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On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d.
This discussion began with the topic of using the sc2 engine to play bw. I'd really hate to see bw deathballs. Also wth are you talking about with "only downward facing ramps" lol. A ramp has two sides. When you're on the high ground, you face down the ramp. When you're on the low ground, you face up it.
Jade
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On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made.
Nah, I'd just leave it at this: Blizzard absolutely stinks when it comes to designing balanced maps.
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as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well
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On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d.
Yes, scarabs not detonating was added in a patch.
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On March 18 2012 14:26 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. Nah, I'd just leave it at this: Blizzard absolutely stinks when it comes to designing balanced maps.
blizzard didnt design the maps that are used by players with brain
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On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well
... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_-
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On March 18 2012 14:26 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. Nah, I'd just leave it at this: Blizzard absolutely stinks when it comes to designing balanced maps.
Heh, at one point I thought it was intentional.
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On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_-
Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know
come on you have over 10 000 posts
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On March 18 2012 10:59 INTOtheVOID wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 06:39 Forikorder wrote:
has anyone considered BW pros want to switch over to SC2 to make more money? You don't understand how much BW pros make, do you?
It doesn't matter what the pro's make but, what the people paying them want them to play. If the sponsors and teams all got together and said they're going to transition to SC2, the players would be right on that wagon given they are getting the same salary. People with the money have the power and if the Sponsors see more exposure and getting more ROI by jumping to SC2 that's what they are going to do.
Also the guys point wasn't that the pro's are making less money than SC2. Just that right now there are more tournaments in SC2 all over the world and the BW pro's would be making the same money they currently do PLUS all that money currently in SC2 tournaments that they don't have access to.
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On March 18 2012 14:29 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:26 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. Nah, I'd just leave it at this: Blizzard absolutely stinks when it comes to designing balanced maps. Heh, at one point I thought it was intentional.
They can come up with all the excuses in the world. I've heard my fair share. Oh the ladder maps aren't supposed to be designed for tournament play, but to test out different strategies.
Give me a fucking break.
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On March 18 2012 14:28 vOdToasT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d. Yes, scarabs not detonating was added in a patch.
Seriously, these noobs...
Yes yes, yes. Lots of things you think are weird in BW are intentional.
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On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts
What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing?
The tournament is up and running.
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On March 18 2012 13:48 Veldril wrote:
Damn, I really don't understand the negativeness from the BW community. Open a SC2 proleague doesn't mean Kespa has to end the BW one. It can even be more beneficial for both games (BW reaches more of foreign viewers and OGN can adopt GOM system for foreign broadcast/vods, while Gom learns the how to improve the production from OGN, etc).
Really, I don't understand at all. You might feel threaten but at least don't just come in and tell everyone it is a doomsday for BW and hate SC2 for it. It might not even be true. And even you might not like SC2, coming in and flaming the game would only invite other people to flame BW back. Don't we already get tire of BW vs. SC2 drama?
The hostility is not on the fact there might be a SC2 proloeague.
The hostility is triggered by the mentality that for SC2 to succeed, BW needs to die; that KeSPA teams should switch and make the players play a different game for the sake of "ESPORTS".
This mentality is primarily carried by those who do not understand how differently eSports developed in Korea, and overestimate the importance of foreign audiences in the KeSPA model.
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On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running.
The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2.
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On March 18 2012 14:24 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d. Yes, the engine is bad. You said it yourself: the combination of techniques/builds and maps has given us a game that is pretty reasonably balanced. My point is that removing the central pillar around which all these techniques and maps were created - the engine - will basically render years of development moot. It'd basically be a different game with the same units. There's stuff like sc2bw out there, but even they can't overcome all the differences between the two engines.
Oh I wasn't arguing with you, I was addressing the point that BW from a basic out of the box design is considered broken due to a combination of age and bugs, but its that age and bugs that guides the skils and maps which lead to todays "balance". Sorry for the confusion.
On March 18 2012 14:31 gen.Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:28 vOdToasT wrote:On March 18 2012 13:46 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:On March 18 2012 13:30 writer22816 wrote:On March 18 2012 13:23 mtn wrote:On March 18 2012 13:20 Spazer wrote:On March 18 2012 13:08 ke_ivan wrote:
couldn't they just have sc:bw on the sc2 engine? No? Half the reason BW is balanced is because of how the old engine works. If not for those "perfect" maps, BW would have been the most imbalanced game ever made. what the hell are you talking about lol By todays standards BW is broken. But the hardwork and dedication of mapmakers and players to overcome its deficits lead to a balance emerging. Do you really think Blizz intentionally designed Goons to be this stupid or scarabs to run in circles and explode for 0 dmg? Or the fact that there is really no "up" ramps, only downward facing ramps due to the 2d limits of the pseudo-3d. Yes, scarabs not detonating was added in a patch. Seriously, these noobs... Yes yes, yes. Lots of things you think are weird in BW are intentional.
I have owned and played BW since maybe a year after release. I clearly remember unit stupidity was not a patched feature. Maybe some things were, but lots of things you think are intentional in BW are actually just bugs that are being dealt with and sometimes utilized by pros.
P.S. By Up and down ramps, I mean how they face. there is no 2 o clock or 10 o clock ramps built in like the 5 o clock and 8 o clock. They needed to be added later but map makers who cracked the terrain code to all formerly high ground to drop to low ground while moving up.
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On March 18 2012 14:34 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 13:48 Veldril wrote:
Damn, I really don't understand the negativeness from the BW community. Open a SC2 proleague doesn't mean Kespa has to end the BW one. It can even be more beneficial for both games (BW reaches more of foreign viewers and OGN can adopt GOM system for foreign broadcast/vods, while Gom learns the how to improve the production from OGN, etc).
Really, I don't understand at all. You might feel threaten but at least don't just come in and tell everyone it is a doomsday for BW and hate SC2 for it. It might not even be true. And even you might not like SC2, coming in and flaming the game would only invite other people to flame BW back. Don't we already get tire of BW vs. SC2 drama? The hostility is not on the fact there might be a SC2 proloeague. The hostility is triggered by the mentality that for SC2 to succeed, BW needs to die; that KeSPA teams should switch and make the players play a different game for the sake of "ESPORTS". This mentality is primarily carried by those who do not understand how differently eSports developed in Korea, and overestimate the importance of foreign audiences in the KeSPA model.
And also BW players who like to feel persecuted. There's plenty of that, too.
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On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2.
The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling.
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On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2.
It's a tournament regardless. That's the whole point; you don't need to have PL in the title of everything. LoL is just getting started.
On March 18 2012 14:41 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:34 VManOfMana wrote:On March 18 2012 13:48 Veldril wrote:
Damn, I really don't understand the negativeness from the BW community. Open a SC2 proleague doesn't mean Kespa has to end the BW one. It can even be more beneficial for both games (BW reaches more of foreign viewers and OGN can adopt GOM system for foreign broadcast/vods, while Gom learns the how to improve the production from OGN, etc).
Really, I don't understand at all. You might feel threaten but at least don't just come in and tell everyone it is a doomsday for BW and hate SC2 for it. It might not even be true. And even you might not like SC2, coming in and flaming the game would only invite other people to flame BW back. Don't we already get tire of BW vs. SC2 drama? The hostility is not on the fact there might be a SC2 proloeague. The hostility is triggered by the mentality that for SC2 to succeed, BW needs to die; that KeSPA teams should switch and make the players play a different game for the sake of "ESPORTS". This mentality is primarily carried by those who do not understand how differently eSports developed in Korea, and overestimate the importance of foreign audiences in the KeSPA model. And also BW players who like to feel persecuted. There's plenty of that, too.
Dude, we're so gay and live in caves.
Let's go back to being sherpas together. ;D
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On March 18 2012 14:42 hp.Shell wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2. The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling.
The problem right now is that OGN is broadcasting so many games, their TV schedule is so packed.
Another issue is that for Kespa/OGN to get the rights to broadcast SC2, Blizzard will probably demand a complete switch.
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On March 18 2012 14:45 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 14:42 hp.Shell wrote:On March 18 2012 14:38 Ryo wrote:On March 18 2012 14:32 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 imperator-xy wrote:On March 18 2012 14:29 StarStruck wrote:On March 18 2012 14:27 imperator-xy wrote:
as it is now something HAS TO happen
i guess lol proleague is coming soon as well ... KeSPA already have one running on OGN. Seriously guys. -_- Proleague isnt the same as some random league you know come on you have over 10 000 posts What part of KeSPA sanctioned, on OGN network, LoL are you not computing? The tournament is up and running. The LoL league is "LoL The Champions". It's not Proleague. "Proleague" is a Kespa trademarked name. And so far, they've also made use of it for BW and SF/SF2. The SF2 thing is very true, and makes me view the entire situation differently. This gives me hope that BW can live alongside its sibling. The problem right now is that OGN is broadcasting so many games, their TV schedule is so packed. Another issue is that for Kespa/OGN to get the rights to broadcast SC2, Blizzard will probably demand a complete switch.
My only rebuttal to that is, Blizzard needs KeSPA more than KeSPA need Blizzard.
I get it, but it's not so cut and dry.
Ryo remember how a few years back I said the ball was in KeSPA's court? Yeah, I'm sticking to it. Doesn't mean that cannot happen. ;D
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EPT
