creep retreat faster, this has been such a joke since ever...
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I don't know how the observer change affects P, but I think the obs and queen changes are completely unnecessary. Ovie speed buff is kind of weird, I would rather have overlord speed research moved down to lower tech.
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On May 04 2012 01:24 Thrombozyt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 01:21 Belha wrote:This may be too much for some poeple, but what the hell: Blizz should fking nerf all the general dps in the game for once. Then nerf all the anti ground 1a units (marauder, roaches, collosi, banshee). Then micro would be so much relevant You call the banshee a 1a unit? For real?
You're right, i just hate how much impact it has in the game in every freanking match up. Fixed.
And btw, sorry to one-one-one for exceding with some words.
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I would love to see what the game would look like if blizzard did a sweeping change of the range of every unit in the game. Bring everything down so that having one large clump would always come second to actual positioning and spread of units. I mean it already does favor the person with a better concave to some extent, but I feel that some units (especially terran units) get SO goddamn effective when you have so much potential damage output in such a small surface area.
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On May 04 2012 01:08 Shiori wrote:
For the last time: the problem with the Queen energy buff has less to do with the amount of Creep Tumors (although this will be a huge problem at pro level play where players are on top of their spread) and more to do with the fact that you get free Transfuses upon being built, which makes Stargate and Banshee openers horrible.
I agree with the stargate openers, those transfuses will be really good at repelling them. (I hate playing against stargate openers, so hopefully the change goes through  )
But, I severely disagree with the tumors. At the pro level, every terran is on top of killing creep early game. The extra few tumors you get will be grouped up around the front of your base, so worst case scenario the terran has to use an extra scan to clear out the creep.
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Yup, because protoss is fine scouting early game.
Zerg - scout with drones, overlords
Protoss - scout with probes, ???? -----> robo -----> observer.
But I guess zerg has less options, so buffing overlord speed is the answer...
Yup completely balanced, good job blizzard.
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you forgot the fact the zerg is the only race who cant wall off early game so they cant deny scout and are more available for early all ins or pressure this change is needed its 2 creep tumors how is that unbalanced
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On May 04 2012 01:32 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 01:08 Shiori wrote:
For the last time: the problem with the Queen energy buff has less to do with the amount of Creep Tumors (although this will be a huge problem at pro level play where players are on top of their spread) and more to do with the fact that you get free Transfuses upon being built, which makes Stargate and Banshee openers horrible. I agree with the stargate openers, those transfuses will be really good at repelling them. (I hate playing against stargate openers, so hopefully the change goes through ) But, I severely disagree with the tumors. At the pro level, every terran is on top of killing creep early game. The extra few tumors you get will be grouped up around the front of your base, so worst case scenario the terran has to use an extra scan to clear out the creep.
So because you hate playing against Stargate openers, even though they're completely balanced, they should be removed from the game just so that Zerg can spread Creep earlier against a strategy whose sole purpose is to deny Creep by taking map control.
Wow. You don't sound biased at all.
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EPT
