The Millenium player just announced on his stream that he received an invitation to participate next season in the stellar competition that is the GSL Code S. Stephano is going to leave for Korea within several weeks, right before the start of tournament. However, he has been saying repeatedly that the GSL wasn't his priority, but he stated he might play if his schedule allows him to. In the end, nothing's set in stone yet.
[Stephano's quote from his stream, saying what was just summarized]
If he chose to enter the tournament, Stephano would join NaNiwa in the world elite of Starcraft. The Swede, through brilliant play, secured a spot in Code S for next season, by reaching the quarter-finals of the competition.
T/N: Sorry for my sucky translation skills.
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Well, most probably this isn't the first time he got invited. This is merely a marketing thing, as Stephano is likely to accept this time.
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As encouraged by figq (page 8, next time just pm me yo), here's the previous announcement by Stephano that he will continue his gaming career for another year. Translation by me.
You probably haven't missed this news that has run rampant on all global forums: Stephano announced that he will prolong his ESPORTS career for a new season of Starcraft 2.
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
Via twitter, the Millenium player proclaimed his intention to continue his gaming career for the coming year. This decision was unclear due to the fact that Stephano merely put aside his medecine studies, planning to return to the university in september 2012. However, the recent success turned the situation upside down, due to the important tournament wins of the young French.
That's why Stephano will first return to the USA in a few weeks before reentering Korea afterwards to bathe in the Korean players' and coaches' proficiency. We will bring you an interview with Stephano in the coming days to provide you with more details on this great news.
On April 26 2012 03:01 SomeONEx wrote: unexpected, but great!
Why is it unexpected? Stephano said he would delay his studies one more year and go to korea in 1.5 months. He would NOT go to korea if he didn't have a code S seed. He would be better off staying in America/Europe with anything less.
Anyway grats! Can't wait to see Stephano vs Naniwa in the GSL
Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Stephano I think is the only foreigner who deserves a code s spot. I wouldn't have even said nani until his performance in gsl this season.
I think stephano might not fare so well in the gsl format though. But he's on of my favorite players, so gogo! Stephano vs naniwa season three finals :D
About time! He is definitely code S caliber and very capable of beating any of the best players in the world. In fact I don't think any protoss can beat him in a BoX currently, inside Korea or otherwise.
Out of every foreigner, he definitely is the one who deserves it the most. HOWEVER, i can see from this thread already that many people believe he will go very far. I do not, i think he's amazing at the game, truly the best foreigner, however, he is absolutely the most studied player with the koreans, and since GSL is obviously mainly koreans, it will be VERY difficult to push past ro32 if he meets a world class player - (Nestea, mvp, mma, mkp, MC, the list goes on). Saying that, i wish him the absolute best of luck and will cheer frantically for him to win the next GSL (along with cheering for naniwa in this gsl).
Hard to be overly optimistic about the prospects of any Zerg in the GSL, given the results of this season, but if any foreign Zerg can make an impact in the GSL, it's Stephano.
On April 26 2012 03:22 Drowsy wrote: About time! He is definitely code S caliber and very capable of beating any of the best players in the world. In fact I don't think any protoss can beat him in a BoX currently, inside Korea or otherwise.
You think that because he's rarely playing highest level protoss players. Stephano looks invincible only because he's never participated in the GSL.
On April 26 2012 03:22 ShakkaFL wrote: i hope at least the hype ends when he gets crushed at gsl <_<
The hype is not nearly as bad as it used to be. People have started to began to assess his skill much better as time has gone on. Most people know that he will get crushed by the best Koreans and hold with most mid-tier Koreans. He isn't a favorite to win Code S by any means, but I don't expect him to go 0-6 and into Code B either
lol giving free invites like that....When people like DRG,Genius and others are in code A and HuK is in code B. This is silly... gratz to stephano but I think this needs to stop giving free passes to players. I don't say Stephano doesn't deserve it but Code S and Korea is ruthless place and they already said Stephano is the most studied non-kr so I think he will be free pass in the group stages. Just because he is not familiar with Korea and this kind of tournaments where koreans pick your style apart because they have so much time to prepare and the bad side is that Stephano can't prepare for anybody because he is just thrown to the lions. I will cheer for him but i don't think he will do much.
Look how much beating every non-kr took before finally was able to produce something. Because they were thrown in code s just like that I think this creates the "imba" aura koreans have. Nobody from those invites had the time to prepare and I think its the wrong approach. Give them something like higher seeding in code b qualis or 1st round code a looks more reasonable. This invites seem to me like bo1 single eliminaton tournaments.
On April 26 2012 03:22 Drowsy wrote: About time! He is definitely code S caliber and very capable of beating any of the best players in the world. In fact I don't think any protoss can beat him in a BoX currently, inside Korea or otherwise.
MC would like a word with you (MC is 7-0 vs Stephano overall in both tournies and ladder).
At this moment in time, if any foreigner is going to win it, then it is going to be him. Thats not to disrespect any other foreigner but he is a tier above. He is the only foreigner, who when facing top korean opponents, you actually believe he can realistically beat them.
On April 26 2012 03:28 Whitewing wrote: Grats to Stephano.
I hope they invite Thorzain though for the season after :D.
why the season after? they usually give out 2 seeds, they could invite thorzain too.
They should preserve the second seed so they can get a proven Code S player back in should he get cheesed out of Code A.
i disagree, i think giving it to thorzain, the champion of dreamhack is a far more deserving seed, considering he 3-1'd the player who received the 2nd code S seed for GSL 2012 season 2.
The point of seeding foreigners into the GSL is that it compensates for an inherent disadvantage that all foreigners face -- that the tournament format forces you to be physically present in Korea for months at a time if you want to play a single game in Code S. This is not a burden on Koreans, but it is for foreigners. The seeds help to level the playing field, and it's great marketing for the GSL to boot.
This is also very relevant to the question of whether any foreigner is "deserving" of a Code S spot. Judged by results outside of Korea, someone like Stephano is a no brainer. But a lot of people think that they only way to prove oneself "worthy" of a Code S spot is to go through Code B and A, which is an unfair metric given that Koreans can take multiple runs at it with no additional cost or sacrifice to themselves, but a foreigner has to sacrifice a tremendous amount just to get ONE shot.
The folks running the GSL know what they are doing -- foreigner seeds are a great idea.
On April 26 2012 03:40 Tyree wrote: At this moment in time, if any foreigner is going to win it, then it is going to be him. Thats not to disrespect any other foreigner but he is a tier above. He is the only foreigner, who when facing top korean opponents, you actually believe he can realistically beat them.
Yes, because Naniwa isn't winning in Code S right now or anything.
On April 26 2012 03:40 Tyree wrote: At this moment in time, if any foreigner is going to win it, then it is going to be him. Thats not to disrespect any other foreigner but he is a tier above. He is the only foreigner, who when facing top korean opponents, you actually believe he can realistically beat them.
figured he would after that anoucement he was going to keep playing and travelling to kor. would be great for fans and gsl if they could get thorzain in as well. anyways im even more excited for gsl next season.
On April 26 2012 03:28 Whitewing wrote: Grats to Stephano.
I hope they invite Thorzain though for the season after :D.
why the season after? they usually give out 2 seeds, they could invite thorzain too.
They should preserve the second seed so they can get a proven Code S player back in should he get cheesed out of Code A.
i disagree, i think giving it to thorzain, the champion of dreamhack is a far more deserving seed, considering he 3-1'd the player who received the 2nd code S seed for GSL 2012 season 2.
Imagine if AcE cheeses out DRG in his Code A match. Thorzain is good. But if I have the choice, I'll put DRG back in Code S every time.
On April 26 2012 03:28 Whitewing wrote: Grats to Stephano.
I hope they invite Thorzain though for the season after :D.
why the season after? they usually give out 2 seeds, they could invite thorzain too.
They should preserve the second seed so they can get a proven Code S player back in should he get cheesed out of Code A.
i disagree, i think giving it to thorzain, the champion of dreamhack is a far more deserving seed, considering he 3-1'd the player who received the 2nd code S seed for GSL 2012 season 2.
Imagine if AcE cheeses out DRG in his Code A match. Thorzain is good. But if I have the choice, I'll put DRG back in Code S every time.
what if AcE beats DRG out in a straight up macro game? DRG wouldn't deserve the seed?
Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
Stephano and Naniwa are the only two foreigners worthy of a being invited to Code S. Happy to see Stephano finally compete against Koreans on their own turf. It will be nice to see if Stephano can prepare builds for his opponents because he says his entire strat is based on feeling and reactive play.
On April 26 2012 03:28 Whitewing wrote: Grats to Stephano.
I hope they invite Thorzain though for the season after :D.
why the season after? they usually give out 2 seeds, they could invite thorzain too.
They should preserve the second seed so they can get a proven Code S player back in should he get cheesed out of Code A.
i disagree, i think giving it to thorzain, the champion of dreamhack is a far more deserving seed, considering he 3-1'd the player who received the 2nd code S seed for GSL 2012 season 2.
Imagine if AcE cheeses out DRG in his Code A match. Thorzain is good. But if I have the choice, I'll put DRG back in Code S every time.
what if AcE beats DRG out in a straight up macro game? DRG wouldn't deserve the seed?
That's still incorrect. DRG won the recent MLG Arena over arguably better players than the ones Thorzain beat. It's a subjective decision Gom has to make and they're most likely gonna put their champion back in, who is one of the best players in the world consistently. DRG adds more to Code S than ThorZain does, no matter how AcE beats him. At least that's what I'd think if I had to make a decision.
No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
I think there is no one more deserving besides naniwa for the foreigner invite than stephano! He's been crushing koreans from the start, hopefully he can keep it up.
On April 26 2012 03:54 TBone- wrote: No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
MMA, Polt, DRG and MC have all gotten free passes to Code S and they're all champions. Free seeds aren't the most amazing thing on the planet, but Stephano is a deserving choice. He's had international success and will bring in lots of viewers. It's really the best of both worlds.
On April 26 2012 03:54 TBone- wrote: No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
MMA, Polt, DRG and MC have all gotten free passes to Code S and they're all champions. Free seeds aren't the most amazing thing on the planet, but Stephano is a deserving choice. He's had international success and will bring in lots of viewers. It's really the best of both worlds.
Oh Stephano is definitely deserving of a seed. It just enhances the story if someone works there way up instead of just taking a short cut. It would just mean so much more if he won code s by going through the traditional path.
On April 26 2012 03:45 opisska wrote: Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
I would imagine it does. Besides the fact they were seeded into the tournament, there is nothing different about them as a competitor once they're in. In fact, you could say that the top 8 from the previous season were also seeded in, and you can bet your ass they get paid. It doesn't matter how you get into the tournament. Once you do, you're entitled to whatever you win while competing.
Also, that's pretty much my opinion on the seed. I watch GSL because it's the tournament with the best players in the world. Ideally speaking, it's the top 32 players in the world. IMO, Stephano is in the top 32, so he should be there. I don't really care how players get there. If all these people stuck in Code A/B were as great as people seem to think, then they would have gotten there by now. I can appreciate that there's a lot of variance in Code B, but if you're Code S level, then you shouldn't have repeated problems trying to qualify (which most of these players who are stuck there for seasons on end apparently have).
On April 26 2012 04:09 Azarkon wrote: Who's Stephano going to live and prepare with when he goes? AFAIK Millennium doesn't have a team house there.
I'm sure he has something lined up. Iirc, he stayed with oGs the last time, so they're a decent first guess. Considering how little trouble players actually seem to have finding a team house that will let them stay, I'm sure he has/will find someone willing to lodge him.
On April 26 2012 04:09 Azarkon wrote: Who's Stephano going to live and prepare with when he goes? AFAIK Millennium doesn't have a team house there.
In a house willing to host him. Millenium seems to have good contact with TSL so maybe there or in the GOM house with the other foreigners or in oGs like last time.
On April 26 2012 03:45 opisska wrote: Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
I would imagine it does. Besides the fact they were seeded into the tournament, there is nothing different about them as a competitor once they're in. In fact, you could say that the top 8 from the previous season were also seeded in, and you can bet your ass they get paid. It doesn't matter how you get into the tournament. Once you do, you're entitled to whatever you win while competing.
Also, that's pretty much my opinion on the seed. I watch GSL because it's the tournament with the best players in the world. Ideally speaking, it's the top 32 players in the world. IMO, Stephano is in the top 32, so he should be there. I don't really care how players get there. If all these people stuck in Code A/B were as great as people seem to think, then they would have gotten there by now. I can appreciate that there's a lot of variance in Code B, but if you're Code S level, then you shouldn't have repeated problems trying to qualify (which most of these players who are stuck there for seasons on end apparently have).
.. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stephano has lost to code B players many times in the past. Polt was a code B player, and might be again very soon. I wouldn't place Stephano in the top 32 in the world, even if he is the best foreigner.
On April 26 2012 03:45 opisska wrote: Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
I would imagine it does. Besides the fact they were seeded into the tournament, there is nothing different about them as a competitor once they're in. In fact, you could say that the top 8 from the previous season were also seeded in, and you can bet your ass they get paid. It doesn't matter how you get into the tournament. Once you do, you're entitled to whatever you win while competing.
Also, that's pretty much my opinion on the seed. I watch GSL because it's the tournament with the best players in the world. Ideally speaking, it's the top 32 players in the world. IMO, Stephano is in the top 32, so he should be there. I don't really care how players get there. If all these people stuck in Code A/B were as great as people seem to think, then they would have gotten there by now. I can appreciate that there's a lot of variance in Code B, but if you're Code S level, then you shouldn't have repeated problems trying to qualify (which most of these players who are stuck there for seasons on end apparently have).
.. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stephano has lost to code B players many times in the past. Polt was a code B player, and might be again very soon. I wouldn't place Stephano in the top 32 in the world, even if he is the best foreigner.
Stephano is a top 5 Zerg, behind Nestea and DRG, but that's about it.
On April 26 2012 03:45 opisska wrote: Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
I would imagine it does. Besides the fact they were seeded into the tournament, there is nothing different about them as a competitor once they're in. In fact, you could say that the top 8 from the previous season were also seeded in, and you can bet your ass they get paid. It doesn't matter how you get into the tournament. Once you do, you're entitled to whatever you win while competing.
Also, that's pretty much my opinion on the seed. I watch GSL because it's the tournament with the best players in the world. Ideally speaking, it's the top 32 players in the world. IMO, Stephano is in the top 32, so he should be there. I don't really care how players get there. If all these people stuck in Code A/B were as great as people seem to think, then they would have gotten there by now. I can appreciate that there's a lot of variance in Code B, but if you're Code S level, then you shouldn't have repeated problems trying to qualify (which most of these players who are stuck there for seasons on end apparently have).
.. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stephano has lost to code B players many times in the past. Polt was a code B player, and might be again very soon. I wouldn't place Stephano in the top 32 in the world, even if he is the best foreigner.
And you think all the current Code S players haven't?
On April 26 2012 03:54 TBone- wrote: No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
MMA, Polt, DRG and MC have all gotten free passes to Code S and they're all champions. Free seeds aren't the most amazing thing on the planet, but Stephano is a deserving choice. He's had international success and will bring in lots of viewers. It's really the best of both worlds.
Oh Stephano is definitely deserving of a seed. It just enhances the story if someone works there way up instead of just taking a short cut. It would just mean so much more if he won code s by going through the traditional path.
Interesting question: if, hypothetically, a seeded player won on their first entry to Code S, would that count as a Royal Road or do you have to work your way through Code A first?
Does it count as a Royal Road if the GSL you win is your first Code S, but you have been in Code A before (eg Hero could potentially do this)?
On April 26 2012 04:18 Eee wrote: Thing is, if he manages to stay in Code S for next season he'll probably forfeit his spot since he gets homesick so easily. T_T
this probably. if youre going to accept code s and manage to stay there dont leave a month later like sheth did in code a after knocking out san.
On April 26 2012 03:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: He deserves a seed but I don't think he has a serious chance of winning Code S. Everybody in the current Ro8 could beat him imo.
Everybody in the ro8 could beat everyone else in the ro8. No one is unbeatable.
Just look at how long Jaedong and Flash have had 3 OSL golds. No one would have guessed that neither one of them would have a 4th by now.
It's just too bad I'm about to spoil it for everyone and reveal that JD is a few weeks out from doing just that
On April 26 2012 03:54 TBone- wrote: No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
MMA, Polt, DRG and MC have all gotten free passes to Code S and they're all champions. Free seeds aren't the most amazing thing on the planet, but Stephano is a deserving choice. He's had international success and will bring in lots of viewers. It's really the best of both worlds.
Oh Stephano is definitely deserving of a seed. It just enhances the story if someone works there way up instead of just taking a short cut. It would just mean so much more if he won code s by going through the traditional path.
Interesting question: if, hypothetically, a seeded player won on their first entry to Code S, would that count as a Royal Road or do you have to work your way through Code A first?
Does it count as a Royal Road if the GSL you win is your first Code S, but you have been in Code A before (eg Hero could potentially do this)?
I think I would define it as qualifying for Code A the first time you play the offline qualifiers, then qualify for Code S from there, then win Code S from there. It's kinda weird since Code S and Code A are much more like one giant tournament then two separate ones, so it's kind of hard to exclude Code A from such an achievement. But you can't actually do that in less than two tournaments, because you can't qualify from Code B AND win Code S in the same season.
Either way, winning Code S the first time you've qualified would be very impressive, regardless of how you got there. But if you wanted to create a "Royal Road" achievement like in BW, I think you would have to start from the beginning (Code B).
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
I'm not sure if I think anybody deserves to be offered an automatic Code S spot. I believe that even Naniwa also said in a recent interview that he disagreed with the premise of merely giving away Code S seeds, although he also said (quite rationally) that since he was being offered one, he would be stupid to turn it down.
I suppose inviting Stephano all the way into Code S would increase the number of viewers and strengthen any bonds forged between mutual sponsors and tournaments working together (especially the foreign fanbase), but there's really no reason why all players who hypothetically are Code S material shouldn't be able to make it in from the ground up (through qualifiers). I kind of feel that if you want to get into Code S, you should earn it only through managing to get through the qualifiers and Code A, which is grueling and time-consuming, but ultimately rewarding, as the GSL is, after all, the most prestigious tournament there is.
Regardless, since Stephano's being offered a seed, I hope he accepts. It's always nice to see how well the best foreigners measure up to the GSL competition, and Stephano's certainly established himself everywhere else except for the premier tournament. Nowhere to go but Korea now.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Is it just me or does it sound like stephano is not capable of making a firm statement. He seems like he is unsure about anything he says. And he is going to Korea but gsl is not his priority? Things like that makes me think he is handing out excuses in advance. Also saying things like I don't practice that much is dumb as he took a leave from school to focus on sc.
Edit: maybe a better way to put this is that he dodges competition n makes excuses? Idk
On April 26 2012 03:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: He deserves a seed but I don't think he has a serious chance of winning Code S. Everybody in the current Ro8 could beat him imo.
That's the story for every GSL code S player. Look this SICK names:
All out. And Naniwa, in his debut season got 2-0'ed too and we think it was too much level for him. He trained, and now got top 8. In code S anyone can win. The important stuff, is being consistently a code S player. And Stephano with korean training, can make it happen.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
The GSL lives up to its name for one (Global Starcraft League) and Foreigners usually bring in a lot of interest from foreign Viewers, and Stephano will have more exposure overall as well.
But I don´t see how people can hate on Gom for inviting, and on players for accepting the Seed. Yes not many foreigners have done well - so what? Isn´t that how competition works? If you don´t perform to the level that is required, you are out anyway - they thankfully changed the format and this brought a lot of dynamic into the whole process where even GSL champions are constantly pressured to perform well.
It may be the fairest to let all the foreigners go through Code A from a straight performance point of view - but people seem to forget that for example Stephano does not intend to stay there and train for months just for Code A, he simply wants to get better and in the best case reach a level where he will be able to compete with the absolute best.
Also, Koreans do get invites to foreign events as well. They are definitely more likely to get into a foreigner event than foreigners getting into Code A/S for example by playing a qualifier - but that is mainly due to them being in Korea which is THE environment and country to be in at the highest level. Not many foreigners want to go there long term - which is understandable.
I am not sure MC or MKP would like to be in a foreign country over a long period of time where everything is different from home - this is also a huge factor to performing well, being in an environment that not just exposes you to high level Starcraft but giving you comfort and peace of mind as well.
I hope Gom and Stephano get the most out of this deal - ESPORTS FIGHTING!
On April 26 2012 03:45 opisska wrote: Guys, I have a question. Liquipedia states that for code S "Ro32" finish you get $1,335 in earnings. But Ro32 is just "was in code S and lost". Does anyone know if it applies also to seeded players? That would be quite interesting financially The earning curve in code S is overall very strange - it starts quite high, but rises very slowly and then it explodes at the very top. So you get quite a nice money for just being there, but not much from getting to Ro16 for example.
I would imagine it does. Besides the fact they were seeded into the tournament, there is nothing different about them as a competitor once they're in. In fact, you could say that the top 8 from the previous season were also seeded in, and you can bet your ass they get paid. It doesn't matter how you get into the tournament. Once you do, you're entitled to whatever you win while competing.
Also, that's pretty much my opinion on the seed. I watch GSL because it's the tournament with the best players in the world. Ideally speaking, it's the top 32 players in the world. IMO, Stephano is in the top 32, so he should be there. I don't really care how players get there. If all these people stuck in Code A/B were as great as people seem to think, then they would have gotten there by now. I can appreciate that there's a lot of variance in Code B, but if you're Code S level, then you shouldn't have repeated problems trying to qualify (which most of these players who are stuck there for seasons on end apparently have).
.. you have no idea what you are talking about. Stephano has lost to code B players many times in the past. Polt was a code B player, and might be again very soon. I wouldn't place Stephano in the top 32 in the world, even if he is the best foreigner.
Aw, come on. You know who else loses to Code B players frequently? Yeah, right. Everyone.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots that you could only get through MLG results. Now we already have two Code S spots and the up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
On April 26 2012 03:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: He deserves a seed but I don't think he has a serious chance of winning Code S. Everybody in the current Ro8 could beat him imo.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots. Now we already have two Code S spots and up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
GSL is giving seeds or invites least out of all major starcraft tounaments. Go complain elsewhere.
On April 26 2012 04:52 Lordanubis wrote: Great news, and absolutely well deserved. Stephano is by FAR the best foreigner around, and I really look forward to seeing him tear it up in Code S
lmao, lets see if he could do better than Nani right now in code S r8. Stephano's fans make me dislike him lol.
Usually, I'm not a fan of invites, but Stephano is the only foreign invite so far that feels right. Naniwa's invite was so wrong after getting 0-2 1st round every code A for 3 straight times. Huk got kicked out of Code A and invited back into up and down.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots. Now we already have two Code S spots and up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
GSL is giving seeds or invites least out of all major starcraft tounaments.
That's really not much of an accomplishment when the standard should be giving out none at all.
On April 26 2012 04:52 Lordanubis wrote: Great news, and absolutely well deserved. Stephano is by FAR the best foreigner around, and I really look forward to seeing him tear it up in Code S
lmao, lets see if he could do better than Nani right now in code S r8. Stephano's fans make me dislike him lol.
Not really a Stephano fanboy, just realistic. If you look at their records over the past several months, Stepahno's is far better than Naniwa's. The ELO alone shows that much, and if you watch the two play I'd say it's hard to deny that Stephano is the better player. I play Protoss myself, but I don't mind admitting that.
I'll back any foreigner that gets to Code S at the end of the day. Right now though, Stephano is the one I'd say realistically has the best chance to get the farthest. Naniwa has done very well to get so far this season, and I'm happy for him. Could you really say realistically he's one of the top 8 players in the world though? I'm not sure.
Not sure I could completely say that about Stephano either, mind you. But Stephano would certainly be higher up on that list than Naniwa for me.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots that you could only get through MLG results. Now we already have two Code S spots and the up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
Such a well written post and encompases my thoughts exactly, everyone read this!~
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots. Now we already have two Code S spots and up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
GSL is giving seeds or invites least out of all major starcraft tounaments.
That's really not much of an accomplishment when the standard should be giving out none at all.
Why it should be standart? Because you enjoy it? Yea, thats resonable. They goal is to make money, not to please every nerd, but majority of people.
On April 26 2012 03:01 SomeONEx wrote: unexpected, but great!
Why is it unexpected? Stephano said he would delay his studies one more year and go to korea in 1.5 months. He would NOT go to korea if he didn't have a code S seed. He would be better off staying in America/Europe with anything less.
Anyway grats! Can't wait to see Stephano vs Naniwa in the GSL
Don't worry, they set everything up. I highly doubt they pull names out of a hat
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
Nah, all this makes GOM look like they actually care about globalizing the SC2 scene by encouraging foreigners to go to Korea and test their mettle. They're actually doing something about the thing that everyone on TL is complaining about, which is that they're tired of seeing Koreans win all the foreigner events.
It's good for everyone to see Naniwa doing well in GSL and hopefully Stephano will also shine. I think there have been some ugly tones to it, but people do get enthusiastic seeing these players perform well.
Is it unfair for all the Koreans who have to play through the grueling nerd hell that is qualifiers and Code B? Sure. But it's not uncommon in individual tournaments. Michelle Wie got lots of free invites to pro golf tournaments without having to qualify. It's the tournament's discretion who they invite to play.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots that you could only get through MLG results. Now we already have two Code S spots and the up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
Running a live stage international tournament without invites is difficult, running a live stage international league without invites is nigh impossible.
OGN was able to get away with it because everyone who played in the OSL lived in Korea.
Cannot WAIT. To see the best foreign zerg in the world compete in the GSL would be AWESOME, especially considering the struggle zergs have had this last season.
I have to say I don't love the idea of seeding into Code S but if there is a player that deserves his chance at it id say it would be stephano he has been playing really good for months now and taking down loads of big names.
On April 26 2012 04:52 Lordanubis wrote: Great news, and absolutely well deserved. Stephano is by FAR the best foreigner around, and I really look forward to seeing him tear it up in Code S
lmao, lets see if he could do better than Nani right now in code S r8. Stephano's fans make me dislike him lol.
Not really a Stephano fanboy, just realistic. If you look at their records over the past several months, Stepahno's is far better than Naniwa's. The ELO alone shows that much, and if you watch the two play I'd say it's hard to deny that Stephano is the better player. I play Protoss myself, but I don't mind admitting that.
I'll back any foreigner that gets to Code S at the end of the day. Right now though, Stephano is the one I'd say realistically has the best chance to get the farthest. Naniwa has done very well to get so far this season, and I'm happy for him. Could you really say realistically he's one of the top 8 players in the world though? I'm not sure.
Not sure I could completely say that about Stephano either, mind you. But Stephano would certainly be higher up on that list than Naniwa for me.
I think that Stephano is better just based on results, but I think Naniwa's play is more impressive when he plays his best because he often does these super technical builds and executes them perfectly. I mean, both of them have really good decision making and crisis management which is fun to watch. Maybe Protoss just lends itself more to more technical stuff.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots that you could only get through MLG results. Now we already have two Code S spots and the up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
Running a live stage international tournament without invites is difficult, running a live stage international league without invites is nigh impossible.
OGN was able to get away with it because everyone who played in the OSL lived in Korea.
It doesn't matter. OGN's ratings would still be better with Bisu being constantly involved in everything than without him, so they're not getting away with anything (quite the opposite). If they wanted to, they could have invented some sort of a direct-qualifier wildcard or have fans vote a player in or come up with some other fancy PR scheme to justify it like "giving the fans what they want".
GSL isn't really global or international and it's never been that. Just looking at the format it's clearly not structured to be that. There is no legitimate qualifier tournament for foreigners (other than taking part in the actual qualifiers in Korea), there's no GSL EU or GSL NA, there's no fixed rules that apply to international players. They can call it whatever they like, but it's a Korean league based around Korean competitive scene. If I remember correctly they even said at some point that Code S seeds are "sponsor invites" for popular players - so they ended up inviting Sen.
Great stuff, he is the the other foreigner (+ Naniwa) that I can imagine being able to do well in the GSL at the moment. But he is smart, the chance of making money in the GSL seems small compared to playing some tournament. More time spent in harder competition for slightly more money compared to foreigner tournaments.
On April 26 2012 05:35 Galetmonster wrote: I thought they stopped doing this shit? Stephano has not prooved himself just by playing polt in finals, if anything he should get code a
What made you think they have stop doing this? The invite of Idra, Sen or Naniwa?
On April 26 2012 05:35 Galetmonster wrote: I thought they stopped doing this shit? Stephano has not prooved himself just by playing polt in finals, if anything he should get code a
What made you think they have stop doing this? The invite of Idra, Sen or Naniwa?
Because everyone including players think that its stupid and unfair to get seeded right into code s, a shame really.
On April 26 2012 05:35 Galetmonster wrote: I thought they stopped doing this shit? Stephano has not prooved himself just by playing polt in finals, if anything he should get code a
What made you think they have stop doing this? The invite of Idra, Sen or Naniwa?
Because everyone including players think that its stupid and unfair to get seeded right into code s, a shame really.
Not everyone, and it's a bit weird to think they have stopped when you have clear evidence of the contrary in front of your eyes.
On April 26 2012 03:51 0neder wrote: He better go or he's yella! I hope he does. He's the only foreigner that I could fathom taking a GSL. Naniwa, almost...but not quite.
Stephano has yet to prove anything in the gsl. He's been beaten by top code s koreans before and that's all he's going to be facing in the gsl is top code s level koreans. I hate hype like this when his chances of getting through 30 other code s koreans+naniwa to win the gsl is almost none. It all depends on who he faces if he can adapt to what it's like in korea and to how different the gsl is to other tournaments where you know who your going to being playing ahead of time, if he does his research on his opponents it still will be very tough if he doesn't do any research on his opponents he will get crushed because you need to prepare builds for certain opponents. However we'll see how he can do when the time comes.
I think the OP should include a link and short summary to the previous announcement by Stephano that he extends his SC2 career - seems like many people didn't know about it, so they were surprised by him finally accepting the Code S which was been offered to him for many months now and he was only refusing it, because of his short-term plans so far.
On April 26 2012 05:41 nihlon wrote: I have a feeling this will end like the Naniwa vs Stephano showmatch. I'll believe it when I see it.
We might see both happen... simultaneously. ^^ Alrgiht, just very hypothetically, let's allow ourselves to dream big - alright, ready? - alright, imagine a GSL Grandfinal, on the big stadium in Seoul... Naniwa vs Stephano.
On April 26 2012 05:35 Galetmonster wrote: I thought they stopped doing this shit? Stephano has not prooved himself just by playing polt in finals, if anything he should get code a
What made you think they have stop doing this? The invite of Idra, Sen or Naniwa?
Because everyone including players think that its stupid and unfair to get seeded right into code s, a shame really.
The amount of activity in the LR thread when Naniwa played his games seems to indicate the opposite. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize GOM are doing this because of increased interest when a foreigner play, like it or not. If everyone was against it GOM wouldn't do it.
I hope he realized that he has to be in korea to get the best practice. Anyways lets just hope he does better than he did in blizzard cup and doesn't go down to code b asap.
Well this should prove to be interesting. I think whether or not Stephano succeeds or fails will ultimately come down to preparation. He's proven before that he can hold his own vs at least some code s players. It's not a question of if he has the skill it's a question of if he can apply it in the right ways in a new enviroment. Knowing every little detail about how to abuse your race on a certain map vs another race or vs a certain playstyle will be key. I hope we actually see some new inventive builds out of him, otherwise I fear he will simply to be studied to death. While not my fav playe rI don't wish to see him stomped in code s because he became too predictable.
On April 26 2012 03:51 0neder wrote: He better go or he's yella! I hope he does. He's the only foreigner that I could fathom taking a GSL. Naniwa, almost...but not quite.
Stephano has yet to prove anything in the gsl. He's been beaten by top code s koreans before and that's all he's going to be facing in the gsl is top code s level koreans. I hate hype like this when his chances of getting through 30 other code s koreans+naniwa to win the gsl is almost none. It all depends on who he faces if he can adapt to what it's like in korea and to how different the gsl is to other tournaments where you know who your going to being playing ahead of time, if he does his research on his opponents it still will be very tough if he doesn't do any research on his opponents he will get crushed because you need to prepare builds for certain opponents. However we'll see how he can do when the time comes.
Well I'm not thrilled. Another easy no effort put in free Code S. They just want to earn more money cause they know more people will watch if he is playing.
On April 26 2012 03:05 StarVe wrote: Hmm, GOM has repeatedly invited Stephano to Code S as far as I know. He just declined every single time. It's not really big news that they offer him a seed again, now, it's just to be expected, if you like it or not.
The interesting thing this time is simply that the's actually considering taking it, because he wants to go to Korea anyway.
Obviously it's also a marketing move, but that doesn't mean it isn't also based on his results.
I'm no advocate of Code S seeds, but it seems like GOM won't stop giving them out anytime soon, so I can live with their decision to give it to Stephano of all players.
Why is it a marketing move ? (marketing noob here)
Because people like me who don't normally buy gsl tickets will probably pay for that season just to watch stephano and naniwa in the tourny. (Gets more foreign fans to cough up the doe)
Yeah, and if OGN invited Bisu to OSL every time he failed to qualify, they would have gotten a lot more interest too. But they don't. Because you just don't do things like that as a serious league.
Compromising the integrity of the competition just to boost viewership makes GOM look cheap and untrustworthy. If they're willing to make exceptions like that, what else would they be willing to do when they decide they need more cash in the future?
First it started with 4 Code A spots that you could only get through MLG results. Now we already have two Code S spots and the up/down and Code A spots seem even easier to get - it doesn't even matter whether they go to foreigners who never even tried to compete in Korea or Koreans that just got knocked OUT of the competition they're being invited back in. Hell, if Bisu publicly declared he was going to switch to SC2, they'd probably invite him as well.
Show some freaking integrity, GOM.
Running a live stage international tournament without invites is difficult, running a live stage international league without invites is nigh impossible.
OGN was able to get away with it because everyone who played in the OSL lived in Korea.
It doesn't matter. OGN's ratings would still be better with Bisu being constantly involved in everything than without him, so they're not getting away with anything (quite the opposite). If they wanted to, they could have invented some sort of a direct-qualifier wildcard or have fans vote a player in or come up with some other fancy PR scheme to justify it like "giving the fans what they want".
GSL isn't really global or international and it's never been that. Just looking at the format it's clearly not structured to be that. There is no legitimate qualifier tournament for foreigners (other than taking part in the actual qualifiers in Korea), there's no GSL EU or GSL NA, there's no fixed rules that apply to international players. They can call it whatever they like, but it's a Korean league based around Korean competitive scene. If I remember correctly they even said at some point that Code S seeds are "sponsor invites" for popular players - so they ended up inviting Sen.
Inviting Bisu to every OSL helps with viewer ratings from Bisu's fans, but it causes backlashes from other players' fans, who then demand the same favoritism for their own players. This creates a situation that OGN stands to lose from, because seeding every favorite player into the OSL makes the league stale and stagnant.
Bringing foreigner players who are doing well in international tournaments to the GSL avoids this problem, because it is understood that they're only going to bring in a few foreigner players for the purpose of making the tournament international. Moreover, it doesn't make the league stale and stagnant because they bring in players they see doing well in other tournaments - not players that are fan favorites.
GOM is responding to the desires of their community, which wants to see foreigners in the GSL, and were KESPA in the same position, I think they're going to do the same. Interviews with KESPA coaches have them saying that they felt their greatest regret in BW was the failure to involve the foreigner community until it was too late.
Yet, to do so, league organizers have to give incentives, because very few foreigners are going to go live in a foreign country for months to get a shot at entering a league when there's MLG, IPL, NASL, etc. going on every month.
The best solution, IMO, is to ditch the league format of Starcraft tournaments altogether, and to run weekend tournaments with paid flight, lodging, etc.
On April 26 2012 05:42 ThePlayer33 wrote: thorzain maybe should get one. dont think stephano deserves one at all. then again no one deserves a code s spot ever.
This post was just wierd and so wrong for so many reasons. except the last part that, i dont think they should hand out seeds either.
On April 26 2012 03:54 TBone- wrote: No its cool, you can totally bypass the code a qualifiers, code a, and the bridge between code a and code s. Totally not degrading to the name of code s and is fair to all the players trying to get into the gsl.
MMA, Polt, DRG and MC have all gotten free passes to Code S and they're all champions. Free seeds aren't the most amazing thing on the planet, but Stephano is a deserving choice. He's had international success and will bring in lots of viewers. It's really the best of both worlds.
Oh Stephano is definitely deserving of a seed. It just enhances the story if someone works there way up instead of just taking a short cut. It would just mean so much more if he won code s by going through the traditional path.
Except you're completely ignoring the fact that he DOESN'T live in Korea, the rest of them do. They can partake in the Code A qualis at basically no cost to them, whereas Stephano would either need to stay in Korea (which is a hindrance to him) or fly to Korea just to try to qualify for a league that pays out basically nothing. It's just not feasible to have foreigners qualify via the Code A qualifiers. MAYBE if they held online qualifiers, but that would still have a ton of lag issues that would make the results pretty irrelevant. Yes, it'd be nice if he could realistically work his way up, but it's just not going to happen. Flying from Korea to a bunch of Euro and American LANs is just more hassle than it's worth for a shot at Code A.
I hope he will take the invite just to see if he can make it in the slaughterfest known as Code S. Don't really like that GOM gives out Code S seeds but at least they have given it to the most worthy person...
I think the hype is about right. He fights evenly with present and past codeS level players. Winning often and with not too many blowouts when he drops a series. He's certainly better than most Code A players. If you're questioning the hype or not then just look at the international elo rankings. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players
Stephano just said that he does want to play in GSL, but because it requires living in Korea for an entire month, he would try and schedule it for a month where there are no other major tournaments. Seems like he has an open invitation to take up his Code S seed, it does not seem to be fixed for a particular GSL season only.
Like Naniwa said during the group selection, it's unfair to get a seed but it's too good to decline (unless he's busy and can't go). I agree and i'll also add that they need a few foreigners in there, to get more viewers, which is what pays for it all through sponsors (which pay based on viewer numbers) and in minimal part through the stream passes.
I disagreed when they invited Idra, which was solely based on the hope of increasing viewers, this time i can agree with the decision, he's proven to be one of the best zergs. He needs to up his gameplay though, not practicing much and just laddering is a luxury not allowed in korea, where it will bring him to code b very fast.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
I guess it's a logical next step following this tweet of his:
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
And Mr Chae on Twitter was already musing about getting ThorZaiN back to Korea as well. Shall be interesting.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
Probably so, but there's just no better option that I can find among the top finishers in premier international events. Which is the criterion for Code S invitation. The others are already Code S, except for Puma, but he got runner-up in IEM not champ.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
Probably so, but there's just no better option that I can find among the top finishers in premier international events. Which is the criterion for Code S invitation. The others are already Code S, except for Puma, but he got runner-up in IEM not champ.
There will be another MLG Spring Arena, Iron Squid and the Red Bull Tournament before then so plenty of time for a better candidate to appear (or for Thorzain to prove himself more deserving). I really don't think the player pool Thorzain beat at Dreamhack is close to deserving a Code S seed.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
Probably so, but there's just no better option that I can find among the top finishers in premier international events. Which is the criterion for Code S invitation. The others are already Code S, except for Puma, but he got runner-up in IEM not champ.
There will be another MLG Spring Arena, Iron Squid and the Red Bull Tournament before then so plenty of time for a better candidate to appear (or for Thorzain to prove himself more deserving). I really don't think the player pool Thorzain beat at Dreamhack is close to deserving a Code S seed.
I just assumed they are sending the Code S invitations right now, because they asked Stephano already. Generally they have to invite people ahead of time, not sure how much ahead of time though. On the other hand, Stephano could be an exception to be invited earlier, because of his special circumstances.
Currently, there doesn't seem to be a better second candidate than Thorzain, even with weak DH pool, as you say.
Congrats to Stephano, it'll be interesting to see how he does! I know he says he's not particularly confident against the top Korean pros, but I think he has the ability to do very well.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
GSL is in a weird situation again, their is no clear choice in foreigners or even among Koreans. I mean, last season they had Naniwa/Polt and Puma was a good contender. But his latest performances make him less legit now.
Personnally i fear for Stephano, he is the antithesis of the good GSL format player (unlike Thorzain or Genius). He improvises a lot and doesn't study other players or even his own losses.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
Stephano isn't my favorite player, but he really deserves this spot due to his performance in recent months. I look forward to seeing him in the GSL next season though.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
GSL is in a weird situation again, their is no clear choice in foreigners or even among Koreans. I mean, last season they had Naniwa/Polt and Puma was a good contender. But his latest performances make him less legit now.
Personnally i fear for Stephano, he is the antithesis of the good GSL format player (unlike Thorzain or Genius). He improvises a lot and doesn't study other players or even his own losses.
I don't know what were you trying to say but, if i got it right, neither Polt nor Puma are foreigners As for Stephano, well, I don't see why he wouldn't have a good (or great) performance in GSL.
I'm really really curious to see how well he can do. I feel like there is so much over and under hype that it is hard to gauge just how well he would do. Plus, there really needs to be more zerg in code S, feels kinda stagnant x.x
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
GSL is in a weird situation again, their is no clear choice in foreigners or even among Koreans. I mean, last season they had Naniwa/Polt and Puma was a good contender. But his latest performances make him less legit now.
Personnally i fear for Stephano, he is the antithesis of the good GSL format player (unlike Thorzain or Genius). He improvises a lot and doesn't study other players or even his own losses.
I don't know what were you trying to say but, if i got it right, neither Polt nor Puma are foreigners As for Stephano, well, I don't see why he wouldn't have a good (or great) performance in GSL.
They don't only invite foreigners, just top finishers in premier international events. For the current season they invited Naniwa and Polt (who is not a foreigner).
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
Didn't we say this about NaNi?
Naniwa had been posting good results at multiple MLG's before Code S despite his awful Code A showings.
Thorzain hadn't done anything significant on LAN for a long time before this Dreamhack and even then the only game you wouldn't expect Thorzain to win was vs Polt.
Naniwa is overall quite a lot better than Thorzain is right now. I feel like Naniwa had a very fortunate bracket as well which Thorzain won't neccessarily have.
If Thorzain gets paired up against JYP, Zenio, Oz and Gumiho (on one of his bad TvT days) he could probably make Round of 8, but he could just as easily meet Parting, DRG, Ryung and Mvp.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
GSL is in a weird situation again, their is no clear choice in foreigners or even among Koreans. I mean, last season they had Naniwa/Polt and Puma was a good contender. But his latest performances make him less legit now.
Personnally i fear for Stephano, he is the antithesis of the good GSL format player (unlike Thorzain or Genius). He improvises a lot and doesn't study other players or even his own losses.
I don't know what were you trying to say but, if i got it right, neither Polt nor Puma are foreigners As for Stephano, well, I don't see why he wouldn't have a good (or great) performance in GSL.
I mean that last season, GSL had an already limited number of players they could invite. They had Naniwa. And among Koreans, they had Polt or Puma. But now they don't have any legitimate player (except Stephano) since Puma hasn't performed well in the last two tournaments he entered.
GOMTV even stated in the past after stephano left korea that they'd have a spot for him in Code S if he wanted to ever go back to korea and compete in GSL. Only problem I think Stephano will have is that GSL is alot different that going to foreign tournaments (as lots of people have brought up before) and that 12 minute roach timing will probably not work against any Code S players as they've already figured it out. And Stephano has said in interviews that he doesnt like watching replays at all. If you don't study any replays of who your playing in GSL and come up with a strategy to combat what that opponent can do then your not going to make it far. As we know koreans study replays and have very strict playing schedule when it comes to GSL. Every build Stephano has ever done on his successful road in SC2 foreign tournaments will be ripped apart by the teams and players and they'll bash their head against each strat and find the exploitable holes in them. With how Stephano plays with not much variation his how he plays GSL will be a real test to see if he changes his work ethic towards SC2 and starts looking at replays and coming up with some different styles of play.
Not knowledgable on BW so excuse the lack of names But I remember Artosis bringing this up on STOG or something and he said that this completely unknown guy took out one of the best BW players ever in a teamleague match. And this unknown pretty much studied and played against this Pro's style for months before the game and managed to figure out a BO and timing to exploit against this Pro. And when they had their game the Pro ended up losing pretty badly because of this exploited timing because he played the standard builds.
Samething might happen to Stephano if he doesnt come up with some weird timing or something completely new that no one has seen from him or the other Code S players might just rip him apart.
Not saying I'm a Stephano hater or don't want him to win. It just looks like as of now that he'll have to change how he does things and prepares when he gets to Korea or things wont go so well for him because of how everyone else in Code S prepares themselves for who they face in GSL.
Stephano's reactive style is a double edged sword really. It also means it's quite impossible to prepare for him unless you know how he reacts to certain tells and feed him false intel.
The plain ignorance that shows in this forum is just astounding... If Stephano doesn't deserve it, then please, let me know who has the best spot for this. To say that Stephano isn't code A or even code S material is just denying the fact that he could take at least a bo3 to anyone, much like any code A/B koreans.
Except we're talking about a fucking foreigner...
I don't like stephano, nor hate him, but not acknowledging his strength is just plain dumb. Did you really think he didn't deserve it just because he *doesn't* have the level or isn't that deep inside of you, you want him lose in a very shameless fashion ? I despise Stephano's fans to some extent, but i don't care. I just want to see how well he'll performs in GSL. Take it or leave it.
If he goes to Korea right before the tournament starts, I doubt he will have enough time to practice a little but before his group. I hope his natural talent will be enough to make it out.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
On April 26 2012 07:07 RaiZ wrote: The plain ignorance that shows in this forum is just astounding... If Stephano doesn't deserve it, then please, let me know who has the best spot for this. To say that Stephano isn't code A or even code S material is just denying the fact that he could take at least a bo3 to anyone, much like any code A/B koreans.
Except we're talking about a fucking foreigner...
I don't like stephano, nor hate him, but not acknowledging his strength is just plain dumb. Did you really think he didn't deserve it just because he *doesn't* have the level or isn't that deep inside of you, you want him lose in a very shameless fashion ? I despise Stephano's fans to some extent, but i don't care. I just want to see how well he'll performs in GSL. Take it or leave it.
For Chris sake...
The people who deserve Code S are the players who make it through the Code A qualifiers and win enough Code A games to get into Code S.
No one thinks Stephano isn't good enough for Code A, people think he (or anyone else) shouldn't get a free pass by doing well (but not winning) in tournaments with inferior player pools and/or formats which makes finishing well pretty easy.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
Stephano and NaNi are by far the only foreigners who would deserve a GSL seed. All other foreigners are just not consistent enough. And Steph > NaNi. NaNi only was really lucky this season that he only had to play Terran and Toss Opponents.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
That isn't what I said.
I think thorzain would do better than Sen or Idra did....
I'm not sure how stephano would do his style has been figured out a bit....
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
That isn't what I said.
I think thorzain would do better than Sen or Idra did....
I'm not sure how stephano would do his style has been figured out a bit....
A style that's given him success for a couple of months now seems hard to "figure out".
Your post represents what people were saying when he started getting known. It should be called viable by now.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
That isn't what I said.
I think thorzain would do better than Sen or Idra did....
I'm not sure how stephano would do his style has been figured out a bit....
I think Thorzain would go 0-2 in Code S (unless he drew someone who is really bad vs Terran like JYP) just like Idra and Sen did. He's probably better than those two but he'd have the same results.
On April 26 2012 06:27 BrauL wrote: Wonder who the other seed will be given to
could it be... t-t-t-t-thorzain ! sounds too good to be true, but it seems all other top-finishers in premier international events lately have Code S already
Thorzain is definitely not ready for Code S. It would be another Sen/Idra performance.
How is Idra more ready than Thorzain? And haven't seen much of Sen lately. I think the preparation format really suits Thorzain as shown in TSL3.
Thorzain left Korea because he didn't like it there. It is very unlikely he'd accept a Code S seed. Especially considering he is scaling down his gaming as he is starting university after the summer.
of course with both naniwa and stephano in next GSL, luck will have them face one another in the Ro32 or Ro16 or something unfortunate :| (i'm remembering the GSL with Idra and Jinro facing off in the Ro8 or so)
Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
Yeah, they did that and realized their mistake as soon as Brood war was relegated to only being popular in South Korea
Gom is trying to make SC2 global -> Everybody wins. Of course we want to see the best players play but it doesn't mean we don't have to segregate the two different Starcraft communities.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
Yeah, they did that and realized their mistake as soon as Brood war was relegated to only being popular in South Korea
Gom is trying to make SC2 global -> Everybody wins. Of course we want to see the best players play but it doesn't mean we don't have to segregate the two different Starcraft communities.
I guarantee once OGN or MBC start their SC2 league, it will become the main league within 3-4 seasons. You'll see...
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
Yeah, they did that and realized their mistake as soon as Brood war was relegated to only being popular in South Korea
Gom is trying to make SC2 global -> Everybody wins. Of course we want to see the best players play but it doesn't mean we don't have to segregate the two different Starcraft communities.
I guarantee once OGN or MBC start their SC2 league, it will become the main league within 3-4 seasons. You'll see...
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
I guess GOM found out that viewers pay the bills better than respect.
Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
K for those idiots who say he doesn't face GSL competition or that he'ld get wrecked by good korean players ... I may be mistaken but Stephano was ranked 6th on the korean GM server either last season or the season before ... soo yeah?
On April 26 2012 03:01 SomeONEx wrote: unexpected, but great!
idk this might of been why he is not going back to his studies or what ever he said he was doing befor sc2, but then again he prob allready made up his mind a long time ago
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
In Order to prove you belongin Code S you need to stay in Code S
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
In Order to prove you belongin Code S you need to stay in Code S
thats pretty bullshit considering only 8 out of 32 players stay in code S...
think about it, 8 players out of the 32 in code S, go out without winning a single series. but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't belong there.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
In Order to prove you belongin Code S you need to stay in Code S
Or play through Code A in order to reach Code S ;P
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
I think maintaining your seed over several seasons (like DRG and MMA did).
There's a hell of a lot of Code A players who could make the Code S round of 8 with a seed and a good draw.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
There's no way OGN are to blame for that, they're the reason there's any scene anywhere.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
I think maintaining your seed over several seasons (like DRG and MMA did).
There's a hell of a lot of Code A players who could make the Code S round of 8 with a seed and a good draw.
I guess I'll rephrase because I tend to agree with this answer, but it's not really what I'm looking for.
How high does Stephano need to finish where you would say "OK, that's a decent result."? I guess I'm asking what people's expectations are for him, and what he needs to do in order for you to say he met them. Because I feel like a lot of people's expectations are way too high, but I'm not sure if that's true at all.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
There's no way OGN are to blame for that, they're the reason there's any scene anywhere.
I agree with this guy, it's not OGN's fault, or even MBC's. Honestly it's probably sAviOr and his "crew" that fucked it all up.
On April 26 2012 07:36 ProBot wrote: K for those idiots who say he doesn't face GSL competition or that he'ld get wrecked by good korean players ... I may be mistaken but Stephano was ranked 6th on the korean GM server either last season or the season before ... soo yeah?
before you call anybody else an idiot, taking ladder results to say he deserves a code S seed is retarded.
ladder is just practice, most korean pros don't take ladder super seroius.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
In Order to prove you belongin Code S you need to stay in Code S
thats pretty bullshit considering only 8 out of 32 players stay in code S...
think about it, 8 players out of the 32 in code S, go out without winning a single series. but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't belong there.
Well it depends how you count If you get knocked out before ro8 and get back in code S the same season does that count as "staying in code S"?
I don't understand how people can say that Stephano DESERVES to be in Code S. I hate that word. He only deserves to get what he has earned, and while he has performed well in other tournaments, you cannot say that such performances should earn him a spot in an unrelated tournament.
I'm not knocking GSL's attempt to acquire a larger fan base. There's nothing wrong with that. But saying that he deserves the spot is not something that I will get behind. I would prefer no Affirmative Action for foreigners, but to each his own. I wish the best of luck to his future in GSL if he does indeed decide to compete.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
In Order to prove you belongin Code S you need to stay in Code S
thats pretty bullshit considering only 8 out of 32 players stay in code S...
think about it, 8 players out of the 32 in code S, go out without winning a single series. but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't belong there.
Yes, but how many of those players actually qualified for Code S and weren't given a free pass? Since Stephano didn't have to go through the old-fashion method of getting into Code S, he will need to perform well to show that he belongs.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I think it's worth being a little conservative on the enthusiasm for Stephano. GSL is a very different beast from foreign tournaments since it encourages preparation for specific opponents rather than the endurance and ad hoc decision-making that you need to win against many opponents over a weekend.
Naniwa had to lose a lot of games and train hardcore with ST before he got his legs under him, and the other Code S seeds have a very poor record of showing they "deserved" it.
It might similarly take Stephano several tries before he figures out how to show his skill in GSL. I think everyone, including Koreans, hopes he does well, but I'm not too optimistic. I certainly think it's overblown to say he'll just win the championship on his first try. It'd be a fairly pleasant surprise if he makes it to group selection IMO.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
I think maintaining your seed over several seasons (like DRG and MMA did).
There's a hell of a lot of Code A players who could make the Code S round of 8 with a seed and a good draw.
I guess I'll rephrase because I tend to agree with this answer, but it's not really what I'm looking for.
How high does Stephano need to finish where you would say "OK, that's a decent result."? I guess I'm asking what people's expectations are for him, and what he needs to do in order for you to say he met them. Because I feel like a lot of people's expectations are way too high, but I'm not sure if that's true at all.
You didn't ask me but personally I'm happy just as long he looks competitive and give us some good games. You don't want an invite to look completely outmatched. As long as that happen it has serverd its purpose.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
????????
Are you really gonna fault the companies that built starcraft into what it is today for a not also building a foreign scene?
What a jerk!
More related, I think just giving someone a Code S spot is a little too much. Putting him at or near the bottom of Code A and letting him prove himself would make it significantly more appealing and still give another foreigner some air time. Skipping everything and going straight to the top in such a harshly competitive environment feels a little off. He can obviously compete with those caliber of players, but so can plenty of other amazing players that just haven't made it through all the qualifiers.
Jinro's run all the way to semi's wouldn't have been anywhere near as cool if he was invited most of the way there.
On April 26 2012 08:03 coverpunch wrote: It might similarly take Stephano several tries before he figures out how to show his skill in GSL. I think everyone, including Koreans, hopes he does well, but I'm not too optimistic. I certainly think it's overblown to say he'll just win the championship on his first try. It'd be a fairly pleasant surprise if he makes it to group selection IMO.
He probably will make it out of his group but has a very low chance to make it to the finals
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S? Ignore the fact he's being seeded in, or what your thoughts on people receiving Code S seeds in general are, because it's really not relevant at all to the question.
I think maintaining your seed over several seasons (like DRG and MMA did).
There's a hell of a lot of Code A players who could make the Code S round of 8 with a seed and a good draw.
I guess I'll rephrase because I tend to agree with this answer, but it's not really what I'm looking for.
How high does Stephano need to finish where you would say "OK, that's a decent result."? I guess I'm asking what people's expectations are for him, and what he needs to do in order for you to say he met them. Because I feel like a lot of people's expectations are way too high, but I'm not sure if that's true at all.
Ro16 (especially if he finishes third in his group) is good but it depends who's in his group.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
Damn, i was hoping he was quitting, his attitude towards esports makes me sick. Its people like him that will kill it, hopfully gsl will change his mind, otherwise, good riddence
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
????????
Are you really gonna fault the companies that built starcraft into what it is today for a not also building a foreign scene?
What a jerk!
More related, I think just giving someone a Code S spot is a little too much. Putting him at or near the bottom of Code A and letting him prove himself would make it significantly more appealing and still give another foreigner some air time. Skipping everything and going straight to the top in such a harshly competitive environment feels a little off. He can obviously compete with those caliber of players, but so can plenty of other amazing players that just haven't made it through all the qualifiers.
Jinro's run all the way to semi's wouldn't have been anywhere near as cool if he was invited most of the way there.
I don't believe that the companies behind KESPA built Starcraft 2 into what it is today. They did nothing to promote the international scene, which is what SC 2 is, and because of their fight with Blizzard, they ended up doing nothing to promote SC 2 in Korea.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
On April 26 2012 03:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: He deserves a seed but I don't think he has a serious chance of winning Code S. Everybody in the current Ro8 could beat him imo.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh they did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
edit: If someone was ignoring the foreign scene it was Kespa, not OGN/MBC.
Nice to see Stephano finally stepping up to play in the big boys pool but with seeding... I don't agree with these "random" invites to a season, sure Code A is one thing but seriously getting an invite right into the Code S. If you win a MLG Championship, IPL, IEM, Dreamhack maybe then a Code S "exchange" is ok.
On April 26 2012 06:08 DYEAlabaster wrote: Gom was after Stephano since IPL3, guaranteed. Why else would they get him in the Blizzard Cup when IPL and Gom had never worked together?
Still, good to see him finally accept
Looks like we have so many insiders here knowing what's happening behind the scene.
And to all those who says the only way someone should be allowed into Code S is by qualifying through Code B, and that Code S cheapens it name by having invites. Look to a major sport like tennis where all the big tournements have a couple of wildcards where the tournements themselves are free to invite whoever they like.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
International BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't.
Why wouldn't you belong there if you are on the same level as the players there?
As for people belonging there, lots of players in Code S got there through seeds. Such as MMA and Polt. Have you been writing post whining that MMA and Polt don't belong in Code S as well? Or are you randomly just bashing Stephano for some reason?
On April 26 2012 07:35 templar rage wrote: Out of curiosity, what kind of finish does Stephano need in order for people to admit he belongs in Code S?
Probably be on the same level as the other players in Code S. Which means giving off good games, if he wins or not isn't as important. But if you want actual numbers, to be average in Code S, you'd win one game, so that's about it.
That's not really true because the other Code S player have proven they belong by winning their way there, which Stephano hasn't.
Why wouldn't you belong there if you are on the same level as the players there?
As for people belonging there, lots of players in Code S got there through seeds. Such as MMA and Polt. Have you been writing post whining that MMA and Polt don't belong in Code S as well? Or are you randomly just bashing Stephano for some reason?
MMA maintained his spot for six months and won two GSL's after receiving his seed.
Polt didn't really show he deserved his invite this time around.
There's countless players who can win a game in Code S, foreigners and Koreans, absolutely loads of players. Most professional Protoss players are capable of beating Ryung in PvT for example. What most players can't do is play through Code B, play through Code A and then beat Ryung in PvT, that's a hell of a lot harder to pull off and proves you deserve Code S. Getting invited and then winning one game does not prove it.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr....
How'd he get the invite? What tournament did he win whose prize was code S? Or do any foreign players that show that they don't suck get an invite automatically now? =P
Not that I'm complaining. I'd love to see a Naniwa vs Stephano Code S finals =D
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene.
Well considering they (kespa/ogn) were already around before Grrrr participated.... It sounds like you're just mad at them and not even bothering to look at it objectively. You can talk all you want about how they didn't care, but the fact is were it not for them TL might very well have not been a sucess or even founded, many players would not have gotten into the scene, etc.
I'm very happy with this invite. Definitely well deserved and looking forward to next GSL season where we will get to see two foreigners who can REALLY complete with the Koreans.
On April 26 2012 09:29 Jonas wrote: How'd he get the invite? What tournament did he win whose prize was code S? Or do any foreign players that show that they don't suck get an invite automatically now? =P
Not that I'm complaining. I'd love to see a Naniwa vs Stephano Code S finals =D
GSL gives out 2 Code S seeds each season now. Naniwa/Polt last season. Stephano being in GSL is going to get them a shitload of viewers.
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr....
Lol, yes it would.
I'll be honest--thinking of stephano smash korean face with zero practice makes me think of Grrr.
Stephano is such a beast, and exploits the advantages of zerg to the fullest. Never seen anyone go from "I'm expanding and spreading creep and playing passive" to "btw I have 50 roaches knocking at your door" as quickly as he does.
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
You have no idea what you're talking about. OGN and MBC are/were still well ahead of GOM in terms of viewer numbers. They stopped because no company will sponser a tournament after Savior/Blizzard-Kespa legal battles.
I didn't say they had crappy viewer numbers in Korea. I said the international scene for BW died completely and that neither OSL nor MSL escaped the fallout that resulted - ie BW becoming an insulated Korean-only scene.
The SC 2 scene we have today is the result of the WC 3, Halo, and CS scenes, which is where MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM cut their teeth before they went into SC 2. KESPA and its leagues have contributed nothing to it. They want a piece of the pie now because their own little scene is dying.
That doesn't mean anything though. OGN and MBC were always Korean centered tournaments. The entire BW foreign scene could have switched to tap-dancing and it wouldn't have affected them. Foreign BW died because Blizzard pumped a ton of money into early SC2 tournaments and all the good players switched because that's where the money was.
And, uh Kespa did to contribute it. Without the sucess of BW in Korea it's very possible there would have never been a foreign scene at all. And if there's no foreign scene, Blizzard isn't going to try and milk it.
Foreign BW was dead before SC 2. When a $10,000 online tournament held once every year is the premier league of the community, that's not a living scene.
WIthout the success of BW in Korea, there was still the WC 3 scene in Europe and China and the CS and Halo scenes in the West. It's those scenes that promoted SC 2 as the next big eSports when it was released. MLG, Dreamhack, and IEM aren't following the OSL MSL model - they're following the models they used to follow in their previous games, and they've been successful with it.
IMO, saying that KESPA and its leagues - and OSL and MSL were in bed with KESPA - aided SC 2's success because they kept BW alive in Korea is ignoring the eSports movements elsewhere in the world. KESPA is a very specific entity with a very specific vision for eSports. The rest of the world did not follow this vision.
This "dead" scene you speak of was the backbone of the SC2 foreign scene throughout most of the beta and it's the reason for the sucesses of organizations like TL. Without them, the SC2 foreign scene would be nothing compared to what it is today.
And uh, those groups promoted SC2 as the next big thing because Blizzard wanted them too. Had there not been a BW scene it would make sense that Blizzard would not put as much money into SC2's esport development because they would not have been sure of it's sucess. Even if the foreign scene was small, they still saw sizable support there and something they could build off. Going just off of other scenes is a much bigger gamble.
IMO, saying Kespa/OSL/MSL/Foreign BW scene did nothing for the SC2 foreign scene is just down right ignorant, and frankly insulting to those that worked hard to get such a scene established.
You're talking about the foreign BW scene, which is outside of the control of OSL/MSL/KESPA. The foreign BW scene has always promoted the international SC scene and SC as a global sport, and for that they have our thanks. But when it comes to OSL/MSL/KESPA, their vision for eSports was to monopolize, to control, and to promote themselves at the expense of others.
I still remember KESPA telling Nada he was not allowed to play in foreign tournaments in SC 2 during Beta. Wise up to OSL/MSL/KESPA already: they're not GOM, they never cared about you, and only started caring because BW was dying in Korea.
The foreign BW scene would not have existed were it not for Kespa/OGN/MBC. Most of it was built off of BW's sucess in Korea, as foreigners wanted to emulate them. And I'm not talking about whether they cared, I'm simply saying that they are indirectly responsible for a lot of SC2's sucess, whether you like them or not.
Yeah, and KESPA/OSL/MSL would not have existed were it not for Grrrr.... International BW did not need OSL/MSL/KESPA, and I put the achievements of foreign BW and SC 2 on those who achieved it and not those who didn't give a damn about the scene.
Well considering they (kespa/ogn) were already around before Grrrr participated.... It sounds like you're just mad at them and not even bothering to look at it objectively. You can talk all you want about how they didn't care, but the fact is were it not for them TL might very well have not been a sucess or even founded, many players would not have gotten into the scene, etc.
I was being facetious. Grrrr was an influential person, but he's still just a person, and replaceable. OSL/MSL/KESPA were influential organizations, but they were replaceable as well. You're making the mistake of thinking that because foreign BW was influenced by OSL/MSL/KESPA, it needed them. The world was moving towards eSports, and OSL/MSL/KESPA were in an opportune place at an opportune time. BW was not the first eSport and, in the West, it was not that influential when compared to WC 3, which had big sponsors and live events.
My issue with OSL/MSL/KESPA was not just that they ignored the foreign scene, but their general philosophy towards eSports. As television stations, the companies behind OSL and MSL saw eSports as made-for-television content. They wanted to keep the production of this content within Korea, and to sell that content to the rest of the world. That's why they kept their players on a tight leash and refused to let them participate in foreign cups and tournaments - because the players were the content producers, and they were not willing to share them with other organizers around the world. This kept BW localized in Korea, and the scheme of selling BW content never did work because the international public was not interested in a Korean-only eSport.
Should be interesting but honestly I don't expect him to do much. GSL is way different from the normal tournaments that Stephano competes in and with time to prepare I feel like his opponents will have a pretty easy time. Maybe the play I saw from him on his stream wasn't his best so I will make sure to pay a little more attention to him in the future and then judge his chances at that point.
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Awesome it'll be interesting to see how well he does as I'm sure he will. I could understand why he might drop SC2 though to get started on his medical career as most practitioners make a load of doe but it also takes a long time to get that high degree so shouldn't put it off for too long.
I think this is good for the starcraft community as a whole. Nothing wrong with diversifying the world competition if the foreign player should be able to hold their own.
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
I want Ret to get the other seed, he demolished Genius at DreamHack... And he was annihilating nerds left and right at that event, he deserves the other seed!
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
What the actual fuck are you talking about? All I said in that post is that that guy was wrong in saying Sheth beat Stephano. Seriously you must have just been looking hard for a fight if you tried to make something out of that post.
But if you really want to talk I'll talk. I'm sick of you and every single other Stephano fanboy calling everyone that doesn't say 100% great things about Stephano a hater, it really is ridiculous. If someone brings up a point you don't like then that person is immediately a hater. Cut it out with the fanaticism, all it does is draw negative attention to Stephano, which you obviously dislike. I guarantee that he gets most of his anti-fans from the rabid fanboys that go around calling everyone a hater. You gain absolutely nothing from defending Stephano, just like no one gains anything from blindly bashing him or any other player.
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
Funny how he did like shit in the MLG.... Again, I think he deserves the spot. But calm your tits down lol, no need to hype him that crazy.
Pfft he can do college much later! With the money he earn during SC2 it will be easy to go back to college and pay for tuition AND living expenses and booze. With the money he earns now, he won't face the same trouble older people face when going back to college i.e. the burden of work and family. Gogogo 4 more years!!
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
Funny how he did like shit in the MLG.... Again, I think he deserves the spot. But calm your tits down lol, no need to hype him that crazy.
He didn't "did like shit". Somehow if he doesn't win it, "he did like shit" lol h8ters gonna hate. Skaters gonna skate.
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
Funny how he did like shit in the MLG.... Again, I think he deserves the spot. But calm your tits down lol, no need to hype him that crazy.
He didn't "did like shit". Somehow if he doesn't win it, "he did like shit" lol h8ters gonna hate. Skaters gonna skate.
Please read my last post. Again, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a hater in any way and it is juvenile to think so. His placing in MLG was indeed quite terrible when compared to other events so saying that "he did like shit" is not far from the truth.
lol, i thought GOM liked to announce who they invited...wonder if they are mad about this, anyway interesting that hes finally going, not surprised though
On April 26 2012 12:54 Prplppleatr wrote: lol, i thought GOM liked to announce who they invited...wonder if they are mad about this, anyway interesting that hes finally going, not surprised though
Incoming unvitation so that they can re-invite him again with their own thread.
On April 26 2012 08:46 M7Jagger wrote: The guy didn't even make it to pool play in MLG, getting knocked out by some random dude, he has no place in GSL.
He lost to polt 2-1 and Sheth 0-2. Nothing wrong with losing to those beasts.
Wrong, Polt in Winners then Inori in Losers semis. Then Idra went on to take down Inori.
So Stephano got 1 bad tournament in 2012 and that disqualify him lol?
He got 2nd at Assemply, won lonestar crash got top 6 in IPL 4(basically a GSL). Won countless online tournament was the only foriegner who qualified to NASL him and 7 koreans and the list goes on.
No one deserve a code S spot more then him. Its funny watching all these haters and all the crap they spout. We heard it all since IPL 3 where we told them Stephano is the real deal and people where laughing. Well who laugh now? Stephano does all the way to the bank
Stephano have had an amasing 2012 and it only have just begun watch him he will do big things
Funny how he did like shit in the MLG.... Again, I think he deserves the spot. But calm your tits down lol, no need to hype him that crazy.
He didn't "did like shit". Somehow if he doesn't win it, "he did like shit" lol h8ters gonna hate. Skaters gonna skate.
Well just look at his results, i don't have to argue with u lol.
I'm happy Stephano will be in Code S, so that we can finally reach an agreement on the matter of he really belongs in the selected group of code S players. GL to him
So now we may have a foreinger protoss and a zerg in the code S. Who will be the first terran? At this point i would say Thorzain but i don't quite think he is at that level yet. Not sure if he would want it either.
Zerg fanboy Mr Chae has been waiting for this moment for a while I bet
If he trains really hard, he should at the very least show some good games. Obviously anyone in the R32 can be knocked out in the first round, (hi DRG), so he'll need some luck to advance I think even though I believe he's easily the best foreigner.
Best news for a long time Could imagine that since he announced on Facebook that he will going to go to Korea. Now it's time for him to show us his best. Gogo Stephano.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
Yeah, they did that and realized their mistake as soon as Brood war was relegated to only being popular in South Korea
Gom is trying to make SC2 global -> Everybody wins. Of course we want to see the best players play but it doesn't mean we don't have to segregate the two different Starcraft communities.
I guarantee once OGN or MBC start their SC2 league, it will become the main league within 3-4 seasons. You'll see...
How you guarantee? Wanna bet?
Sure I'll bet. But how are we gonna decide which league is the main league? It's partially subjective, and bets need to resolvable easily.
How about the TL admins vote which is the main league. (Like, in SC1, there was OSL and MSL but it was basically accepted that OSL is more important)
Even tho I should be getting favored odds, I'm willing to offer 1:1 for $20. The bet is decided after the 4th season is concluded. ok?
It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
On April 26 2012 20:08 jaydee81 wrote: It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
gsl is better than ever imo. The quality of play is amazing and production is better.
Foreigners just dont cut it, they cant compete with the top koreans and I highly doubt stephano will get very far. Maybe if he stays in korea for a while and adjusts his playstyle to the korean meta then maybe he can do well, but atm i think theres little hope
Stephano has been raised to believe a university education is the most important thing in life (not saying that is wrong or right) but put yourself in his shoes, he is 19 years old now and is making tons of money (more then I think most doctors make a year ) and gets to travel the globe, party and play games for a living.... yeah I'm starting to think we will have Stephano around for a long time to come
On April 26 2012 20:08 jaydee81 wrote: It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
gsl is better than ever imo. The quality of play is amazing and production is better.
Foreigners just dont cut it, they cant compete with the top koreans and I highly doubt stephano will get very far. Maybe if he stays in korea for a while and adjusts his playstyle to the korean meta then maybe he can do well, but atm i think theres little hope
Funny thing Mr. G we have heard all that before since IPL 3. Then blizzard cup where everyone sayd he would go 0-4 instead he won convincing against DRG and Hero. Lonestar crash?, everyone sayd Polt gonna beat him again. IPL 4? no one gaved him a chance in hell to take top 6.
But he did. The thing with Stephano is he rarely disappoint. Allways solid and I belive if he gets more ZvT practise he will go fare.
I think IPL 4 is a rally good indicator of Stephano´s placement in future GSL if he can avoid the TvZ specialist like MMA,alive,MKP he will do very fine
On April 26 2012 20:08 jaydee81 wrote: It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
gsl is better than ever imo. The quality of play is amazing and production is better.
Foreigners just dont cut it, they cant compete with the top koreans and I highly doubt stephano will get very far. Maybe if he stays in korea for a while and adjusts his playstyle to the korean meta then maybe he can do well, but atm i think theres little hope
Funny thing Mr. G we have heard all that before since IPL 3. Then blizzard cup where everyone sayd he would go 0-4 instead he won convincing against DRG and Hero. Lonestar crash?, everyone sayd Polt gonna beat him again. IPL 4? no one gaved him a chance in hell to take top 6.
But he did. The thing with Stephano is he rarely disappoint. Allways solid and I belive if he gets more ZvT practise he will go fare.
I think IPL 4 is a rally good indicator of Stephano´s placement in future GSL if he can avoid the TvZ specialist like MMA,alive,MKP he will do very fine
Then there's MLG where they said he would roll through TheSTC and Boxer, yet he lost to both. Then there's Inori who everyone thought wouldn't stand a chance, yet Stephano still lost to him. Then look at Homestory cup he lost to MKP, Sound, and MC. Look at Assembly Winter, he lost to Polt. Look at MLG Arena, he lost to Polt once again. Just because he took a game off hero and DRG in a bo1 setting and beat polt in 1 tournament doesn't mean he hasn't failed quite considerably. Yes he has succeeded, but in the end there are more instances where he has failed. IPL is a terrible indicator of his skill. If anything he had to get lucky to even get out of the first round of the playoffs (he got the only 1st seed that was bad vZ- ST.Bomber).
You mention how he has to dodge great vZ players in order to make it. Well half the Terrans left in code S are either great against zerg or have beaten him before. This isn't even including players such as DRG and Nestea and Squirtle who are also great against Z.
Is Stephano a good player? Yes Will he just roll through Code S? Very unlikely.
Making top 6 of a foreign tournament doesn't mean you can get top 6 in GSL. It's a completely different game. I guarantee you when everyone knows their opponent and has weeks to prepare against Stephano, they will win because of how inflexible his playstyle is.
On April 26 2012 20:08 jaydee81 wrote: It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
gsl is better than ever imo. The quality of play is amazing and production is better.
Foreigners just dont cut it, they cant compete with the top koreans and I highly doubt stephano will get very far. Maybe if he stays in korea for a while and adjusts his playstyle to the korean meta then maybe he can do well, but atm i think theres little hope
Funny thing Mr. G we have heard all that before since IPL 3. Then blizzard cup where everyone sayd he would go 0-4 instead he won convincing against DRG and Hero. Lonestar crash?, everyone sayd Polt gonna beat him again. IPL 4? no one gaved him a chance in hell to take top 6.
But he did. The thing with Stephano is he rarely disappoint. Allways solid and I belive if he gets more ZvT practise he will go fare.
I think IPL 4 is a rally good indicator of Stephano´s placement in future GSL if he can avoid the TvZ specialist like MMA,alive,MKP he will do very fine
Then there's MLG where they said he would roll through TheSTC and Boxer, yet he lost to both. Then there's Inori who everyone thought wouldn't stand a chance, yet Stephano still lost to him. Then look at Homestory cup he lost to MKP, Sound, and MC. Look at Assembly Winter, he lost to Polt. Look at MLG Arena, he lost to Polt once again. Just because he took a game off hero and DRG in a bo1 setting and beat polt in 1 tournament doesn't mean he hasn't failed quite considerably. Yes he has succeeded, but in the end there are more instances where he has failed. IPL is a terrible indicator of his skill. If anything he had to get lucky to even get out of the first round of the playoffs (he got the only 1st seed that was bad vZ- ST.Bomber).
You mention how he has to dodge great vZ players in order to make it. Well half the Terrans left in code S are either great against zerg or have beaten him before. This isn't even including players such as DRG and Nestea and Squirtle who are also great against Z.
Is Stephano a good player? Yes Will he just roll through Code S? Very unlikely.
Making top 6 of a foreign tournament doesn't mean you can get top 6 in GSL. It's a completely different game. I guarantee you when everyone knows their opponent and has weeks to prepare against Stephano, they will win because of how inflexible his playstyle is.
You hate Foreigners winning. All your posts basically talk about how you much prefer Koreans to win. So let's not pretend you are close to being objective here. Players like Naniwa and Stephano winning matches in GSL is your personal nightmare. I am a Stephano fan and a fan of Foreign players. You hate Stephano and Foreign players doing well.
The fact remains that Stephano has beaten many of the players in this season's Code S in Tournament matches. There is no reason to believe he cannot do the same in the GSL. Yes there are many extremely strong opponents in Code S. Stephano is strong too. They can beat Stephano, but Stephano can beat them too. It's all about execution on the day.
Do I think he will win GSL in his first season? No. I do think he is on the same level as many of this seasons Code S players. You talk about Stephano being inflexible and yet he won games off 5 Code S level players in the recent IPL4. After weeks of preparation DRG and Hero still lost to him in Blizzard Cup. Polt has played Stephano countless times and yet still the games between them are often really, really close and Polt still loses games to him.
Nestea says Stephano is the best Foreigner, MC says he is Code S Level, Polt says he is a genius. GOM thinks Stephano is worthy of a seed. I'll go with their assessment rather than one from a self-confessed hater of Stephano and all Foreign players.
On April 27 2012 00:00 revel8 wrote: Nestea says Stephano is the best Foreigner, MC says he is Code S Level, Polt says he is a genius. GOM thinks Stephano is worthy of a seed. I'll go with their assessment rather than one from a self-confessed hater of Stephano and all Foreign players.
Very good point here, considering Pros from Korea and abroad consider Stephano to be code S quality and considering he was given a spot to compete, all discussions wondering whether he as the level to play there or not are just ridiculous. None of us is qualified to judge that and people who are judged him capable. It's totally restarted to question that.
What can be questioned is whether he'll do good or not. And even if he doesn't in the first season, it wouldn't mean he's not capable of competing with these players. GSL as such a great amount of luck based on who you will encounter. MKP is amazingly good lately but he just happened to face a Terran Beast who could very likely only qualify trough TvT (Taeja) and the only Protoss that regularly compete's with him toe to toe (Parting). Therefore, he dropped to code A. Does that mean MKP is not a code S quality player. OFC it doesn't, it just means he was unlucky enough to face the only opponents that had a chance at defeating him at this moment. Same could happen with Stephano but once again, questioning whether he is a code S quality player or not is just retarded since the people who are most capable of judging that already consider him to be code S quality. Haters ans fanboys on forum don't matter ...
I always found it funny when people claimed he was a one hit wonder and that once his "inflexible style" was figured out he'd be smashed and dissappear from the scene. Even funnier how the most vocal critic of his who said this (IdrA) now copies his ZvT completely pretty much, except not as well obviously.
It was obvious back then how classy he was, and still is now. I don't expect him to do that well in Code S, luck of the draw, how well you play on the night will all play a major part, but he can certainly put up a good fight that's for certain, as he's proven in the past.
On April 26 2012 20:08 jaydee81 wrote: It would be great if he accepted. For me personally GSL is not what it used to be. Now with Nani it's better of course, another foreigner would be great.
gsl is better than ever imo. The quality of play is amazing and production is better.
Foreigners just dont cut it, they cant compete with the top koreans and I highly doubt stephano will get very far. Maybe if he stays in korea for a while and adjusts his playstyle to the korean meta then maybe he can do well, but atm i think theres little hope
On April 26 2012 03:40 Melix wrote: The point of seeding foreigners into the GSL is that it compensates for an inherent disadvantage that all foreigners face -- that the tournament format forces you to be physically present in Korea for months at a time if you want to play a single game in Code S. This is not a burden on Koreans, but it is for foreigners. The seeds help to level the playing field, and it's great marketing for the GSL to boot.
This is also very relevant to the question of whether any foreigner is "deserving" of a Code S spot. Judged by results outside of Korea, someone like Stephano is a no brainer. But a lot of people think that they only way to prove oneself "worthy" of a Code S spot is to go through Code B and A, which is an unfair metric given that Koreans can take multiple runs at it with no additional cost or sacrifice to themselves, but a foreigner has to sacrifice a tremendous amount just to get ONE shot.
The folks running the GSL know what they are doing -- foreigner seeds are a great idea.
That is very well said. It is supposed to be the Global Starcraft League.
On April 27 2012 01:24 mongmong wrote: LOL at people thinking Stephano can become a GSL champ.
I think people are forgetting what happened aginst MMA at IPL4.
I at least thought the chance of winning for stephano was 50:50 but
look at how the games turned out. MMA absolutely outclassed him.
Even a better zerg like DRG falls to Code A a minute he makes a mistake (or a bad day)
So what, he lost a game? He also won some. It's not a matter of who he beat or who he lost to, it's a matter of how much can he consistently play at his best and how lucky he is with the groups. Let's say he gets a group like Oz, Parting, STC in RO32, he could totally crush that. Now put him against MMA, Nestea and MKP in RO16 and he might not win a single map. Guess what? That's luck !!! And when evaluating a player you don't base yourself on one game.
On April 27 2012 01:24 mongmong wrote: LOL at people thinking Stephano can become a GSL champ.
I think people are forgetting what happened aginst MMA at IPL4.
I at least thought the chance of winning for stephano was 50:50 but
look at how the games turned out. MMA absolutely outclassed him.
Even a better zerg like DRG falls to Code A a minute he makes a mistake (or a bad day)
Losing to MMA in his weakest matchup who are a TvZ specialist are nothing to be ashamed off. With you logic Leenock is a bad zerg also becuase he gets stompede by every protoss he face? Nahh im affriad you need to open you eye´s abit. No one got 80% win in all 3 matchup. As good as MMA are in TvZ as bad are he in TvP..
If Stephano can avoid the TvZ killers he will do really well.
And btw just a tip when you try to analyse a players skill lvl take the last 6months to get a clear picture then you would know Stephano´s strenght and weaknes. Taking 1 Match just make you look like a fool
Btw I can do the same as you if I wanted to analyse Bombers skill lvl. Look at Bomber he got absolutely outclassed by Stephano in IPL 4. Bomber are horrible. o.0. Herp derp
So what, he lost a game? He also won some. It's not a matter of who he beat or who he lost to, it's a matter of how much can he consistently play at his best and how lucky he is with the groups. Let's say he gets a group like Oz, Parting, STC in RO32, he could totally crush that. Now put him against MMA, Nestea and MKP in RO16 and he might not win a single map. Guess what? That's luck !!! And when evaluating a player you don't base yourself on one game.
Your argument is worthless.
LOL. did u even watch parting and oz play yesterday???????
i dunno if uve seen any gsl matches ,but GSL isnt about "playing a damn good macro game"
Its more about how u prepare against a certain player and improvise what strategies to use each round.
From what ive seen, stephano is always damn predictable: play a straight up macro game, and all the korean
players know this and will most likely take advantage of this by using a mix of all in and macro games. what im
saying is that he is very likely to get sniped. i agree that he is capable of beating STC, but oz and parting???
Losing to MMA in his weakest matchup who are a TvZ specialist are nothing to be ashamed off. With you logic Leenock is a bad zerg also becuase he gets stompede by every protoss he face? Nahh im affriad you need to open you eye´s abit. No one got 80% win in all 3 matchup. As good as MMA are in TvZ as bad are he in TvP..
If Stephano can avoid the TvZ killers he will do really well.
And btw just a tip when you try to analyse a players skill lvl take the last 6months to get a clear picture then you would know Stephano´s strenght and weaknes. Taking 1 Match just make you look like a fool
Btw I can do the same as you if I wanted to analyse Bombers skill lvl. Look at Bomber he got absolutely outclassed by Stephano in IPL 4. Bomber are horrible. o.0. Herp derp.
you stephano fanboys need to chill out, bomber isnt even at the same level as other code s players (except some like
inca who got damn lucky) and yes bomber has been showing some god-awful matches. beating bomber doesnt
make u a top tier player. Im 100% sure stephano doesnt make it out of ro32.
It's pretty funny cause people like you will probably say things like "stephano is awful at this game, he did not get past the RO32, see ?!".
You have to know that in gsl code S season, your dear loved MMA didn't make it out of ro32 too, you know, as well as DRG, Jjakji, and Nestea, 3 formers champions and still AWESOME players today.
So what, he lost a game? He also won some. It's not a matter of who he beat or who he lost to, it's a matter of how much can he consistently play at his best and how lucky he is with the groups. Let's say he gets a group like Oz, Parting, STC in RO32, he could totally crush that. Now put him against MMA, Nestea and MKP in RO16 and he might not win a single map. Guess what? That's luck !!! And when evaluating a player you don't base yourself on one game.
Your argument is worthless.
LOL. did u even watch parting and oz play yesterday???????
i dunno if uve seen any gsl matches ,but GSL isnt about "playing a damn good macro game"
Its more about how u prepare against a certain player and improvise what strategies to use each round.
From what ive seen, stephano is always damn predictable: play a straight up macro game, and all the korean
players know this and will most likely take advantage of this by using a mix of all in and macro games. what im
saying is that he is very likely to get sniped. i agree that he is capable of beating STC, but oz and parting???
LOL
You talk way too much boy. Yeah I actually saw those matchs since I'm writing articles about it for a website, but this is not what matters. You're loosing yourself in korean fanatism like a dog looses itself to sniffing it's own ass.
I'm not saying Stephano is the best player on Earth or whatever you think you read, I'm saying that you shouldn't judge people based on one game, and you shouldn't forget about the huge amount of luck that is involved in getting to RO8 in a GSL. Stephano's style doesn't revolve around straight up macro games all the time, it revolves around safety to the point where he can play a straight up macro game. The argument of studying his style his crap, since all players (him included) can do that before their match. Now Stephano is cocky enough not to do it ... I'll give you that ... but still ...
And once again I'm not here to argue whether he's gonna win or not, I'm just saying the guy deserves his seed and could definitely do something in the GSL. If you don't believe this, go talk to MC, Nestea and Mr Chae and explain them how wrong they are ... You seem to understand things so much better than everyone ...
It seems to me that Stephano's haters are hating him because of his hype. This has happened since his debut. The higher the hype the lower skill a player must have. I don't think they can judge based on his play and performance.
On April 27 2012 02:15 YourMom wrote: It seems to me that Stephano's haters are hating him because of his hype. This has happened since his debut. The higher the hype the lower skill a player must have. I don't think they can judge based on his play and performance.
yeah, stephano is the biggest retardmagnet ive seen
On April 27 2012 01:24 mongmong wrote: LOL at people thinking Stephano can become a GSL champ.
I think people are forgetting what happened aginst MMA at IPL4.
I at least thought the chance of winning for stephano was 50:50 but
look at how the games turned out. MMA absolutely outclassed him.
Even a better zerg like DRG falls to Code A a minute he makes a mistake (or a bad day)
yeh because losing once proves you are shit... how about polt? one tournament polt hammered him,next stephano beat him then polt did it again... not everyone can win... and also sometimes if youlook at previous finals... the draw can alsogo in your favour...
i dont think he will winit, but if he wins gameand even if he gets knocked out so what, the is somany top players and people just want him to do well!!!
On April 27 2012 01:24 mongmong wrote: LOL at people thinking Stephano can become a GSL champ.
I think people are forgetting what happened aginst MMA at IPL4.
I at least thought the chance of winning for stephano was 50:50 but
look at how the games turned out. MMA absolutely outclassed him.
Even a better zerg like DRG falls to Code A a minute he makes a mistake (or a bad day)
Well Nani is in the Ro8, and Stephano is better than NaNi, so who knows. (Still think it's veeeery unlikely though)
Nani had a decent draw and he was helped by GSL Code S players being mediocre vs. Protoss.
Protoss snipers aren't very plentiful in the GSL, but Zerg snipers are. This is the problem for Stephano - he plays Zerg, and the GSL is full of Zerg snipers.
I don't think he's going to make it very far, though skill-wise he is up there with Naniwa. But it does depend on the group - get him in a group with the worst vZers in Code S and he has a shot, but that's not saying a lot because the worst vZers in Code S are still better than Ryung's vP.
On April 27 2012 01:24 mongmong wrote: LOL at people thinking Stephano can become a GSL champ.
I think people are forgetting what happened aginst MMA at IPL4.
I at least thought the chance of winning for stephano was 50:50 but
look at how the games turned out. MMA absolutely outclassed him.
Even a better zerg like DRG falls to Code A a minute he makes a mistake (or a bad day)
Well Nani is in the Ro8, and Stephano is better than NaNi, so who knows. (Still think it's veeeery unlikely though)
Nani had a decent draw and he was helped by GSL Code S players being mediocre vs. Protoss as a rule.
Protoss snipers aren't very plentiful in the GSL, but Zerg snipers are. This is the problem for Stephano - he plays Zerg, and the GSL is full of Zerg snipers.
I don't think he's going to make it very far, though skill-wise he is Naniwa's equal. But it does depend on the group - get him in a group with the worst vZers in Code S and he has a shot.
That's a great point. If Stephano went he would definitely be one of the top zergs in the GSL (he's better than most of the Code A zergs) but that doesn't really mean much.
On April 27 2012 02:13 mongmong wrote: Korean fanatism????
LOL
this is kinda funny cuz the thing i dispise most in starcraft 2 is "korean pride"
bullshit and ur addressing my opinion as 'korean fanatism'??///
its kinda convinient for u to put it as 'korean fanatism'
LOL LOL well lets see how it turns out in the next season
That's your answer ??? I mean seriously, you make a big deal of how much you seem to know how things work in Korea and when someone explains something with clear arguments your answer is "LOL LOL ... Bullshit ... LOL" ...
On April 27 2012 02:40 latan wrote: I have the theory that stephano haters are just idra fanbois going through an existential crisis.
I personally think stephano could easily stay in code s, but winning it? sure he could do it, after a lot of work and some luck.
that was my theory long time ago but i have another one which seems to be much more likely: these haters are not idra fanboys but huk fanboys. keep an eye on it and you will see
On April 27 2012 02:40 latan wrote: I have the theory that stephano haters are just idra fanbois going through an existential crisis.
I personally think stephano could easily stay in code s, but winning it? sure he could do it, after a lot of work and some luck.
that was my theory long time ago but i have another one which seems to be much more likely: these haters are not idra fanboys but huk fanboys. keep an eye on it and you will see
Interesting statement, I had the feeling for quite a while that Huk was slowly getting Idraed since he joined EG ...
There is no doubt in my mind stephano has amazing talent. Just the fact that he can compete with top level koreans while living outside korea says it alll. My only complaint is he doesn't always seem to appreciate it. I mean, c'mon show some enthusiasm during the interviews...
Losing to MMA in his weakest matchup who are a TvZ specialist are nothing to be ashamed off. With you logic Leenock is a bad zerg also becuase he gets stompede by every protoss he face? Nahh im affriad you need to open you eye´s abit. No one got 80% win in all 3 matchup. As good as MMA are in TvZ as bad are he in TvP..
If Stephano can avoid the TvZ killers he will do really well.
And btw just a tip when you try to analyse a players skill lvl take the last 6months to get a clear picture then you would know Stephano´s strenght and weaknes. Taking 1 Match just make you look like a fool
Btw I can do the same as you if I wanted to analyse Bombers skill lvl. Look at Bomber he got absolutely outclassed by Stephano in IPL 4. Bomber are horrible. o.0. Herp derp.
you stephano fanboys need to chill out, bomber isnt even at the same level as other code s players (except some like
inca who got damn lucky) and yes bomber has been showing some god-awful matches. beating bomber doesnt
make u a top tier player. Im 100% sure stephano doesnt make it out of ro32.
MMA didnt make it out of ro32 DRG didnt either and if Stephano doesnt whats you point? Starcraft 2 is not black and white. Seriously do you people actually watch starcraft?? When we go on the very top where Stephano are he can lose and win against everyone and that goes for every top player in the world..
Thats why you need to a period of time to really understand a players strenght and weaknesses. There is alot of X-factors involved. And you forgot the biggest X-factor of them all. What are his time in Korea gonna do to his play? Its safe to assume Stephano will only get better.
We are not saying Stephano gonna steamroll Code S. What we are saying are it depends of the X-factors. If Stephano can avoid the TvZ specialist he will do well im quite sure.
and btw is funny you smacking Bomber. He won his group in IPL4 he must be really bad.
You haters really need to come down to reality and accept it that Stephano since IPL 3 is among the top players in the world and no matter how much you dislike the kid you really cant dismiss his skilllvl anymore
As nice as the thought is. I'm really opposed to any sorts of handouts that let players without following proper protocol. If I were a Korean competing I would be very frustrated. I understand he's going down there for several months of training, but it really is a slap in the face of other competitors and makes your format look somewhat of a joke.
I like what Stephano is doing. I think he's very good, but going around your format to add another foreigner for flavor and bring in more ratings. It's a crap chute for the other players.
I really hope he takes this seriously. There are so many players who would love to have this opportunity. I hope he gives it his all, if he accepts the invite, and doesn't just play to see how it ends up.
On April 27 2012 03:02 RoTaD wrote: "I don't always go to Korea, but when I do, I win the GSL."
haha that was a good one : )
Yeah, that's a pretty good one. I hope that happens.
But like Nestea, MKP, DRG, Genious or MC, Stephano can also lose and even drop down to Code A but that still wouldn't mean that he's not an awesome player.
I originally had Naniwa also on that list but since he's actually still there to possibly even win the current code S championship I want to keep the faith.
I know Stephano has done very well in past tournaments, but from the announcement it sounds like Gom is just inviting him because he seems like a good player? That's kind of surprising, and seems a bit unfair for all the players who have to go through the qualifiers and code A.
From their format it looks like they have room for 2 code S seeds, I wonder if those spots are tied to a specific major tournament or just Gom's discretion.
Well anyways, I suppose the lone star clash could be interpreted as being worthy for a code S seed in addition to his previous performances. Not sure though; the players at certain tournaments could be less challenging than a korean filled qualifier and code A bracket.
On April 27 2012 04:45 radscorpion9 wrote: I know Stephano has done very well in past tournaments, but from the announcement it sounds like Gom is just inviting him because he seems like a good player? That's kind of surprising, and seems a bit unfair for all the players who have to go through the qualifiers and code A.
From their format it looks like they have room for 2 code S seeds, I wonder if those spots are tied to a specific major tournament or just Gom's discretion.
Well anyways, I suppose the lone star clash could be interpreted as being worthy for a code S seed in addition to his previous performances. Not sure though; the players at certain tournaments could be less challenging than a korean filled qualifier and code A bracket.
Mr.Chae have tryed to get Stephano since IPL 3. Its pretty commen knownledge all Stephano got todo is ask for it. His victory at lonestar clash got nothing todo with the invite.
But a very high concistency in tournament does. His IPL 3, ESWC championship, 2nd and 3rd place Assemply. Did really well at blizzard cup. Lonestar champion, IPL 4 UK qualifier champion and top 6 IPL 4 indeed does. + a million online tournament wins, and he have done that in under a year.
And as fare as I know Stephano got an invite to GSL right after Blizzard cup but he turned it down becuase he wanted to go home to Frence
It'll be a good test of his PVZ, especially in that format. People are going to study and memorise his playstyle, and it's going put a lot of pressure on him to do well.
I think he's such a great player in foreign tournaments(like all of them except GSL) because he plays by how he feels whats right to do and doesn't plan extremely specific things. I see this as his downfall in GSL though(assuming he competes in it). Reasoning behind this is that he doesn't practice much and the players he will be playing against do. They will also put in the effort to study his playstyle and try to "counter" what he does. I don't think that he would actually put in the effort or if he does, it'll be less effort seeing how it was never his full intentions to play in GSL.
First off..Stephano is the best foreigner. Hands down, there is no argument. GSL is more about the match ups and getting favorable draws (naniwa?) If Stephano can get some momentum, confidence and favorable match ups, he can prove all you ignorant haters wrong, not saying hes going to win, but GSL is such a shit fest you never know who will come out on top.
Stephano is the best foreigner, there is no doubt. He is also one of the most skilled SC2 player. I would love to see him in the GSL (and that he trains for it)!
Why are People saying stePhano is better than nani??? See? This is why i hate thw stephano hype. Every time he does something well people start praising him but busy bashing nani when he is kicking ass in gsl so no stephano is no foreign hope. I would put more faith in huk and nani i know huks been awful but he is coming back
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
I also don't think he has a legit chance at winning, whereas I think Stephano does. Although it'll be interesting to see if he can play as well when opponents have time to prepare specifically for him, unlike other tourneys where there's no time to prepare at all and it's more about how you play in general, which are the only tourneys he's been in so far.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
I also don't think he has a legit chance at winning, whereas I think Stephano does. Although it'll be interesting to see if he can play as well when opponents have time to prepare specifically for him, unlike other tourneys where there's no time to prepare at all and it's more about how you play in general, which are the only tourneys he's been in so far.
There's far too many Terran's in Code S who thoroughly outclass Stephano in TvZ for him to win. Not to mention guys like MC and Nestea who also has winning records vs him.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Virus has TvP as best matchup. I agree Nani had an rather easy route. But as you said, a lot of other players had as well. So do we have to be so negative? GSL has always been about a lot of luck. Ro8 doesnt mean at all that you are a top8 player. Lets just acknowledge Nani made it there while everyone was expecting him to continue his bad GSL record.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Virus has TvP as best matchup. I agree Nani had an rather easy route. But as you said, a lot of other players had as well. So do we have to be so negative? GSL has always been about a lot of luck. Ro8 doesnt mean at all that you are a top8 player. Lets just acknowledge Nani made it there while everyone was expecting him to continue his bad GSL record.
For me it's always been about Stephano's potential. He adapts better than any player I've ever seen so while I doubt very much he'll have a chance of winning the next gsl, with an extended period in Korea I see no reason why he can't be a strong contender.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
Oh please, I don't care who you have to play, saying things like "bla bla he only had to play p and t, his opponents weren't the best, his opponents weren't at top shape" are just bad excuses. Like I said, I don't care who you have to play against, Code S is the hardest competition there is, and there are no easy matches, regardless of what MU's there are or what players who have to play, Code S is super hard and you don't get to Ro8 in Code S, you simply cannot rely on something like that and get to Ro8, maybe wake a map, maaaybe even a whole series, but not Ro8.
But some just won't accept the fact that Naniwa is the best foreigner right now. Even if he would win the whole thing some idiots would still scream "STEPHANO, HUK", but the stats says it all, nani is in Ro8 in Code S and neither HuK or Stephano is.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Ofc luck exists, but you don't make it to Ro8 in Code S with luck only. Just because HuK gets to play against players where their MU vs protoss isn't the best, doesn't mean that their MU vs protoss is bad. There are no easy matches in Code S, there only great players, end of story.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
Oh please, I don't care who you have to play, saying things like "bla bla he only had to play p and t, his opponents weren't the best, his opponents weren't at top shape" are just bad excuses. Like I said, I don't care who you have to play against, Code S is the hardest competition there is, and there are no easy matches, regardless of what MU's there are or what players who have to play, Code S is super hard and you don't get to Ro8 in Code S, you simply cannot rely on something like that and get to Ro8, maybe wake a map, maaaybe even a whole series, but not Ro8.
But some just won't accept the fact that Naniwa is the best foreigner right now. Even if he would win the whole thing some idiots would still scream "STEPHANO, HUK", but the stats says it all, nani is in Ro8 in Code S and neither HuK or Stephano is.
You just don't watch code S to say that. Or you watch it with your eyes closed maybe I don't see how it could be otherwise. Anyone who watched enough code S game will tell you advancing in code S implicates a BIG amount of luck. Of course we're talking about luck for some players who are all some of the bests in the world but it doesn't mean they can't get lucky like everyone at some point. Saying that playing any MU or against any player in code S is difficult for everyone, is just retarded ... you sir must not watch the same competition we all do. The players all got their strengths and weaknesses, therefore they are lucky when all the MU they play are of their strongest MU. It's not more complicated than that .... a 5 year old would understand ...
You must be a big Naniwa fan-boy to be that much blind folded ...
Now about who is the best foreigner in the world right now .... everyone has their favourite players but to me the only reliable information is what pro gamers themselves say. Especially those from Korea, and recently the feedback that were heard are mainly that Stephano is the one Korean players "fear" the most ... Most of them agree on that. Naniwa is still a beast, Huk is still very good too, and Thorzain is technically the one of them with the highest ELO. You can make a fanboy interpretation of things or base yourself on reliable informations like feedbacks from pro gamers or ELO rankings (even though some would argue Thorzain's victory at DreamHack was nothing since they were so few Korean players attending...).
Personally I tend to believe those who know this game best, not a fanboy ...
Edit: love your little "end of story" ending ... like anyone's gonna stop posting on that subject because of that ...
his point was that, whetever... he still is in code S. if he got the luck to get players worse than him then that means he is better than those (Code S) players anyway and so he deserves his place.
If you think about it, that line of reasoning (he got lucky with his opponents) is so retarded, it's like saying "oh yeah?!, well, he's #1 ONLY because everyone else is worse than him!!". think about it.
On April 28 2012 00:33 latan wrote: his point was that, whetever... he still is in code S. if he got the luck to get players worse than him then that means he is better than those (Code S) players anyway and so he deserves his place.
If you think about it, that line of reasoning (he got lucky with his opponents) is so retarded, it's like saying "oh yeah?!, well, he's #1 ONLY because everyone else is worse than him!!". think about it.
Do you know what a MU is ? Do you know every SC2 player plays 3 of them? Now do you know that all SC2 players aren't equally good at the 3 of them?
Now read yourself again and think .... I don't want to spoil you ...
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Lol Jjakji had bracket luck ? Each round he was the underdog and each round he never ceased to impress. Jjakji has oustanding TvP and TvZ and he went through a very hard bracket, (Puzzle and Oz are PvT masters and Leenock is a ZvT master)
On April 28 2012 01:20 songohan wrote: so drawing MVP is bracket luck? lol
ROFL, Drawing MVP and not playing him definitely is ... but once again, never said Naniwa is not a a top foreign player, he just had a good amount of luck through his run in this GSL.
MC just sayd in a recent interview that he is very happy Stephano is finaly comming and it means GSL got now the 3 best zergs in the world. Thats MC words really nice praise
On April 28 2012 01:36 Benjamin99 wrote: MC just sayd in a recent interview that he is very happy Stephano is finaly comming and it means GSL got now the 3 best zergs in the world. Thats MC words really nice praise
On April 28 2012 01:36 Benjamin99 wrote: MC just sayd in a recent interview that he is very happy Stephano is finaly comming and it means GSL got now the 3 best zergs in the world. Thats MC words really nice praise
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
Oh please, I don't care who you have to play, saying things like "bla bla he only had to play p and t, his opponents weren't the best, his opponents weren't at top shape" are just bad excuses. Like I said, I don't care who you have to play against, Code S is the hardest competition there is, and there are no easy matches, regardless of what MU's there are or what players who have to play, Code S is super hard and you don't get to Ro8 in Code S, you simply cannot rely on something like that and get to Ro8, maybe wake a map, maaaybe even a whole series, but not Ro8.
But some just won't accept the fact that Naniwa is the best foreigner right now. Even if he would win the whole thing some idiots would still scream "STEPHANO, HUK", but the stats says it all, nani is in Ro8 in Code S and neither HuK or Stephano is.
You just don't watch code S to say that. Or you watch it with your eyes closed maybe I don't see how it could be otherwise. Anyone who watched enough code S game will tell you advancing in code S implicates a BIG amount of luck. Of course we're talking about luck for some players who are all some of the bests in the world but it doesn't mean they can't get lucky like everyone at some point. Saying that playing any MU or against any player in code S is difficult for everyone, is just retarded ... you sir must not watch the same competition we all do. The players all got their strengths and weaknesses, therefore they are lucky when all the MU they play are of their strongest MU. It's not more complicated than that .... a 5 year old would understand ...
You must be a big Naniwa fan-boy to be that much blind folded ...
Now about who is the best foreigner in the world right now .... everyone has their favourite players but to me the only reliable information is what pro gamers themselves say. Especially those from Korea, and recently the feedback that were heard are mainly that Stephano is the one Korean players "fear" the most ... Most of them agree on that. Naniwa is still a beast, Huk is still very good too, and Thorzain is technically the one of them with the highest ELO. You can make a fanboy interpretation of things or base yourself on reliable informations like feedbacks from pro gamers or ELO rankings (even though some would argue Thorzain's victory at DreamHack was nothing since they were so few Korean players attending...).
Personally I tend to believe those who know this game best, not a fanboy ...
Edit: love your little "end of story" ending ... like anyone's gonna stop posting on that subject because of that ...
I must admit, i am a huge fan of Naniwa. I admire him so much because of the fact that he is the only foreigner that says "fuck the power of expectation, i'm a foreigner but i'm still gonna advance in Code S". I also love his mentality, his goal in SC is not to make money, become famous, his goal is to win. So yeah, i like naniwa alot and maybe that does affect my judgement, but i'm not blind because of that.
Anyways, i'm not saying he didn't have any luck, all i'm saying is that i don't think luck is such a big deal as everyone seems to think it is and i don't think the luck he has had in Code S so far has determined weather or not he would've come this far. If Naniwas succes in Code S was based on luck, he wouldn't make it to the finals in MLG, he wouldn't defeat nestea several times, he wouldn't have defeatet nestea and right after that beating Leenock and even making it to Code S. No, the luck is not a determined factor, not in this case.
The reason why i get so irritated whenever people just won't accept nanis succes and come up with excuses as if he only got to Ro8 because of luck, which is not true. And yes, every match you play in Code S is difficult, it's Code S ffs. Regardless of who you play, regardless of what MU, even if it's your best MU, it is hard. And like you said, if you only get to play your two best MU's (like naniwa has) you've obviously had some luck, but it's not like the matches your going to play are easy, the other players are also great players, that is why i think saying his succes is based on luck is stupid.
I also think it's stupid to compare Naniwa and Stephano. The thing that thrives naniwa is to be the best, or at least do very well and win something huge and to achieve that, he practices alot. Stephano is (although im sure he likes playing Sc2) in it for the money, and i think that their goals really reflects in their succes. Although Stephano has won way more money, Naniwa is the one in Code S, he has won MLG, he's been in the finals once. Stephano is just a dude that is really, really, really good att Sc2, without dedicating very much to it. I'm sure if he did put as much time and energy in Sc2 as Naniwa did, he'd me at least as succesfull as naniwa.
gsl is the 100 x tougher than any foreign tournament as monster has said. naniwa has proven himself by advancing in it. yeah you might get lucky in what opponents you draw, but everyone in code S is a top level competitor.
On April 28 2012 01:36 Benjamin99 wrote: MC just sayd in a recent interview that he is very happy Stephano is finaly comming and it means GSL got now the 3 best zergs in the world. Thats MC words really nice praise
How was having to play genius luck? Yeah he only get second place in the last season of the GSL, and Naniwa 2-0'd him easily in two completely different games. The Naniwa bashing is rediculous, he's obviously the top foreigner right now.
On April 26 2012 07:22 niteReloaded wrote: Once GSL stops the seeds bullshit, they'll become more respected as a league.
MBC and OGN never did that shit, nor did they try so hard to please people. Just make the hardest motherfucking league on the planet and everybody will love you.
I like seeing Naniwa, and next season Stephano too, but deep inside, I don't respect Gom too much...
They were loved by everybody - to the effect that competitive BW died completely outside of Korea within a few years of the game's release.
OSL - is switching to SC 2 because they see where the wind is blowing.
MSL - failed out of eSports and became a Kpop channel.
????????
Are you really gonna fault the companies that built starcraft into what it is today for a not also building a foreign scene?
What a jerk!
More related, I think just giving someone a Code S spot is a little too much. Putting him at or near the bottom of Code A and letting him prove himself would make it significantly more appealing and still give another foreigner some air time. Skipping everything and going straight to the top in such a harshly competitive environment feels a little off. He can obviously compete with those caliber of players, but so can plenty of other amazing players that just haven't made it through all the qualifiers.
Jinro's run all the way to semi's wouldn't have been anywhere near as cool if he was invited most of the way there.
I don't believe that the companies behind KESPA built Starcraft 2 into what it is today. They did nothing to promote the international scene, which is what SC 2 is, and because of their fight with Blizzard, they ended up doing nothing to promote SC 2 in Korea.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Starcraft in general man, and your totaly out of line. The ratings were doing just fine mind you and there are more sponorships to gain by airing SC2 for them hence they want to bring it in.
Channels change direction all the time. That is the case with MBC.
Why does GSL take like 2 months when other can do tounaments in 3 days? Sucks GSL takes so long or I belive many more foriegners would be in there and Stephanp would have been there long ago.
On April 28 2012 23:18 tdt wrote: Why does GSL take like 2 months when other can do tounaments in 3 days? Sucks GSL takes so long or I belive many more foriegners would be in there and Stephanp would have been there long ago.
Better GSL is better and more important than all those other lesser tournaments. They also understand that a good tournament is about letting players prepare for their games not make them play 25 standard ladder style games in a row.
There's a very good reason to 80% of the best games in Sc2 history were played in either the GSL or TSL and that's because players get a chance to prepare build and strategies so we see new and interesting stuff.
Tournaments like Dreamhack, IPL and MLG might have great drama but the games are usually of much lower quality than we see in GSL and you will never see something like a Leenock vs Jjakji level series at an weekend lan.
Cheers for the young zerg frenchman; happy for him. Sorry for not quoting the post above, but do you really think naniwa is on sc2 only to win ? i'm pretty much sure he likes money like everyone does; Stephano is a bit of a trollman and even if he allways says he plays only for the money, that's not the only reason and maybe not the main reason (pure allegation here). The feeling of winning in front of thousands of people must be really great; i think he earned now enough money to start his studies (medical school in france is public, so really cheap) ; the fact he's staying one more year could mean he likes the game very much and wants to get fame and great trophies ! Besides that, why all korean progamer hate Naniwa ? Is it because of the probe story allin in gsl or is it about his general behaviour ? i'm not a huge fan because he didn't show much respect in Korea towards the progamers by doing that probe rush, but maybe it's time to get over it ?
On April 28 2012 23:18 tdt wrote: Why does GSL take like 2 months when other can do tounaments in 3 days? Sucks GSL takes so long or I belive many more foriegners would be in there and Stephanp would have been there long ago.
Better GSL is better and more important than all those other lesser tournaments. They also understand that a good tournament is about letting players prepare for their games not make them play 25 standard ladder style games in a row.
I am not actually sure that is the reasoning behind GSL's format. I think it is more to do with allowing GOM to have more content to broadcast. If a GSL can be wrapped up in a single weekend/4 days then what are GOM going to broadcast the rest of the month? By spreading out the games over a longer time period, it means that GOM can spend days broadcasting the tournament. The fact that players can prepare for a known opponent is just a by-product of the schedule and not the reason for the schedule.
I think it quite possible that more players would prefer a shorter duration tournament because otherwise there is a lot of downtime between GSL's with little chance of winning money in Korea (at least at the time of the GSL's formation). The format of GSL means that half the players are knocked out in the first round and then what are they going to do? They have no earning opportunities until a month or so later. I know there are now more Korean tournaments to potentially earn money in but this was not the case when GSL was set up in it's current format.
It would be interesting to get the thoughts from Korean pro-gamers as to whether they would prefer a domestic scene with more frequent tournaments of shorter duration like in the Foreign Scene.
On April 28 2012 23:44 Dawg_Snow wrote: What is with all this hating, let s be happy for him and wish him Good luck !
I don't know, between the drama here and in the MVPMonster interview thread I'm beginning to think there's been a recent rise in spite for some reason. =(
Meh, maybe he would improve from playing in Korea, but i prefer Euro/US tours without or with only a few koreans so dont care at all for him going to korea -_-
On April 28 2012 23:44 Dawg_Snow wrote: What is with all this hating, let s be happy for him and wish him Good luck !
I don't know, between the drama here and in the MVPMonster interview thread I'm beginning to think there's been a recent rise in spite for some reason. =(
Of course good luck to Stephano.
Personal I belive is the former BW fans they so used to koreans dominating in BW that they simply hate all other none koreans.
On April 28 2012 23:18 tdt wrote: Why does GSL take like 2 months when other can do tounaments in 3 days? Sucks GSL takes so long or I belive many more foriegners would be in there and Stephanp would have been there long ago.
the fact it takes so long is what makes me put more weight on a GSL win over an MLG win.
it's one thing to win a tournament where your opponents know OF you.
but it's another to win a tournament where your opponents know you.
On April 28 2012 23:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Better GSL is better and more important than all those other lesser tournaments. They also understand that a good tournament is about letting players prepare for their games not make them play 25 standard ladder style games in a row.
Exactly this is why I dont like. Preparing something is good/excellent for underdogs and better players are more afraid against underdogs. This is why I like 3days tournaments much more.
People trying to downplay Naniwa's ro8 results don't seem to understand how big of an accomplishment it is. Naniwa is holding his own among some of the best koreans (and thus players) in the world. He's not the best in the tournament obviously, and i would take anyone remaining in ro8 as favorites over him, but he is damn good and there are less than 5 foreign players who could attempt it.
On April 28 2012 23:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Better GSL is better and more important than all those other lesser tournaments. They also understand that a good tournament is about letting players prepare for their games not make them play 25 standard ladder style games in a row.
Exactly this is why I dont like. Preparing something is good/excellent for underdogs and better players are more afraid against underdogs. This is why I like 3days tournaments much more.
This is all part of what makes good players good though. Somebody like idra struggles under this format specifically because his lesser skilled opponents can study his builds and come up with a perfect counter. Someone like MKP (lately) isn't going to have the same problems because he is constantly mixing up his play.
You only really need to be good at being greedy and scraping by the early game to dominate an MLG. But in GSL, it you're predictable, you'll rarely make it past the RO16 and definitely never win it.
i can't see stephano making setting the world on fire in one GSL.. i think he'll need to put more into training for and getting experience in the GSL. but i look forward to watching him for sure.
On April 30 2012 00:20 zefreak wrote: People trying to downplay Naniwa's ro8 results don't seem to understand how big of an accomplishment it is. Naniwa is holding his own among some of the best koreans (and thus players) in the world. He's not the best in the tournament obviously, and i would take anyone remaining in ro8 as favorites over him, but he is damn good and there are less than 5 foreign players who could attempt it.
I reckon he has a decent chance against MVP. MVP is obviously not in top form due to his wrist issue and NaNiwa has been playing incredibly well lately.
On April 30 2012 13:00 EsMuyVien wrote: Hell fucking yea! Now only for IdrA, HuK, and SaSe to get back into form and join those two!
Idra was never on a code S form. And I don't want a rage quiter in code S. Naniwa is a fighter. Stephano wants cash. Idra doesn't want anything so he has nothing to hang on to.
I feel only thorzain should be considered right now for a foreign invite. To also cover all 3 races.
On April 30 2012 13:00 EsMuyVien wrote: Hell fucking yea! Now only for IdrA, HuK, and SaSe to get back into form and join those two!
Idra was never on a code S form. And I don't want a rage quiter in code S. Naniwa is a fighter. Stephano wants cash. Idra doesn't want anything so he has nothing to hang on to.
I feel only thorzain should be considered right now for a foreign invite. To also cover all 3 races.
Except he's one of the only two foreigners who have ever qualified for Code S :s
Hate the current Idra all you want, but the first 6 months of SC2 he was still the best non-korean by a big margin.
On April 30 2012 13:00 EsMuyVien wrote: Hell fucking yea! Now only for IdrA, HuK, and SaSe to get back into form and join those two!
Idra was never on a code S form. And I don't want a rage quiter in code S. Naniwa is a fighter. Stephano wants cash. Idra doesn't want anything so he has nothing to hang on to.
I feel only thorzain should be considered right now for a foreign invite. To also cover all 3 races.
Except he's one of the only two foreigners who have ever qualified for Code S :s
Hate the current Idra all you want, but the first 6 months of SC2 he was still the best non-korean by a big margin.
I'm guesing that living in Korea gave him an upper hand in the start (+ the BW experience), after he left it's been pretty much going down hill.
On April 30 2012 16:53 sharky246 wrote: so did naniwa earn his way to code s or did he get an invite like stephano did?
Invite, but he's the fist forigner to go into the next rounds
Incorrect. Idra and Jinro have both made it this far previously. In fact Jinro beat Idra in that tournament to then move on to the ro4. This was GSL Open Season 1 if I recall correctly.
On April 30 2012 16:53 sharky246 wrote: so did naniwa earn his way to code s or did he get an invite like stephano did?
Invite, but he's the fist forigner to go into the next rounds
Incorrect. Idra and Jinro have both made it this far previously. In fact Jinro beat Idra in that tournament to then move on to the ro4. This was GSL Open Season 1 if I recall correctly.
nope that was in Code S january when Mvp demolished MKP in finals
On April 30 2012 16:53 sharky246 wrote: so did naniwa earn his way to code s or did he get an invite like stephano did?
Invite, but he's the fist forigner to go into the next rounds
More notable is that he's already earned a spot in next season's GSL, so it isn't an in-and-out like all the other invites we've seen. So I'd say he retroactively earned his spot.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Virus has TvP as best matchup.
Great for him it is still about 45% because Virus has an overall winrate of 40%.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Virus has TvP as best matchup.
Great for him it is still about 45% because Virus has an overall winrate of 40%.
NaNiwa was picked by Genius on MC's advice. MC said to pick NaNiwa because he was a strong opponent. NaNi 2-0'd Genius. NaNiwa is a much better player than the foreigner-bashers are willing to admit.
On April 27 2012 05:57 .Carnage wrote: The great foreign hope!! STEPHANO FIGHTING!
Sorry, but Naniwa is the one in the Ro8 in code s (prolly semifinal) so no, naniwa is the foreign hope.
NaNi got lucky only have to play T and P.
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL.
Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be.
It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more.
People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it.
Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck.
Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun.
Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss).
When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well.
Virus has TvP as best matchup.
Great for him it is still about 45% because Virus has an overall winrate of 40%.
NaNiwa was picked by Genius on MC's advice. MC said to pick NaNiwa because he was a strong opponent. NaNi 2-0'd Genius. NaNiwa is a much better player than the foreigner-bashers are willing to admit.
And he's nowhere near as good as his fanboys think.
On April 30 2012 13:00 EsMuyVien wrote: Hell fucking yea! Now only for IdrA, HuK, and SaSe to get back into form and join those two!
Idra was never on a code S form. And I don't want a rage quiter in code S. Naniwa is a fighter. Stephano wants cash. Idra doesn't want anything so he has nothing to hang on to.
I feel only thorzain should be considered right now for a foreign invite. To also cover all 3 races.
It's funny that you would call out Idra from that list when he's won more major LAN's than both Naniwa and Thorzain and that you don't even mention Sase, a guy who has zero results to speak of on LAN and who got booted out of the GSL by Fruitdealer in his worse matchup (I struggle to think of anything more tragic than that). But no, of that list you pick on Idra, a guy who unlike every other foreigner bar Jinro 100% legitimately earnt his spot on the biggest stage in the business (excluding Open seasons).
Idra might be pretty crappy right now but he's still more deserving of an invite than Sase because at least he's won something in the last six months (or ever). Idra was on Code S form when he actually you know, qualified for Code S with zero affirmative action spots.
On April 28 2012 23:27 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Better GSL is better and more important than all those other lesser tournaments. They also understand that a good tournament is about letting players prepare for their games not make them play 25 standard ladder style games in a row.
Exactly this is why I dont like. Preparing something is good/excellent for underdogs and better players are more afraid against underdogs. This is why I like 3days tournaments much more.
Better players are smarter players, a better and smarter player is much more likely to win when he has chance to prepare for his opponent than when he doesn't know he playing someone who's super greedy (Ret/Idra), or super cheesy (Inori) and getting caught out. 3 day tournaments promote people winning because they hit a hot streak (Leenock) rather than playing well for an entire month. There's way more skill in winning an extended tournament and not only that it invariably produces better games.
On April 30 2012 17:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: it invariably produces better games.
flash vs jd sucked dick because half the time it was mindgames and bo wins.
i'm pretty sure 4pool vs forward 8rax isn't a "better game."
I don't know why you're talking about a completely different game but in this game almost all the best games ever played come from either GSL or TSL where as MLG/Dreamhack/IPL's are full of terrible game after terrible game of players doing the exact same builds because players don't want to take a risk when they haven't had chance to prepare something clever that they think will work on a specific map vs a specific player, so we very, very rarely see anything new outside of GSL.
On April 30 2012 17:54 EZBreeZ wrote: Well, to be fair, NaNi has the best chance at winning this GSL than any other foreigner did in previous GSLs.
No he doesn't Jinro was in the Round of 4 twice and at the time Jinro was legitimately one of the top five players in the world (behind Nestea, MVP, MKP and MC). Naniwa most definitely is not in the top five in the world, he's not even in the top 10.
On April 30 2012 17:54 EZBreeZ wrote: Well, to be fair, NaNi has the best chance at winning this GSL than any other foreigner did in previous GSLs.
No he doesn't Jinro was in the Round of 4 twice and at the time Jinro was legitimately one of the top five players in the world (behind Nestea, MVP, MKP and MC). Naniwa most definitely is not in the top five in the world, he's not even in the top 10.
On April 30 2012 17:54 EZBreeZ wrote: Well, to be fair, NaNi has the best chance at winning this GSL than any other foreigner did in previous GSLs.
No he doesn't Jinro was in the Round of 4 twice and at the time Jinro was legitimately one of the top five players in the world (behind Nestea, MVP, MKP and MC). Naniwa most definitely is not in the top five in the world, he's not even in the top 10.
Regardless of your top5 at any given time, there wasn't really any doubt that Jinro was gonna lose to MC the first ime he was in a Ro4. He even said in the interview before the match that he was gonna lose! The second Ro4 was pretty much the same. No one at all believed he was gonna beat MKP, just as no one thought either would have a chance against Mvp in the finals.
Whatever the curcumstances (opponents with bad vP, mirror match ups, etc.) a lot more people think Naniwa has a chance now. I'd even say he has a legitimately chance of beating any of the remaining players even though he probably won't be favoured against any of them.
On April 30 2012 17:54 EZBreeZ wrote: Well, to be fair, NaNi has the best chance at winning this GSL than any other foreigner did in previous GSLs.
No he doesn't Jinro was in the Round of 4 twice and at the time Jinro was legitimately one of the top five players in the world (behind Nestea, MVP, MKP and MC). Naniwa most definitely is not in the top five in the world, he's not even in the top 10.
Regardless of your top5 at any given time, there wasn't really any doubt that Jinro was gonna lose to MC the first ime he was in a Ro4. He even said in the interview before the match that he was gonna lose! The second Ro4 was pretty much the same. No one at all believed he was gonna beat MKP, just as no one thought either would have a chance against Mvp in the finals.
Whatever the curcumstances (opponents with bad vP, mirror match ups, etc.) a lot more people think Naniwa has a chance now. I'd even say he has a legitimately chance of beating any of the remaining players even though he probably won't be favoured against any of them.
MKP sure as hell was not certain he would win when he faced Jinro. MKP gave Jinro the same treatment he gave MVP. He publically said he did not want to get into a standard game with Jinro. I dont doubt that MKP is and was the better player (he did win). But it was NOT the way you describe it.
Hopefully this will add enough foreigner interest to have a European or American- timed rebroadcast? The only thing keeping me from paying for GSL is not being able to watch the matches live.
I'd totes watch semi-live on a foreigner rebroadcast though.
Speaking of which... perhaps it's time for IPL to partner further with GSL to sponsor the rebroadcast? Anyone see awesome synergy here? I do.
On April 30 2012 22:00 Crownlol wrote: Whoaaaaa, finally accepting?
Hopefully this will add enough foreigner interest to have a European or American- timed rebroadcast? The only thing keeping me from paying for GSL is not being able to watch the matches live.
I'd totes watch semi-live on a foreigner rebroadcast though.
Speaking of which... perhaps it's time for IPL to partner further with GSL to sponsor the rebroadcast? Anyone see awesome synergy here? I do.
Come to East Coast Australia. We get the GSL live at 7pm. :D
On April 30 2012 22:00 Crownlol wrote: Whoaaaaa, finally accepting?
Hopefully this will add enough foreigner interest to have a European or American- timed rebroadcast? The only thing keeping me from paying for GSL is not being able to watch the matches live.
I'd totes watch semi-live on a foreigner rebroadcast though.
Speaking of which... perhaps it's time for IPL to partner further with GSL to sponsor the rebroadcast? Anyone see awesome synergy here? I do.
The foreigner interest in GSL always was and is much larger than the korean interest.... i dont see them putting up rebroadcast anytime soon. I would think VODs are big seller on the GSL tickets and lets be honest here, catching the GSL live at weird times is part of the magic.
On April 30 2012 13:00 EsMuyVien wrote: Hell fucking yea! Now only for IdrA, HuK, and SaSe to get back into form and join those two!
Idra doesn't want anything so he has nothing to hang on to.
Like you would know.
I can observe the world around me.
heh so because you can "observe the world around you" you can actually read minds. thats pretty fascinating. i like you
Idra really acts like what he described. He seems like he doesn't respect the game and he doesn't want competitive part of it. His results would agree too.
On May 01 2012 13:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: heh so because you can "observe the world around you" you can actually read minds. thats pretty fascinating. i like you
Why play the Smartass? What he says is pretty understandable, Idra doesn't show any hunger for winning any more. Sry if it hurts your little fanboy's heart but it's true ...
On May 01 2012 13:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: heh so because you can "observe the world around you" you can actually read minds. thats pretty fascinating. i like you
Why play the Smartass? What he says is pretty understandable, Idra doesn't show any hunger for winning any more. Sry if it hurts your little fanboy's heart but it's true ...
It is still stupid to make assumptions. How people act and feel are very different. You should bear that in mind when you try to judge a person. (And resorting to mild insults at the end of your point does not make you clever, and it certainly doesn't help your argument.)
On April 30 2012 17:54 EZBreeZ wrote: Well, to be fair, NaNi has the best chance at winning this GSL than any other foreigner did in previous GSLs.
No he doesn't Jinro was in the Round of 4 twice and at the time Jinro was legitimately one of the top five players in the world (behind Nestea, MVP, MKP and MC). Naniwa most definitely is not in the top five in the world, he's not even in the top 10.
well imho GSL format fits Naniwas preparation style
On May 01 2012 13:13 FallDownMarigold wrote: heh so because you can "observe the world around you" you can actually read minds. thats pretty fascinating. i like you
Why play the Smartass? What he says is pretty understandable, Idra doesn't show any hunger for winning any more. Sry if it hurts your little fanboy's heart but it's true ...
It is still stupid to make assumptions. How people act and feel are very different. You should bear that in mind when you try to judge a person. (And resorting to mild insults at the end of your point does not make you clever, and it certainly doesn't help your argument.)
It's no assumption, he's already made clear that he hates the game and has no passion for it. And when I say this I don't mean the way he acts but actually his own words. And besides that his attitudes towards the community is just awful.
This is great for eSports! In my opinion, Stephano is easily the best foreigner right now. Nani is definitely up there too though I haven't seen his play recently.
All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
WeaponX.7 seems to think that victories are transitive.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
He lacks consistency and that's what separate good players from great players.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
He lacks consistency and that's what separate good players from great players.
Then by that measure, there are no great players in SC2, only good players.
NesTea, MC, MVP, MKP, among numerous others (every progamer?) have all had rough patches where they didn't perform well for several tournaments or a few months.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
He lacks consistency and that's what separate good players from great players.
Then by that measure, there are no great players in SC2, only good players.
NesTea, MC, MVP, MKP, among numerous others (every progamer?) have all had rough patches where they didn't perform well for several tournaments or a few months.
The point that I am trying to make is not that, "stephano is bad", the point im trying to make is that he isnt the "next zerg bonjwa" like was being said a few months ago. And this stupidity of trying to call him the best foreigner when there isnt any hard evidence to support that. There are several other foreigners who deserve to be put ahead of him. He hasnt won a really big tournament and beyond that he really hasn't beaten any top tier koreans, (correct me if im wrong) I believe polt is the best korean he has played. Its just these fanboys that go on and on about stephano, this thread comes up and people think he's going to win code s.... come on. He probably wont get out of the first round.
On May 02 2012 14:02 WeaponX.7 wrote: The point that I am trying to make is not that, "stephano is bad", the point im trying to make is that he isnt the "next zerg bonjwa" like was being said a few months ago. And this stupidity of trying to call him the best foreigner when there isnt any hard evidence to support that. There are several other foreigners who deserve to be put ahead of him. He hasnt won a really big tournament and beyond that he really hasn't beaten any top tier koreans, (correct me if im wrong) I believe polt is the best korean he has played. Its just these fanboys that go on and on about stephano, this thread comes up and people think he's going to win code s.... come on. He probably wont get out of the first round.
At IPL, he beat bomber, curious, and jyp and took a game off nestea and mkp. He only lost to MMA, MKP, and Nestea, who are all top 10 koreans. He also recently 2-0'd zenio and 3-0'd puma.
Dude did stephano bully you when you were little or something like that? Some people think he is the best foreigner at the moment, because he shows good results and plays superb. A lot of people think so, you don't need to be a fanboy to think that. ...Actually, I think you just want attention. Guess it's working out huh
On May 02 2012 14:02 WeaponX.7 wrote: The point that I am trying to make is not that, "stephano is bad", the point im trying to make is that he isnt the "next zerg bonjwa" like was being said a few months ago. And this stupidity of trying to call him the best foreigner when there isnt any hard evidence to support that. There are several other foreigners who deserve to be put ahead of him. He hasnt won a really big tournament and beyond that he really hasn't beaten any top tier koreans, (correct me if im wrong) I believe polt is the best korean he has played. Its just these fanboys that go on and on about stephano, this thread comes up and people think he's going to win code s.... come on. He probably wont get out of the first round.
At IPL, he beat bomber, curious, and jyp and took a game off nestea and mkp. He only lost to MMA, MKP, and Nestea, who are all top 10 koreans. He also recently 2-0'd zenio and 3-0'd puma.
Losing 3 - 5 to MC is even more impressive imo, taking 3 games off one of the 3 best PvZs is no small feat.
On May 02 2012 14:02 WeaponX.7 wrote: The point that I am trying to make is not that, "stephano is bad", the point im trying to make is that he isnt the "next zerg bonjwa" like was being said a few months ago. And this stupidity of trying to call him the best foreigner when there isnt any hard evidence to support that. There are several other foreigners who deserve to be put ahead of him. He hasnt won a really big tournament and beyond that he really hasn't beaten any top tier koreans, (correct me if im wrong) I believe polt is the best korean he has played. Its just these fanboys that go on and on about stephano, this thread comes up and people think he's going to win code s.... come on. He probably wont get out of the first round.
At IPL, he beat bomber, curious, and jyp and took a game off nestea and mkp. He only lost to MMA, MKP, and Nestea, who are all top 10 koreans. He also recently 2-0'd zenio and 3-0'd puma.
Losing 3 - 5 to MC is even more impressive imo, taking 3 games off one of the 3 best PvZs is no small feat.
Seeing as Stephano is top 2 ZvP together with DRG I'd say it had to be expected to see him take a few games off MC, otherwise this game would've been bad.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
He lacks consistency and that's what separate good players from great players.
Then even jaedong, bisu , fantasy are all not great players then since they have all had times when they performed badly.
Except they are absolutely great players and your wrong.
On May 02 2012 12:13 WeaponX.7 wrote: All this "Stephano best foreigner stuff" makes me laugh. I'd like to point out that at MLG winter championship he lost in the open bracket to polt. Next round sheth took out polt 2-0. In the loser bracket Stephano lost to Inori who then lost to Idra in the next round. Its a stretch to call him the best foreign zerg, so please cut it out with this nonsense. Stephano hasnt won an MLG or a Dreamhack, easily to two biggest foreign tournaments.
Didn't he just beat Polt before that 3-1 to win the LoneStar Clash? He also 2-0'd Inori at the NASL S3 qualifier in February. I mean, at the level that Polt and Stephano play at, anyone can have a good day / bad day and over or under perform.
He lacks consistency and that's what separate good players from great players.
Then by that measure, there are no great players in SC2, only good players.
NesTea, MC, MVP, MKP, among numerous others (every progamer?) have all had rough patches where they didn't perform well for several tournaments or a few months.
On May 31 2012 02:53 Psychonian wrote: 2 foreigners in Code S... God, I never thought I'd see the day.
Two seasons ago there were 3 foreigners is Code S, it's just two of them dropped to Code B immediately and the other won a series to remain in Code A but then forfeited the Code A spot to go back to Taiwan. I can understand how you could forget with how ridiculously quick it was.
On May 31 2012 02:53 Psychonian wrote: 2 foreigners in Code S... God, I never thought I'd see the day.
Two seasons ago there were 3 foreigners is Code S, it's just two of them dropped to Code B immediately and the other won a series to remain in Code A but then forfeited the Code A spot to go back to Taiwan. I can understand how you could forget with how ridiculously quick it was.
Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
He should just qualify like everyone else. It's bullshit that he just gets a free ride to code S. Granted out of most of the foreigners he is one of the most deserving but I don't think that anyone should just get a free invite.
On May 31 2012 03:15 KazmA wrote: He should just qualify like everyone else. It's bullshit that he just gets a free ride to code S. Granted out of most of the foreigners he is one of the most deserving but I don't think that anyone should just get a free invite.
For most foreigners who are dedicated to staying in Korea, I would agree with you, but think about it this way: if he did not recieve the invite, he would definitely not choose to stay in Korea to practice and work his way through Qualifiers and Code A over winning thousands of dollars in foreign tournaments against inferior competition.
As it stands, either he gets invited to Code S or we never see him prove himself in the toughest arena of talent Starcraft 2 has ever seen.
Hes been in the GSL Blizzard Cup and I remember Mvp taking a game off of him in a pretty quick games, he was quickly knocked out of the tournament. I'm not particularly a fan of Stephano but it would be quite interesting to see how his competes w the tip top code s Korean players on Korean soil.
On May 31 2012 03:15 KazmA wrote: He should just qualify like everyone else. It's bullshit that he just gets a free ride to code S. Granted out of most of the foreigners he is one of the most deserving but I don't think that anyone should just get a free invite.
The problem for foreigners is that flying out to Korea specifically to qualify isn't feasible. A lot of foreign tournaments have online qualifiers and such, and thus they are able to qualify and then attend if they choose (and you'll note that Koreans also participate in them since they are online). But dumping a lot of money to show up to try and qualify really isn't feasible. If you live in Korea, sure you go and try, but if not, it isn't worth it.
So then we have some really good foreign players who could qualify, but choose not to because of the cost, and the GSL invites them. And that is okay with me and it certainly makes sense, since without those great foreign players, the GSL may not be representing the best players in the world. Maybe the solution is for the GSL should do an online qualifier too.
On May 31 2012 03:21 Sankanyo wrote: Hes been in the GSL before and Mvp took two games off of him in both were pretty quick games, he was quickly knocked out of the tournament. I'm not particularly a fan of Stephano but it would be quite interesting to see how his competes w the tip top code s Korean players on Korean soil.
Oh, god please get your facts straight....Stephano never particpated in GSL, it was Blizzard cup when he was in a group of 5 players including MVP, MC, DRG and Hero.He beat DRG and Hero but lost to MC(in a very close game) and MVP in BO1.Compare this to Naniwa's or Hero's 0-4, he did quite well and IIRC, MC was also 2-2.
On May 31 2012 03:19 Whatson wrote: lol I still remember Stephano vs MVP in the Blizzard Cup...
I didn't get to see the Blizz Cup, can someone tell me what happened?
Stephano went for the same fast upgraded lings into infestor style off 2 base that he uses in about half of his ZvTs. MVP recognized it, and went 1rax FE into 4rax tech-lab, while hiding double factories, making 3 hellions at a time while researching blue-flame. MVP hit around the 9:30 mark with blue-flame hellions, CS marines, and stim, a minute before Stephano's infestors popped. Needless to say, Stephano lost most of his drones, all his zerglings, and most of his newly made infestors when they popped out. MVP in the meantime had taken his third and was building his 4th while teching straight to a ghost marine tank medivac army. MVP sieged up Stephano's natural, dropped nukes and manner mules, and Stephano GGed. Polt played a similar game against him at IPL4, using a marauder hellion timing before infestors popped out.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
He's only really good at ZvP just fyi his ZvT is far below that of some of the Korean Zergs out there. Doesn't help that he seems to play so predictably.
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
I love the guy... But oh, the arrogance.
Great news FOR US! Like we should be so grateful that he decided to grace us with his presence for another year.
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
I love the guy... But oh, the arrogance.
Great news FOR US! Like we should be so grateful that he decided to grace us with his presence for another year.
Well if you're following him on twitter doesn't that mean you're a fan of his? What fucking sense does that make to get salty at that?
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
I love the guy... But oh, the arrogance.
Great news FOR US! Like we should be so grateful that he decided to grace us with his presence for another year.
Well if you're following him on twitter doesn't that mean you're a fan of his? What fucking sense does that make to get salty at that?
Also people have been asking him to keep playing. I don't think he means you VoirDire
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
He's only really good at ZvP just fyi his ZvT is far below that of some of the Korean Zergs out there. Doesn't help that he seems to play so predictably.
On May 31 2012 04:21 bonifaceviii wrote: Reserving judgement until I see some results.
Same, yeah. I don't know how strong Stephano is at planning out a bo3 given actual time but his improvisation is really strong. I'm not gonna doubt that he's a stellar player but I definitely expect some results.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
truth is, you have no idea what you are talking about. so why do you even talk?
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
Oh for fuck's sake. I did not say he WILL go down in flames, I said he COULD go down in flames, ie success in Code S in Korea is not guaranteed. How the hell is that even controversial to you?
Why the fuck is Stephano the new Idra, with all these low-post count nobodies turning up and starting the most retarded arguments when there is literally no reason for there to be any arguments? Both the fanboys and the anti-fans are so absurdly defensive about everything nowadays.
Stephano has DECLINED THE INVITATION. I know there's tons of people who are blindly jumping to the last page to ignore everything that has been said, so here it is again:
STEPHANO HAS DECLINED IT. HE IS NOT GOING TO CODE S.
MillStephano @MillStephano Great news for you guys, I've been thinking since a week about it and I decided to take another sc2 year and a trip to korea in 1.5 month!!! 10:44 PM - 19 Apr 12 via web
I love the guy... But oh, the arrogance.
Great news FOR US! Like we should be so grateful that he decided to grace us with his presence for another year.
Well if you're following him on twitter doesn't that mean you're a fan of his? What fucking sense does that make to get salty at that?
You can still be a fan and not like everything about someone unconditionally. Not that I consider myself a Stephano fan or follow him on twitter.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
He's only really good at ZvP just fyi his ZvT is far below that of some of the Korean Zergs out there. Doesn't help that he seems to play so predictably.
Care to name those zerg who have far better ZvT than him? Because i don t see any. I think drg, symbol and leenock are better at the matchup but after that... And as far as his supposed predictability goes, he plays against great players all the time and except for mvp and polt, no one came up with a tailored counter to his builds.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
He's only really good at ZvP just fyi his ZvT is far below that of some of the Korean Zergs out there. Doesn't help that he seems to play so predictably.
Care to name those zerg who have far better ZvT than him? Because i don t see any. I think drg, symbol and leenock are better at the matchup but after that... And as far as his supposed predictability goes, he plays against great players all the time and except for mvp and polt, no one came up with a tailored counter to his builds.
You answered your own question. I'll also throw in Curious, Nestea, and CoCa. And Stephano used the same build in those two games, fyi.
On May 31 2012 03:13 SeaSwift wrote: Probably the best foreigner, one of the best ZvP in the world.
If he gets put against some of the more mediocre vZers (Parting, Creator, Seed, Ryung etc) he has a good chance to make it far. If he gets put against another Zerg or a strong vZer (most Terrans, MC, Ace) he could go down in flames.
Good luck, anyway.
Go down in Flames ? In practice games stephano is like 8-1 vs JYP ( one of the best pvz's in korea ) He beat MC at MLG 2-0 At Redbull Battlegrounds he went 2-3 in very close games to MC ( who went on to win the entire thing ). At Redbull Battlegrounds he 3-1 (4-1 if he won dc game which 95% chance he would) squirtle who also has one of the scariest pvz's in korea.
...Saying he will go down in flames if he faces good vZer's is so silly, he has already prooven himself vs some of the best vsZers.
He's only really good at ZvP just fyi his ZvT is far below that of some of the Korean Zergs out there. Doesn't help that he seems to play so predictably.
His ZvT is very good lol.
As good as DRG, Symbol, or Leenock's? How about Curious, CoCa, or Nestea? I think not (I'll hold off on the Life hype train, despite the ridiculous hype thats going on in some threads)
EPT
Hope he accepts.
