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This absolutely sucks. I keep getting my ass crushed my Master league players and I just got into Diamond myself. What the hell were they thinking?
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On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) ![[image loading]](http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/matchmaking.jpg)
Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all.
Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too.
At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get.
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On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too.
The point is some people don't have fun stomping or being stomped. It's not about efficient training or not. It's about the fact that almost every game now is completely one sided. It's boring as crap. Yes I get alot more wins than I used to since I all of suddenly play alot of Diamonds/low Masters. Is it fun for me? No. It's a waste of my time.
On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get.
That's completely untrue. You don't get better playing people much better or much worse than you. And personally stomps aren't fun for me, even though in this new broken AutoMM I'm on the winning side the vast majority of the time.
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On April 25 2012 05:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 05:24 Nereas wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but what I find most frustrating about this change is how there have never been any significant complaints about matchmaking from the community. There exists a large array of issues that the community is vocal about and would strongly like to see addressed, yet Blizzard chooses to modify something that just about everybody was totally satisfied with. In my opinion, that is just insulting to the community. Makes it feel like Blizzard is intentionally ignoring our complaints and our feedback.
It seems that these days game developers have forgotten that their role was once the benevolent stewards of the worlds that their users come to live and play in. They seem to now think of themselves as the Gods who sit on their developer thrones and dictate what their users will and will not do with an iron fist.
More on topic: the changes seem to make ladder significantly less fun for the supposed benefit of shorter queues (although my queues have been longer since the change). The changes seem to have an even more significant negative impact on team leagues. Regardless of whether I queue with my high master teams or my lower level friends, the MMR and skill level of our opponents seems completely and totally random. I've crushed bronze level ATs on my top master team, and I've been crushed by master level ATs with my lowbie friends on our gold team. It's completely random and useless.
Thankfully 1v1 seems to be slightly more stable than that, but still irritating to say the least. Community outcry is not the only reason for change. Blizzard might have seen other issues, like players stagnating in their league due to playing a specific way or over all slow progress. Personlly, I would rather play people who are much better than me, as opposed to grind it out and improve super slowly. It is also a good way to kill bad builds, like 3 rax medivac(I know, but its a thing in the super low leagues vs protoss, there is no reason it should work).
I don't understand how the changes would fix any of that? How would it suddenly "kill" builds? A lot of things work in low leagues that should never work... that's common to all ladder systems, skill curves.
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does this mean their not changing it again for a while?
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I like the fact that they finally did a pros vs. joes update where both sides got the things they needed 
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On April 25 2012 04:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:57 Adonminus wrote:
Yeah, I was getting the same issue. High master here, getting matched vs mid masters and winning 5 points, then matched vs high gm winning 23 points, pretty weird. I liked the old system more, getting matched vs high level players is fun, but at the cost of wasting time on mid masters isn't that fun. It is a small price to pay for a better ladder over all. I have hopes that a broader system will help players improve and see the flaw in their play style. It is better to remind people how much better they could be every once and a while, rather then have them grind out games and slowly improve through the slow grind. Or as Nony would put it: You have to go outside your comfort zone to make any real improvement.
I agree. I'm just a high diamond player, but last night I got matched against a guy in top 8 master. I lost of course, but I learned a ton about the holes in my play just from a single game. Def. going to be analyzing that replay a lot.
I guess it kinda sucks for the high master player though... but maybe he/she gets a similar experience from playing GMs?
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On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get.
When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close...
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On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything.
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On April 25 2012 06:10 roym899 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything.
Anyone in mid-high Masters would definitely have noticed and said something about the change if Blizzard hadn't said anything. It was noticeable even when Blizzard claimed to have 'reverted' the changes. It's a waste of time for us unless you like free wins.
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On April 25 2012 06:13 oxxo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:10 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything. Anyone in mid-high Masters would definitely have noticed and said something about the change if Blizzard hadn't said anything. It was noticeable even when Blizzard claimed to have 'reverted' the changes. It's a waste of time for us unless you like free wins. But it's a very nice addition when you get stomped by a better player as you can learn so much from this. And, well, this isn't possible if those wouldn't play you.
Edit: Probably an option to activate or deactivate this would be nice.
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On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close...
But you'll also face better opponents yourself. Are you arguing you can't learn anything playing tougher opponents? It's not a one way street.
They also wrote:
Matchmaking will not be more relaxed at the highest skill levels.
So once you get good enough your scenario would not happen.
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On April 24 2012 23:03 Alryk wrote:
The thing you should remember is for every game you lose to a lower ranked player, you should be able to nab one off a higher ranked every now and then. Don't just look at the lower end of the spectrum haha.
As a masters player it sounds interesting. Can't wait to try it tonight.
Stop making sense, its upsetting me.
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On April 25 2012 06:10 roym899 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything.
I'm sure people would have noticed... high masters playing, low masters and diamonds, etc. It's pretty noticeable. Also, lol at the people who think this is going to help them improve faster. Practicing against people significantly better than you is just as worthless as playing people much worse than you. It's not a good gauge of anything.
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I'm mid-high masters and I love the new changes. I like being challenged by high masters players and the occasional pro level guy (and I sometimes win! but not often). It just makes me a better player to see how corners I cut vs. mid-masters players will lose me games at the higher levels. I also really love the challenge and the excitement of beating someone that good.
I play the high diamond guys from time to time too... that's ok. Gives me a relatively stress free game to work on my mechanics and builds but in a ladder setting (diff from playing a custom with friends).
A+ blizz.
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On April 25 2012 06:19 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:10 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything. I'm sure people would have noticed... high masters playing, low masters and diamonds, etc. It's pretty noticeable. Also, lol at the people who think this is going to help them improve faster. Practicing against people significantly better than you is just as worthless as playing people much worse than you. It's not a good gauge of anything. Then you probably don't know how to learn from losses but rage when you lose instead of analyzing the differencies in decision making and playstyle between you and your opponent.
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On April 25 2012 06:25 roym899 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 06:19 SupLilSon wrote:On April 25 2012 06:10 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 06:07 Hoodlum wrote:On April 25 2012 06:01 roym899 wrote:On April 25 2012 04:33 Mendelfist wrote:On April 25 2012 04:18 roym899 wrote:
Lol 90% complaining here is so hilarious. Seriously I haven't even noticed any change yet and you guys just seem to think this does change SOO much. Maybe you live on another planet. I don't know. Here is a graph of the variance in my opponents MMR this season. Do you notice something happening around match nr 30? (The downward slope is due to my points still converging to my own MMR.) Funny how the ranking of your opponent bothers you. Tbh I don't even look at this at the top of the screen as this doesn't tell you anything. For example you could see your opponent as Favored and he sees you as favored. So your graph doesn't tell you anything at all. Just play this game and have fun dude. Really some guys just take this really to serious. I can understand if you critisize it if you are Top Masters player and ladder play isn't as efficiant traning anymore but as Blizz said the effect won't take place in the top notch places so it shouldn't bother you too. At all complaining: Why do you play ladder? To win? Or to get better? Or to have fun? The last two are completely irrelevant from the opponent you get. When I play some low masters kid who does a laughable horrible attempt at some one base all in that I crush terribly tell me exactly what it is about that game that made me a better player? Or even worst when he goes into a macro game I max and rofl stomp him, I just don't see the benefits of this... And as for your other point, there is nothing fun about having completely one sided games, the fun lies within winning a game that was extremely close... Imho you had such games before too. It would have been really interesting to see if anyone would have complained about this if Blizz hasn't said anything. I'm sure people would have noticed... high masters playing, low masters and diamonds, etc. It's pretty noticeable. Also, lol at the people who think this is going to help them improve faster. Practicing against people significantly better than you is just as worthless as playing people much worse than you. It's not a good gauge of anything. Then you probably don't know how to learn from losses but rage when you lose instead of analyzing the differencies in decision making and playstyle between you and your opponent.
Ok buddy, jumping right to those conclusions. Obviously I'm some rage filled internet warrior. If you want to watch good players, this website has a pretty comprehensive list of all pro SC2 players streaming first person. It's pretty easy to get a sense of their decision making and play styles. Playing against a better opponent might be fun once in a while just to get a benchmark of sorts but it's not helpful for either player. If you've ever played a competitive sport you'd realize this. You need to practice with people around your skill level and gradually increase difficulty as you increase in skill, not sporadically playing people of varying degrees of skill.
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Blizzard said they were doing this matchmaking change because they thought it would be "fun" to face people who are better or worse than yourself. If people find it "fun" then give them an option to choose whether to have mismatched games on or not. I would certainly rather not have them on. I'm in top gold, and was facing mainly low platinums. Suddenly I'm facing diamonds as well as low golds. Now people might say that you will learn from facing better people but I disagree, you only learn sometimes.
For example I play protoss and the mid/low platinum terrans I was getting matched against normally are starting to do quite a few more 1/1/1 and all in builds that gold terans dont do. I have trouble against them but I accept that i need to learn and I was slowly learning from them. The thing is they dont execute these builds so well but I havent faced them much so I was slowly learning them - but still losing most of them. Then suddenly I face diamond terrans who pull the builds of so much better that I feel as though its pointless even trying. I can't learn much at all from a game like that because there are all sorts of issues, micro issues, build issues, reaction problems, etc etc. All of these build up a huge amount more when I'm faced against much better players. I don't learn anything from it and it isn't "fun" at all. Losing isn't fun, I accept I am going to lose sometimes and that's fine, but losing in games where it feels like I don't have a chance at all is far from fun and far from an acceptable loss, it just feels like a waste of my time and probably a waste of the favoured players time who gets very few points and also learns nothing.
Also, it's not like I play perfectly every game, although I do win most games when I'm favoured, I do lose a few as well and that is irritating - not fun, just irritating. As I say, people who find it fun could just switch the option to be mismatched on and people who don't like it (which I honestly think would be the majority of ladder players) can switch it off and learn the get better at a steady manageable pace.
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Blizzard's reasoning isn't sound if this change was actually made to increase their bastardized understanding of "fun". If lower leagues wanted to play higher leagues, there's this little map called "1v1 Obs", along with a dozen others where they can do just that. Instead, and by some very poor use of reasoning, they decided to change the ladder--the center stage for which the game revolves around in balanced matches--so radically (playing people in ± 2 leagues is radical, don't kid yourself) that it defeats the purpose of having a ladder in the first place; fine tuned skill assessment and placement.
They would be crazy to keep such a thing implemented.
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This makes me very sad. What makes me even more sad, is that apparently this has backing from a large segment of the community, which means it's unlikely this will ever go away.
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EPT
