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On April 26 2012 08:48 Paladia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:19 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Paladia wrote:On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it. That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't. Why wouldn't you belong there if you are on the same level as the players there? As for people belonging there, lots of players in Code S got there through seeds. Such as MMA and Polt. Have you been writing post whining that MMA and Polt don't belong in Code S as well? Or are you randomly just bashing Stephano for some reason?
MMA maintained his spot for six months and won two GSL's after receiving his seed.
Polt didn't really show he deserved his invite this time around.
There's countless players who can win a game in Code S, foreigners and Koreans, absolutely loads of players. Most professional Protoss players are capable of beating Ryung in PvT for example. What most players can't do is play through Code B, play through Code A and then beat Ryung in PvT, that's a hell of a lot harder to pull off and proves you deserve Code S. Getting invited and then winning one game does not prove it.
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On April 26 2012 03:03 _Darwin_ wrote:
Pretty sure he has been invited many times...
Yeah, I agree.
Good stuff, GO GO Team USA fighting ^^
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On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
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On April 26 2012 03:10 _Darwin_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:08 Bagration wrote:
Congrats Stephano and good luck in Korea is he going to Korea?
Nope, GSL is officially moving to France ^___^
Yes, of course he is 
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On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them.
And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
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On April 26 2012 09:13 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea. The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene.
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On April 26 2012 09:19 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:13 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea. The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not. Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr....
Lol, yes it would.
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How'd he get the invite? What tournament did he win whose prize was code S? Or do any foreign players that show that they don't suck get an invite automatically now? =P
Not that I'm complaining. I'd love to see a Naniwa vs Stephano Code S finals =D
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On April 26 2012 09:19 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:13 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea. The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not. Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene.
Well considering they (kespa/ogn) were already around before Grrrr participated....
It sounds like you're just mad at them and not even bothering to look at it objectively. You can talk all you want about how they didn't care, but the fact is were it not for them TL might very well have not been a sucess or even founded, many players would not have gotten into the scene, etc.
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I'm very happy with this invite. Definitely well deserved and looking forward to next GSL season where we will get to see two foreigners who can REALLY complete with the Koreans.
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On April 26 2012 09:29 Jonas  wrote:How'd he get the invite? What tournament did he win whose prize was code S? Or do any foreign players that show that they don't suck get an invite automatically now? =P Not that I'm complaining. I'd love to see a Naniwa vs Stephano Code S finals =D
GSL gives out 2 Code S seeds each season now. Naniwa/Polt last season. Stephano being in GSL is going to get them a shitload of viewers.
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Oh lord..... GO STEPHANO though im more a Liquid' fan, would be awesome to see him in GSL Code S
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On April 26 2012 09:22 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:19 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 09:13 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea. The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not. Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... Lol, yes it would.
I'll be honest--thinking of stephano smash korean face with zero practice makes me think of Grrr.
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There is too much awesome in sc2 for one day today.
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This next GSL is gonna be sweet! ^_^
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Stephano is such a beast, and exploits the advantages of zerg to the fullest. Never seen anyone go from "I'm expanding and spreading creep and playing passive" to "btw I have 50 roaches knocking at your door" as quickly as he does.
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Pulling for the French Hope all season long. Go Stephano!
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On April 26 2012 09:29 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:19 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 09:13 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 09:02 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:47 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:
[quote]
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision. This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today. And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble. IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established. You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others. I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea. The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not. Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene. Well considering they (kespa/ogn) were already around before Grrrr participated.... It sounds like you're just mad at them and not even bothering to look at it objectively. You can talk all you want about how they didn't care, but the fact is were it not for them TL might very well have not been a sucess or even founded, many players would not have gotten into the scene, etc.
I was being facetious. Grrrr was an influential person, but he's still just a person, and replaceable. OSL/MSL/KESPA were influential organizations, but they were replaceable as well. You're making the mistake of thinking that because foreign BW was influenced by OSL/MSL/KESPA, it needed them. The world was moving towards eSports, and OSL/MSL/KESPA were in an opportune place at an opportune time. BW was not the first eSport and, in the West, it was not that influential when compared to WC 3, which had big sponsors and live events.
My issue with OSL/MSL/KESPA was not just that they ignored the foreign scene, but their general philosophy towards eSports. As television stations, the companies behind OSL and MSL saw eSports as made-for-television content. They wanted to keep the production of this content within Korea, and to sell that content to the rest of the world. That's why they kept their players on a tight leash and refused to let them participate in foreign cups and tournaments - because the players were the content producers, and they were not willing to share them with other organizers around the world. This kept BW localized in Korea, and the scheme of selling BW content never did work because the international public was not interested in a Korean-only eSport.
BW under OSL/MSL/KESPA was a monopoly.
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Should be interesting but honestly I don't expect him to do much. GSL is way different from the normal tournaments that Stephano competes in and with time to prepare I feel like his opponents will have a pretty easy time. Maybe the play I saw from him on his stream wasn't his best so I will make sure to pay a little more attention to him in the future and then judge his chances at that point.
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On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote:
The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
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EPT
