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On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
????????
Are you really gonna fault the companies that built starcraft into what it is today for a not also building a foreign scene?
What a jerk!
More related, I think just giving someone a Code S spot is a little too much. Putting him at or near the bottom of Code A and letting him prove himself would make it significantly more appealing and still give another foreigner some air time. Skipping everything and going straight to the top in such a harshly competitive environment feels a little off. He can obviously compete with those caliber of players, but so can plenty of other amazing players that just haven't made it through all the qualifiers.
Jinro's run all the way to semi's wouldn't have been anywhere near as cool if he was invited most of the way there.
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On April 26 2012 08:03 coverpunch wrote:
It might similarly take Stephano several tries before he figures out how to show his skill in GSL. I think everyone, including Koreans, hopes he does well, but I'm not too optimistic. I certainly think it's overblown to say he'll just win the championship on his first try. It'd be a fairly pleasant surprise if he makes it to group selection IMO.
He probably will make it out of his group but has a very low chance to make it to the finals
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On April 26 2012 07:57 templar rage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:49 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
I think maintaining your seed over several seasons (like DRG and MMA did). There's a hell of a lot of Code A players who could make the Code S round of 8 with a seed and a good draw. I guess I'll rephrase because I tend to agree with this answer, but it's not really what I'm looking for. How high does Stephano need to finish where you would say "OK, that's a decent result."? I guess I'm asking what people's expectations are for him, and what he needs to do in order for you to say he met them. Because I feel like a lot of people's expectations are way too high, but I'm not sure if that's true at all.
Ro16 (especially if he finishes third in his group) is good but it depends who's in his group.
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On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
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Whoa, sweet!! I was wondering when I would see Stephano at GSL! I think he has the skills to do it and I can't wait to see how he does!
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Damn, i was hoping he was quitting, his attitude towards esports makes me sick. Its people like him that will kill it, hopfully gsl will change his mind, otherwise, good riddence
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Won't the North Koreans get a little antsy if one of America's greatest weapons is deployed to Seoul? /sarcasm
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On April 26 2012 08:06 Trumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. ???????? Are you really gonna fault the companies that built starcraft into what it is today for a not also building a foreign scene? What a jerk! More related, I think just giving someone a Code S spot is a little too much. Putting him at or near the bottom of Code A and letting him prove himself would make it significantly more appealing and still give another foreigner some air time. Skipping everything and going straight to the top in such a harshly competitive environment feels a little off. He can obviously compete with those caliber of players, but so can plenty of other amazing players that just haven't made it through all the qualifiers. Jinro's run all the way to semi's wouldn't have been anywhere near as cool if he was invited most of the way there.
I don't believe that the companies behind KESPA built Starcraft 2 into what it is today. They did nothing to promote the international scene, which is what SC 2 is, and because of their fight with Blizzard, they ended up doing nothing to promote SC 2 in Korea.
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On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
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On April 26 2012 08:16 Paladia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't.
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I would say: VERY expected
gl Stephano!
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On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them.
Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh they did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
edit: If someone was ignoring the foreign scene it was Kespa, not OGN/MBC.
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Nice to see Stephano finally stepping up to play in the big boys pool but with seeding...
I don't agree with these "random" invites to a season, sure Code A is one thing but seriously getting an invite right into the Code S.
If you win a MLG Championship, IPL, IEM, Dreamhack maybe then a Code S "exchange" is ok.
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On April 26 2012 06:08 DYEAlabaster wrote:
Gom was after Stephano since IPL3, guaranteed. Why else would they get him in the Blizzard Cup when IPL and Gom had never worked together?
Still, good to see him finally accept
Looks like we have so many insiders here knowing what's happening behind the scene.
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Well deserved spot, and a good move by GSL.
And to all those who says the only way someone should be allowed into Code S is by qualifying through Code B, and that Code S cheapens it name by having invites. Look to a major sport like tennis where all the big tournements have a couple of wildcards where the tournements themselves are free to invite whoever they like.
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On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
International BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
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The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
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On April 26 2012 08:36 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:25 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 08:09 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 08:02 1Eris1 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:39 Azarkon wrote:On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much... They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release. OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing. MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel. You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles. I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene. The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying. That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was. And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it. Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene. WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it. IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
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On April 26 2012 08:19 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:16 Paladia wrote:On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote:
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it. That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't.
Why wouldn't you belong there if you are on the same level as the players there?
As for people belonging there, lots of players in Code S got there through seeds. Such as MMA and Polt. Have you been writing post whining that MMA and Polt don't belong in Code S as well? Or are you randomly just bashing Stephano for some reason?
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EPT
