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I laddered for about 5 hours yesterday (trying to get into GM maybe next season) and I played 7 low diamond players in a row, as a high masters player. It was not fun for me or for them.
It seems to me that this "looser" matchmaking criteria has affected me much more in the second iteration than the first. Before I was kind of jumping around playing different caliber masters players, but the matches seemed a lot closer.
I suppose it's because I haven't played a lot of games this season so there could be an argument about the system not being completely sure about my MMR so it's placing me with even higher variety than it normally would.... But it just feels wrong atm.
It's not like I'm going to quit ladder, so whatever.... Having a high winrate is fun!!! 
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Hopefully its better than last time. I'm all for facing higher levels as long as I get to pwn some lower ones and feel good about myself LOL
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That's sad for me that they reverted the changes.
I would like that the matchmaking always find me same players than me (I am gold, i want to play against gold only.)
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this system annoys me mainly because of being matched with bad players. sure its a easy win, but most of the time u are trying to figure out wtf they are doing. u see a toss player 1 base for 7+ mins and in ur head u are thinking he is going DTs or some other 1 base all in shit, but instead he does jack shit on 1 base and then he just expands at 8 mins..... so it turned out he was just terribad. honestly a huge waste of time.
or u get 6 pooled/1 base SCV all inned. quite annoying to deal with easy win or not. why waste my time on people like this? its utter retardation. the points u get for the win is so insignificant anyway because he was so damn bad... and in the off chance that u lose to such stupidness then its not like u can learn anything from reviewing the replay -_-
On April 25 2012 21:05 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 20:59 Plexa wrote:To be fair, protech is now a top8 masters player so.. which is like 10time more skilled than any high diamond...
the skill ceiling between high diamond and high masters actually isnt that huge, it just depends largely on the skill of the individual player, not the league. high diamond and masters are close enough tbh. infact if im not mistaken, the main difference between diamond players and master players is the amount of game hours? like u have to play for a certain amount of time to get into masters where as diamond has no such limit. i could be wrong on that, but im pretty sure that is the case.
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Balllistixz, it is obvious you do not know what you are talking about,
The difference is skill even between say a 1000pt master and a 100pt master is much larger than the difference between bronze and diamond.
The bronze player is actually closer in skill level to the high diamond player, than the high diamond player is to a high master. lol
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On April 26 2012 03:53 Ballistixz wrote:
the skill ceiling between high diamond and high masters actually isnt that huge, it just depends largely on the skill of the individual player, not the league. high diamond and masters are close enough tbh. infact if im not mistaken, the main difference between diamond players and master players is the amount of game hours? like u have to play for a certain amount of time to get into masters where as diamond has no such limit. i could be wrong on that, but im pretty sure that is the case.
Yeah, it's actually huge.... There's no arbitrary cap on game time played to be put in master league, in fact you can be placed directly into master right from placement matches, the only league you cannot go RIGHT into is grandmaster.
At higher levels the skill gap is exponentially increasing, like the difference between a 80 rank 100 pt masters player and a top 5 800+ point masters player is gigantic, I'd say even larger than the entire skill difference from bronze to plat maybe even diamond. And when you get up to that level, the skill difference between that top masters player and a top GM is even larger.
People actually underestimate just how much better top pros are than top masters players.... Like if I played 100 games against Idra I would lose literally 100% of them unless I got lucky in a coinflip or something to win 1 game out of 100. And the skill gap increases for top korean pros etc etc....
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On April 26 2012 05:54 HyperionDreamer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:53 Ballistixz wrote:
the skill ceiling between high diamond and high masters actually isnt that huge, it just depends largely on the skill of the individual player, not the league. high diamond and masters are close enough tbh. infact if im not mistaken, the main difference between diamond players and master players is the amount of game hours? like u have to play for a certain amount of time to get into masters where as diamond has no such limit. i could be wrong on that, but im pretty sure that is the case.
Yeah, it's actually huge.... There's no arbitrary cap on game time played to be put in master league, in fact you can be placed directly into master right from placement matches, the only league you cannot go RIGHT into is grandmaster. At higher levels the skill gap is exponentially increasing, like the difference between a 80 rank 100 pt masters player and a top 5 800+ point masters player is gigantic, I'd say even larger than the entire skill difference from bronze to plat maybe even diamond. And when you get up to that level, the skill difference between that top masters player and a top GM is even larger. People actually underestimate just how much better top pros are than top masters players.... Like if I played 100 games against Idra I would lose literally 100% of them unless I got lucky in a coinflip or something to win 1 game out of 100. And the skill gap increases for top korean pros etc etc....
The highest you can be placed into is platinum (I've tested it on 3 different accounts). And as a diamond who plays with both my bronze league brother, and mid-masters friend, I'd say that saying diamond is closer to bronze than to masters is a -little- bit of a stretch. But yeah, the difference between low masters and high masters is huge, and I honestly think they should make it 2 different leagues.
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I don't know if playing against better players necessarily translates into improving your skill. Yes, it does to extent, but I think it depends more on your actualy analysis of your lost games and adjustments.
With the old system you'd eventually move up anyway if you were doing well and get to those better players eventually, but in a more organized and stable fashion.
With this new system, it's kinda more chaotic and it's harder to see if you're improving or not when you beat a favoured player one time but lose to an even player another time.
Just my thoughts.
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OK, thats it.... I'm officially fucking fed up with their nonsense
Some Im playing some more today despite how much I hate this change and what do I get? A masters.... Im borderline gold/ plat. Currently gold this season and plat last 3 seasons.
My opponent hadnt played last season so he was automatically dropped one whole league because of Blizz stupid system and now that things are more loose, I get to play him as a gold!!!! Fuck that and FUCK THIS CHANGE
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On April 26 2012 06:00 Michal wrote:
I don't know if playing against better players necessarily translates into improving your skill. Yes, it does to extent, but I think it depends more on your actualy analysis of your lost games and adjustments.
With the old system you'd eventually move up anyway if you were doing well and get to those better players eventually, but in a more organized and stable fashion.
With this new system, it's kinda more chaotic and it's harder to see if you're improving or not when you beat a favoured player one time but lose to an even player another time.
Just my thoughts.
I think that being able to play significantly better players -once in a while- is a better learning experience than playing even players every game. Sometimes, I'd rather get my ass handed to me so I can look at all the things he did better than me, than to play a grueling 30 minute game which is even the entire time, and end up losing because I misplaced an overlord and didn't see a doom drop coming until he had 24 marines killing all my tech.
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Unfortunately, until the they come to their senses I'll strictly be sticking to the diamond+ practice channel and playhem for my games. At least here I'll be able to get more balanced and equally skilled matches than I can gather from the ladder.
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On April 25 2012 21:57 [RS]Fuchs wrote:
Well, i played 10-15 games today and i have to say this not a very good thing (at least for me). I'm a mid-high ranked (ladderwise) silver player trying to random into gold. So i face the usual mid high gold and silver players which gives me a +/- 60%-70% winrate. Today i faced like 5+ Plat players which of course kicked my ass. The last one was a top 8 ranked plat player. I mean wtf am i supposed to do? I can beat high gold players >50% of the time and my silver leaguers as well but there is this skill gap which makes it nearly impossible for me to win these games.
After my games today i had a winrate of 40% and i'm quite unhappy with this change. I suppose it's not that big of an issue for the like plat+ players because they have a chance to win against a masters player. But i personaly think that there is no way a semi good silver player or mid-low gold player can beat a top 8 ranked plat or diamond player. If they manage to beat them (in like one of 10-20 games) the other player messed up terribly and nothing is won experiencewise for the lower players. In my opinion nobody is able to learn anyting from these games and it makes it way harder to get into a higher league.
Overall it makes the game on my lvl just quite frustrating *sigh*
Silver player here and I'm with you on it bro. Sure, it felt good beating a top gold player but I'd much prefer steady progress. I remember when just before I got out of bronze I was being matched with silver players and eventually poped into silver. It felt so much smoother.
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On April 26 2012 06:01 CaptainCrush wrote:
OK, thats it.... I'm officially fucking fed up with their nonsense
Some Im playing some more today despite how much I hate this change and what do I get? A masters.... Im borderline gold/ plat. Currently gold this season and plat last 3 seasons.
My opponent hadnt played last season so he was automatically dropped one whole league because of Blizz stupid system and now that things are more loose, I get to play him as a gold!!!! Fuck that and FUCK THIS CHANGE
but you get to learn so much and improve by playing with a much better player! =)))
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On April 26 2012 03:53 Ballistixz wrote:this system annoys me mainly because of being matched with bad players. sure its a easy win, but most of the time u are trying to figure out wtf they are doing. u see a toss player 1 base for 7+ mins and in ur head u are thinking he is going DTs or some other 1 base all in shit, but instead he does jack shit on 1 base and then he just expands at 8 mins..... so it turned out he was just terribad. honestly a huge waste of time. or u get 6 pooled/1 base SCV all inned. quite annoying to deal with easy win or not. why waste my time on people like this? its utter retardation. the points u get for the win is so insignificant anyway because he was so damn bad... and in the off chance that u lose to such stupidness then its not like u can learn anything from reviewing the replay -_- Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 21:05 sAsImre wrote:On April 25 2012 20:59 Plexa wrote:To be fair, protech is now a top8 masters player so.. which is like 10time more skilled than any high diamond... the skill ceiling between high diamond and high masters actually isnt that huge, it just depends largely on the skill of the individual player, not the league. high diamond and masters are close enough tbh. infact if im not mistaken, the main difference between diamond players and master players is the amount of game hours? like u have to play for a certain amount of time to get into masters where as diamond has no such limit. i could be wrong on that, but im pretty sure that is the case.
It always amazes me how someone who has no clue can just randomly make something up and then believe it O_O What even gave you the idea that this was the case?
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On April 26 2012 06:13 Michal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 06:01 CaptainCrush wrote:
OK, thats it.... I'm officially fucking fed up with their nonsense
Some Im playing some more today despite how much I hate this change and what do I get? A masters.... Im borderline gold/ plat. Currently gold this season and plat last 3 seasons.
My opponent hadnt played last season so he was automatically dropped one whole league because of Blizz stupid system and now that things are more loose, I get to play him as a gold!!!! Fuck that and FUCK THIS CHANGE but you get to learn so much and improve by playing with a much better player! =)))
No, you don't. I explained this earlier in the thread. You might learn a bit from somebody who is slightly better, but playing vs someone miles better doesnt teach you much at all. If youre facing against someone slightly better you might have chance to see where you went wrong, you might notice its a micro problem, macro problem, built wrong units, slow to react or whatever that lost you the match, it might have been just 1 or 2 minor thing that you could have done better and maybe won. When you face somebody who is miles better you get steamrolled and you really dont learn much. There are so many areas that they are performing a lot better than you in that you just dont learn anything from it.
And to the few people who seem to think the new matchmaking system is good, I'm sure you wouldnt mind an option so people could just choose to be mismatched, then the majority of us who prefer even games could just switch it off.
Also Blizzard did say the main aim of this change was because people would find it "fun" to be matched against better or worse players, but it seems that a lot of people are finding it far from "fun."
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This is an awesome change! Playing against better opponents is of course always better, so ultimately I would like to meet only much better players, but in ladder someone always has to be the "better" player. But I'd much rather play some better opponents once in a while for good practise at the cost of having some low quality games where you can just do whatever you want, practise perfect macro or micro and not focus too much on strategy.
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I might ladder again now due to this, before I wasn't so sure.
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On April 26 2012 06:31 Zheryn wrote:
This is an awesome change! Playing against better opponents is of course always better, so ultimately I would like to meet only much better players, but in ladder someone always has to be the "better" player. But I'd much rather play some better opponents once in a while for good practise at the cost of having some low quality games where you can just do whatever you want, practise perfect macro or micro and not focus too much on strategy.
It isn't ALWAYS better, seems plenty of people don't think it's better at all.
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On April 26 2012 06:29 scotth85 wrote:playing vs someone miles better doesnt teach you much at all. If youre facing against someone slightly better you might have chance to see where you went wrong, you might notice its a micro problem, macro problem, built wrong units, slow to react or whatever that lost you the match, it might have been just 1 or 2 minor thing that you could have done better and maybe won. When you face somebody who is miles better you get steamrolled and you really dont learn much. There are so many areas that they are performing a lot better than you in that you just dont learn anything from it.
You can always learn more from playing a very good player. In any league under Master, people can't really execute any build properly, so you can win a lot of the games due to your oppoonents mistakes. For example, I (diamond player) don't really enjoy winning against someone who does some kind of timing attack for example if I know the same attack could potentially come 1 minute earlier if executed perfectly. I might barely defend it and then I would treat that as a loss since I should have lost if my opponent didn't play bad. Or if I kill of a drop that he should have gotten away with if he was watching it, I just get ahead without actually doing something clever. It would be much more worthwhile to play vs an opponent who did save that drop, then I would get to think "is there any way I can kill of that drop?", and I might come to the conclusion that I need a spore, a burrowed infestor or something.
All people will of course make mistakes, but playing against someone who do less mistakes and who executes builds etc properly teaches you much more about how you need to play vs different stuff.
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On April 26 2012 06:29 scotth85 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 06:13 Michal wrote:On April 26 2012 06:01 CaptainCrush wrote:
OK, thats it.... I'm officially fucking fed up with their nonsense
Some Im playing some more today despite how much I hate this change and what do I get? A masters.... Im borderline gold/ plat. Currently gold this season and plat last 3 seasons.
My opponent hadnt played last season so he was automatically dropped one whole league because of Blizz stupid system and now that things are more loose, I get to play him as a gold!!!! Fuck that and FUCK THIS CHANGE but you get to learn so much and improve by playing with a much better player! =))) No, you don't. I explained this earlier in the thread. You might learn a bit from somebody who is slightly better, but playing vs someone miles better doesnt teach you much at all. If youre facing against someone slightly better you might have chance to see where you went wrong, you might notice its a micro problem, macro problem, built wrong units, slow to react or whatever that lost you the match, it might have been just 1 or 2 minor thing that you could have done better and maybe won. When you face somebody who is miles better you get steamrolled and you really dont learn much. There are so many areas that they are performing a lot better than you in that you just dont learn anything from it. And to the few people who seem to think the new matchmaking system is good, I'm sure you wouldnt mind an option so people could just choose to be mismatched, then the majority of us who prefer even games could just switch it off. Also Blizzard did say the main aim of this change was because people would find it "fun" to be matched against better or worse players, but it seems that a lot of people are finding it far from "fun."
I was being sarcastic 
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EPT
