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On March 18 2012 17:21 NekoFlandre wrote: Errrrrr......
This is good but...yea not good.
I mean. OGN / KeSPA? Really? Look how they destroyed foreigner SC1 play (basically)
damn thoes koreans for being to good. Kespa never had anything against foreigners, they were just to bad to compete
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On March 18 2012 17:33 hydrogg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:21 NekoFlandre wrote: Errrrrr......
This is good but...yea not good.
I mean. OGN / KeSPA? Really? Look how they destroyed foreigner SC1 play (basically) It's good for the Korean teams, but what about the current partnerships? (Will KeSPA regulate them?) What about Current players / teams / deals with players? (Would KeSPA get a say in it?)
How will it effect the current atmosphere of Players traveling around the world to other tournies such as MLG / IPL? They won't be able to. Proleague is a yearly event with multiple matches per week until the post season. Players can't be in 2 places at once.
Are line-ups that strict? Cant a player go to a foreign tournament and have someone else take their spot on the bench. There is not gaurantee they will play either right? Teams have larger rosters then just the # of players need to be available for a particular match for just this reason. If a player is sick or unable to compete, they are temporarily replaced right?
Players could travel, but they just may be a bit more limited if teams specifically request their presence during a particular series. I mean, they are playing for a cash prize and prestige in proleague, but if they let one of their aces go for a weekend and possible miss one series, they can earn like $50k right then and there.
It would seem to be a case by case basis, but I would suspect most teams would have more high caliber players to play then spots needed for a series.
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On March 18 2012 16:56 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:45 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:42 hp.Shell wrote:On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote: as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2. The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling. The problem right now is that OGN is broadcasting so many games, their TV schedule is so packed. Another issue is that for Kespa/OGN to get the rights to broadcast SC2, Blizzard will probably demand a complete switch. Blizzard is not really in position to demand much. I don't know why people act as if Blizzard was this big evil larger than governments corporation. 1st of all why would they demand the removal of one of their games from the lineup, its good business that maybe some people will see BW proleague and MAYBE will think "oh cool, I heard there is a sequel I might try it." and they can brag that they have 3 games as popular e sports(Warcraft III is still pretty popular in China IIRC). 2nd of all Kespa is backed by 11(Eleven) corporations. Amongst them big boys like Samsung. So its not like its big ol bad evil corporation against a small band of people with a dream. If anything Blizzard is the underdog here lol. But well that was not my point. Blizzard is in no position to make any unreasonable demands, especially since there are monetary interests by the KESPA members into the BW proleague. IMO this is good news, I don't think BW will die as long as it keeps being profitable(duh) for the sponsors. Blizzard doesn't really have that much of a vested interest in killing BW as long as its games get exposure.The exposure that SC2 might get through this will definitively help the SC2 korean scene. Its pretty much win win unless you think Blizzard is petty and jealous of their own game being more popular than their other game even though both games give exposure to their brand name that will probably lead to more sales. And I don't get why people think Blizzard is throwing GOM under the bus. More than 1 tournament can coexist and I don't see Blizzard really giving exclusive rights now that the KESPA situation has been resolved(or at least that seems so) I wonder how long will it take until the elephant in the room thread gets bumped.... BTW does anyone has the ratings for OGNs gaming shows? If we are looking who will get replaced it will probably be the one with less ratings.
Were you living under a rock the past couple of years? Blizzard wanted a full switch, they also demanded full rights to any content KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame (back when it still produced BW content) produces, as well as contracts with progamers that override their contracts with KeSPA teams. Blizzard also wanted BW events to be rescheduled so that SC2 events could take their primetime slots. They even sued OGN and MBCGame.
Blizzard certainly wanted to kill BW, but they failed.
Also they might not dump GOMTV, but the sole reason why they were given such ridiculously favourable terms was to combat KeSPA in the field of Korean esports. Not only could they have not given GOMTV those ridiculous demands they had given to KeSPA (because Gretech doesn't own any teams, had little StarCraft 2 content compared to the multitude of shows/event KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame produced, and didn't have to sacrifice any of their premier shows/leagues to feature SC2), but they have poured a lot of money into their enterprises so that they could even consider competing with OGN/MBCGame.
If Blizzard strikes a deal with KeSPA, then there's no reason for GOMTV to have such ridiculously favourable terms.
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On March 18 2012 15:22 HejaBVB wrote:Show nested quote +Just read that the OGN LoL tournament is going to have an English stream. That gives me great hope that the SC2 Proleague will have one as well. Not sure if serious or just stupid... No SC2 league cares about the few korean viewers. the sponsor-money in korea is a joke compared to the rest of the world. foreign viewers are worth so much more.
Not sure why it's a forgone conclusion that a Korean TV channel would stream to foreign fans. The LoL tournament looks like it is sponsored by a German company. I'm guessing something similar would need to happen for the SC2 Proleague to be available to us in English. As far as I know OGN hasn't ever done broadcasts soley for the foreign fans. My point was that now we have good actual evidence that they will broadcast in English to foreign audiences that exist.
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anyone that is naive enough to believe that there is room for two true korean "professional" leagues needs to not speak. there are so many reasons why this scenario is nigh impossible.
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I hope Kespa teams will send at least 1 representative to battle in other tournaments as well .
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On March 18 2012 15:05 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:57 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:53 jinorazi wrote: i know its just for money but...
am i the only one that thinks sc2 isn't ready to replace bw? as in bw pros (kespa) players switching over.
i'm ok with bw and sc2, i'm ok with sc2 overtaking bw, i just dont think sc2 is up to par yet. i actually think bw is much better than sc2 in every aspect except for new players to learn the game so korean esports will probably be split into sc2, lol and some other games and never be as united as it has been with bw Indeed, we're already seeing players move on by retiring, switching to games like LoL, etc. There's been plenty of talk about that too. Have to wait and see what happens. We actually see this only with players that basically fell behind and couldn't keep up with the pros...A sign that skill gap is continously widening. Which is something we see in game as well: cheese is getting rarer because people know how to defend it by now, late game is being explored, pros working on the smallest of mistakes etc.
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On March 18 2012 17:46 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 16:56 windsupernova wrote:On March 18 2012 14:45 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:42 hp.Shell wrote:On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote: as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2. The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling. The problem right now is that OGN is broadcasting so many games, their TV schedule is so packed. Another issue is that for Kespa/OGN to get the rights to broadcast SC2, Blizzard will probably demand a complete switch. Blizzard is not really in position to demand much. I don't know why people act as if Blizzard was this big evil larger than governments corporation. 1st of all why would they demand the removal of one of their games from the lineup, its good business that maybe some people will see BW proleague and MAYBE will think "oh cool, I heard there is a sequel I might try it." and they can brag that they have 3 games as popular e sports(Warcraft III is still pretty popular in China IIRC). 2nd of all Kespa is backed by 11(Eleven) corporations. Amongst them big boys like Samsung. So its not like its big ol bad evil corporation against a small band of people with a dream. If anything Blizzard is the underdog here lol. But well that was not my point. Blizzard is in no position to make any unreasonable demands, especially since there are monetary interests by the KESPA members into the BW proleague. IMO this is good news, I don't think BW will die as long as it keeps being profitable(duh) for the sponsors. Blizzard doesn't really have that much of a vested interest in killing BW as long as its games get exposure.The exposure that SC2 might get through this will definitively help the SC2 korean scene. Its pretty much win win unless you think Blizzard is petty and jealous of their own game being more popular than their other game even though both games give exposure to their brand name that will probably lead to more sales. And I don't get why people think Blizzard is throwing GOM under the bus. More than 1 tournament can coexist and I don't see Blizzard really giving exclusive rights now that the KESPA situation has been resolved(or at least that seems so) I wonder how long will it take until the elephant in the room thread gets bumped.... BTW does anyone has the ratings for OGNs gaming shows? If we are looking who will get replaced it will probably be the one with less ratings. Were you living under a rock the past couple of years? Blizzard wanted a full switch, they also demanded full rights to any content KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame (back when it still produced BW content) produces, as well as contracts with progamers that override their contracts with KeSPA teams. Blizzard also wanted BW events to be rescheduled so that SC2 events could take their primetime slots. They even sued OGN and MBCGame. Blizzard certainly wanted to kill BW, but they failed. Also they might not dump GOMTV, but the sole reason why they were given such ridiculously favourable terms was to combat KeSPA in the field of Korean esports. Not only could they have not given GOMTV those ridiculous demands they had given to KeSPA (because Gretech doesn't own any teams, had little StarCraft 2 content compared to the multitude of shows/event KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame produced, and didn't have to sacrifice any of their premier shows/leagues to feature SC2), but they have poured a lot of money into their enterprises so that they could even consider competing with OGN/MBCGame. If Blizzard strikes a deal with KeSPA, then there's no reason for GOMTV to have such ridiculously favourable terms.
Well, one reason would be GOMTV's (hypothetical) willingness to let Blizzard be more involved and represented at their events combined with active relationship building and any infrastructure they are building together with foreign tournaments to help players participate and attend in as many global events as possible.
Compare that to KeSPA deciding, as many in this thread have noted, not to pursue any real relationship with the foreign any more then they absolutely have to, and go with an extremely Korean centric vision for the SC2 scene. Attempt to reestablish that regimented elite scene at home regardless of the scene at large.
Blizzard, from what I can tell, is interested in attempting to fabricate a globally profitable e-sports scene. Where WoW has global subscriptions, SC2 will have global tournaments other organizations Blizzard can reap a percentage of. KeSPA (unconfirmed, but based on history), has a particular Korean-centric (obviously its in the name) view of esports "success". In that regard, even under the best compromise, Blizzard may still show GOM favor after the KeSPA deal if KeSPA does not share some kind of...symbiotic?....business goals. Its not worth the hassle to Blizzard I suspect.
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I worry sometimes about the state of Blizzard as a company.
Sure they make dicktons of money, but when you think about how its being split (WoW, SC2, D3, "Titan"), plus the current economy, I'd imagine they're not in the best position to throw money around until these upcoming projects bear fruit.
On the other hand though, plus points to Mike for being so cool in that pic.
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On March 18 2012 14:03 Kar98 wrote:As a SC2 fan it would be a shame to see BW end. I don't see why both can't exist, just like many sports exist. Hell, in australia we have 3 'footballs' and soccer and they are still going strong after 100 years 
because there isn't enough money in the industry to support both pro level bw and sc2. If the only BW broadcaster left says no more OSL, no more BW pro-league, what do you think will happen? Teams will switch over, some players will retire, some will switch over. For the greater good of e-sports i hope that most of the gosu players will switch over to SC2
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On March 18 2012 18:15 Crue wrote: anyone that is naive enough to believe that there is room for two true korean "professional" leagues needs to not speak. there are so many reasons why this scenario is nigh impossible. because the osl and msl never coexisted...
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YES!!!! so happy to hear/read this! i hope that all bw teams switch to this newly founded pro-league/sc2 eventually! i also doubt that the gsl will fall b/c of this. it has made its self a name and come a long way. also there are so many beloved memories and a lot of people probably have a year long ticket already (plus the co-op w/ mlg).
as for the pro-league i am not sure of course but i could imagine that less koreans would travel over seas. if there are two major tournaments in korea (gsl and pro league) than they will have simply less time. on the other hand if a player were to fall out of both tournaments in the first rounds than this problem would not occur at all.
i could also imagine certain tournaments paying certain players more, to play for them exclusively. at the end of the day the system w/ two major tournaments worked in bw as well (msl and osl).
anyways great news, i hope that the bw scene with all the players, teams, tv staff will not simply die due to issues between blizzard and kespa!
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On March 18 2012 18:35 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:46 maybenexttime wrote:On March 18 2012 16:56 windsupernova wrote:On March 18 2012 14:45 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:42 hp.Shell wrote:On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote: as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2. The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling. The problem right now is that OGN is broadcasting so many games, their TV schedule is so packed. Another issue is that for Kespa/OGN to get the rights to broadcast SC2, Blizzard will probably demand a complete switch. Blizzard is not really in position to demand much. I don't know why people act as if Blizzard was this big evil larger than governments corporation. 1st of all why would they demand the removal of one of their games from the lineup, its good business that maybe some people will see BW proleague and MAYBE will think "oh cool, I heard there is a sequel I might try it." and they can brag that they have 3 games as popular e sports(Warcraft III is still pretty popular in China IIRC). 2nd of all Kespa is backed by 11(Eleven) corporations. Amongst them big boys like Samsung. So its not like its big ol bad evil corporation against a small band of people with a dream. If anything Blizzard is the underdog here lol. But well that was not my point. Blizzard is in no position to make any unreasonable demands, especially since there are monetary interests by the KESPA members into the BW proleague. IMO this is good news, I don't think BW will die as long as it keeps being profitable(duh) for the sponsors. Blizzard doesn't really have that much of a vested interest in killing BW as long as its games get exposure.The exposure that SC2 might get through this will definitively help the SC2 korean scene. Its pretty much win win unless you think Blizzard is petty and jealous of their own game being more popular than their other game even though both games give exposure to their brand name that will probably lead to more sales. And I don't get why people think Blizzard is throwing GOM under the bus. More than 1 tournament can coexist and I don't see Blizzard really giving exclusive rights now that the KESPA situation has been resolved(or at least that seems so) I wonder how long will it take until the elephant in the room thread gets bumped.... BTW does anyone has the ratings for OGNs gaming shows? If we are looking who will get replaced it will probably be the one with less ratings. Were you living under a rock the past couple of years? Blizzard wanted a full switch, they also demanded full rights to any content KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame (back when it still produced BW content) produces, as well as contracts with progamers that override their contracts with KeSPA teams. Blizzard also wanted BW events to be rescheduled so that SC2 events could take their primetime slots. They even sued OGN and MBCGame. Blizzard certainly wanted to kill BW, but they failed. Also they might not dump GOMTV, but the sole reason why they were given such ridiculously favourable terms was to combat KeSPA in the field of Korean esports. Not only could they have not given GOMTV those ridiculous demands they had given to KeSPA (because Gretech doesn't own any teams, had little StarCraft 2 content compared to the multitude of shows/event KeSPA/OGN/MBCGame produced, and didn't have to sacrifice any of their premier shows/leagues to feature SC2), but they have poured a lot of money into their enterprises so that they could even consider competing with OGN/MBCGame. If Blizzard strikes a deal with KeSPA, then there's no reason for GOMTV to have such ridiculously favourable terms. Well, one reason would be GOMTV's (hypothetical) willingness to let Blizzard be more involved and represented at their events combined with active relationship building and any infrastructure they are building together with foreign tournaments to help players participate and attend in as many global events as possible. Compare that to KeSPA deciding, as many in this thread have noted, not to pursue any real relationship with the foreign any more then they absolutely have to, and go with an extremely Korean centric vision for the SC2 scene. Attempt to reestablish that regimented elite scene at home regardless of the scene at large. Blizzard, from what I can tell, is interested in attempting to fabricate a globally profitable e-sports scene. Where WoW has global subscriptions, SC2 will have global tournaments other organizations Blizzard can reap a percentage of. KeSPA (unconfirmed, but based on history), has a particular Korean-centric (obviously its in the name) view of esports "success". In that regard, even under the best compromise, Blizzard may still show GOM favor after the KeSPA deal if KeSPA does not share some kind of...symbiotic?....business goals. Its not worth the hassle to Blizzard I suspect.
KeSPA invited whole teams to participate in WC3 Clan League and their individual leagues. They created a team full of foreigners in the early days of BW (Hexatron, IIRC), and kept inviting foreigners to their teams over the years, even though they were rather mediocre (with Draco and Nony being probably the only promising players in the recent years). They had relations with some Chinese teams (sending PJ and Lx to SKT to compete in ProLeague, but they were simply not good enough), as well as Chinese broadcasters (broadcasting contracts).
The reason why BW got so Korean-centric was because there was simply no real market to explore in the West. Like people said, KeSPA is already open to the foreign scene when it comes to LoL. There's no reason for them not to embrace the foreign scene.
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On March 18 2012 14:31 gen.Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:28 vOdToasT wrote:On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote: couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d. Yes, scarabs not detonating was added in a patch. Seriously, these noobs... Yes yes, yes. Lots of things you think are weird in BW are intentional.
Just a myth. Or at least there's no evidence for it, and it doesn't make a lot of sense. Its origin is something Boxer said in his biography about Reavers being made stupid, but he was referring to a patch change that gave them a longer cooldown before firing when unloaded from a Shuttle.
Scarabs dud when they can't path to their target, which is a product of SC's universally wonky ai. It's not like a percent chance or something.
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HUUUUUGGGEEEEEE news for sc2!
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It's sad but true. I can not see much future for sc2. Koreans began to play LoL, so this game can not be so bad. And sc2 is terribly boring.
Anyway BW >>>> All
User was temp banned for this post.
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So much sc2 hate in this thread, it's pretty pathetic actually.
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On March 18 2012 20:47 Yosi wrote: It's sad but true. I can not see much future for sc2. Koreans began to play LoL, so this game can not be so bad. And sc2 is terribly boring.
Anyway BW >>>> All wtf is wrong with you? A new SC2 league has just been announced and you are saying SC2 has no future? If anything then BWs future is as dark as it could be. Even if LoL is overtaking Korea (which is still good for Esports in general), SC2 has still the foreign scene. People need to realize that esports != sc2/bw.
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On March 18 2012 21:08 c0se wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 20:47 Yosi wrote: It's sad but true. I can not see much future for sc2. Koreans began to play LoL, so this game can not be so bad. And sc2 is terribly boring.
Anyway BW >>>> All wtf is wrong with you? A new SC2 league has just been announced and you are saying SC2 has no future? If anything then BWs future is as dark as it could be. Even if LoL is overtaking Korea (which is still good for Esports in general), SC2 has still the foreign scene. People need to realize that esports != sc2/bw.
Many people don't care about "ESPORTS" and just care about their game. Can you blame them? I don't think so
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On March 18 2012 21:09 Linwelin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 21:08 c0se wrote:On March 18 2012 20:47 Yosi wrote: It's sad but true. I can not see much future for sc2. Koreans began to play LoL, so this game can not be so bad. And sc2 is terribly boring.
Anyway BW >>>> All wtf is wrong with you? A new SC2 league has just been announced and you are saying SC2 has no future? If anything then BWs future is as dark as it could be. Even if LoL is overtaking Korea (which is still good for Esports in general), SC2 has still the foreign scene. People need to realize that esports != sc2/bw. Many people don't care about "ESPORTS" and just care about their game. Can you blame them? I don't think so No of course not. For myself, I couldnt care less about LoL or BW. The only online games i play are SC2 and BF3. But im not going to the LoL or BW sections of these forum and bitch about their games.
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