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When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use...
Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D
When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again.
T1 is the only playable thing atm. Ther's no other option in lategame, specially vs Toss.
In TvZ you can still choose between mech or bio, in TvP ther's no way to spare out marauders or marines.. everything else get crushed without doing anything. Toss can pick templar- or roboticbuild, add the leftout lateron and warp in some zealot/stalker for all kinds of harrass. Terra has options in earlygame, but as it goes on, nothings be able to give an extra edge, specially since ghosts were removed from game. Terran T3 is only playable in TvT (maybe some thors in TvZ)..
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On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd  So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again.
It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning.
Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =(
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wow Stephano <3
wrong thread rofl
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On March 19 2012 11:02 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd Energyless Thor and Cruisers, I will be a happy man. HAPPY SO HAPPY.
I'll be happy when battlecruisers counter stalkers. rofl.
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On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them.
Except those who switched to Terran, of course. The manliest race, for real men.
Edit: Wow boy did I messed that quote now :D
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On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again. It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning. Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =(
If only you had a NA account </3
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On March 19 2012 12:29 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again. It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning. Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =( If only you had a NA account </3
I ONLY have an NA account, Blasterion.443 look me up
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On March 19 2012 12:39 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:29 NoctemSC wrote:On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again. It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning. Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =( If only you had a NA account </3 I ONLY have an NA account, Blasterion.443 look me up
Ok dude, I'll add you. We can practice TvT since mine is horrid due to lack of Terrans on ladder.
(see how I just threw in that shameless remark?)
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I think its just so obviously that most Ts float on gas in TvP (sometimes in TvZ) because they are stuck making low teir units throughout the entire game and minerals become more of a bottleneck (especially after the ghost nerf to 200/100). Its weird because to me that T is more of a mineral heavy race and not gas heavy. Most T3 (or end game units for a lack of a better term) are heavy in gas but gets countered so damn easily.
Maybe its just purposely left unfixed because blizzard knows that the unit relationships that they created with WoL is so damn 1D that they have to go back and fix the fundamentals first which would be to get rid of alot of gimmicks (PLEASE BLIZZARD DO NOT PUT IN ULTRA BURROW CHARGE /facepalm).
Quick fixes would be something like nerfing feedback. I think the HT restricts too many unit viability in TvP. Can you imagine if BL/Ultras had energy? well thats what it feels like using BCs and Thors in the TvP matchup. Another example would be a single drop harass being negated by a single HT and a few zealot warp ins. To deal damage, you have to micro and have all your attention unless the P is careless with no defense. Compared to when the P just warps in a few zealots, a moves them into a T expansion and forgets about them where as the T is microing his ass off too defend against such a miniscule harass (unless hes got his entire army there). Adding insult to injury, after spending all that energy, they are turned into archons to wreck more havoc.. And archons generally are good against anything at their current form especially for tanking.
Basically, something along the lines of fixing how good feedback is to make energy based units more viable instead of relying on EMP all the god damn time (In BW you had to morph 2DTs into a dark archon where the unit had no physical damage so it was quite an investment), maybe slightly reducing zealot hp (Id really have them bring back zealot speed upgrade than player control-less charge upgrade).
Most Ts want to have the flexibility of using either Bio or mech in any matchup. Instead most of us are forced to doing one single thing the entire game (im looking at you TvP) because all the given tools are being nerfed to oblivion. The pros are compensating this with even more micro and multitasking but for the others, its becoming tedious and just flat out difficult. I wouldn't mind if some BIO elements were nerfed so that the buffs to the factory based units were compensated.
Its also interesting to point out there T is the only race to become the reactionary race end game. There is never a situation where the opposing T players force P or even Z to switch techs (since they pretty much use up the whole tech unlike the T due to upgrades and time taken to invest into it). This combined with already being handicapped due to severely lacking production capabilities, its like the final nail in the coffin. Oh I didn't make enough vikings, Im going to die now. Oh I made too many vikings, here comes the ultras and so forth.
The science vessel in BW was the backbone of the T late game army in TvZ. It was the only thing that made T stand toe to toe against everything the zerg had and yet it did not break the game. In TvP, you had factory units that could actually go toe to toe with anything the P got late game. Yet in SC2, we go pass a certain mark and the probability of winning falls dramatically unless your really good mechanically and even then it might be difficult.
Im a GM on SEA btw if that really matters.
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On March 19 2012 12:41 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:39 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 12:29 NoctemSC wrote:On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again. It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning. Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =( If only you had a NA account </3 I ONLY have an NA account, Blasterion.443 look me up Ok dude, I'll add you. We can practice TvT since mine is horrid due to lack of Terrans on ladder. (see how I just threw in that shameless remark?)
Remember, other Terrans do not play many more TvTs than you ;D
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On March 19 2012 12:55 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:41 NoctemSC wrote:On March 19 2012 12:39 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 12:29 NoctemSC wrote:On March 19 2012 12:02 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:52 ZenithM wrote:On March 19 2012 11:11 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:10 zezamer wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd So giving terran a viable deathball would make this game better.. Because Terran has to use t1 to fight protoss t3 makes total sense. When you think about it, it's kinda scary. Terran is said to be at a slight disavantage in TvP, even though they can pretty much only use their T1 against P's T3. Just imagine if they had some good T3 to use... Imo it's more a testament to how good bio is in SC2 :D When you start buffing Terran, all Hell will be unleashed and the other races shall never see the light again. It's because we Terran players are real men and can win with whatever. But we just choose to choose to T1 because it's an art. Else it won't be an elegant win. I rather lose than win inelegantly. Those who switched races lost faith in their art to pick up power that has no sense of elegance to them. Such power gained has no meaning. Which is probably why I am still a platinum player =( If only you had a NA account </3 I ONLY have an NA account, Blasterion.443 look me up Ok dude, I'll add you. We can practice TvT since mine is horrid due to lack of Terrans on ladder. (see how I just threw in that shameless remark?) Remember, other Terrans do not play many more TvTs than you ;D
Hahaha that's true 
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On March 19 2012 12:19 CeroFail wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 11:02 Blasterion wrote:On March 19 2012 11:01 AdmrlAwesome wrote:i think this thread is going in the wrong direction. All solutions evolve around changes to Protossplay.. i really think its the terran that need a viable tier3 unit for both TvP and TvZ, since ghosts are gone. But still storms need to be nerf'd Energyless Thor and Cruisers, I will be a happy man. HAPPY SO HAPPY. I'll be happy when battlecruisers counter stalkers. rofl.
Guess you missed the time when bcs, beat every ground unit out there (excepts queens that were able to kite bcs). But thats why their ground attack was nerfed heavily ^^.
as for the question on where all the terrans went even though late and probably already answered. They drowned in zerg and toss tears :x .
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Stephano just said on SOTG that ghosts are terrible now, and when a zerg arm,y has BL/Infestor a terran player cannot engage the zerg army. That makes 2 of the 3 matchups that a terran player has to avoid the opposing race army.
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On March 19 2012 14:12 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano just said on SOTG that ghosts are terrible now, and when a zerg arm,y has BL/Infestor a terran player cannot engage the zerg army. That makes 2 of the 3 matchups that a terran player has to avoid the opposing race army.
Hey atleast we have 100% TvT winrate.
#terranhope
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Northern Ireland27339 Posts
Feel bad for you Terran folk at the minute, think Blizzard have patched too much, too hastily and haven't let trends and new builds settle. I mean Protoss could have learned to deal with 1/1/1 without an immortal range buff that gave us even stronger immortal busts to take only one example.
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On March 19 2012 14:12 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano just said on SOTG that ghosts are terrible now, and when a zerg arm,y has BL/Infestor a terran player cannot engage the zerg army. That makes 2 of the 3 matchups that a terran player has to avoid the opposing race army.
welcome to how zerg played for the first year of the game
metagame shifts, they're a bitch sometimes 
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On March 19 2012 14:12 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano just said on SOTG that ghosts are terrible now, and when a zerg arm,y has BL/Infestor a terran player cannot engage the zerg army. That makes 2 of the 3 matchups that a terran player has to avoid the opposing race army.
Well you can't really engage a siege line so make it 3 out of 3.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On March 19 2012 14:31 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 14:12 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano just said on SOTG that ghosts are terrible now, and when a zerg arm,y has BL/Infestor a terran player cannot engage the zerg army. That makes 2 of the 3 matchups that a terran player has to avoid the opposing race army. Well you can't really engage a siege line so make it 3 out of 3. + Show Spoiler +
We're so bad we can't even win against our own race, now this is just getting silly.
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Quite frankly, I must say this thread has gone on too long.
It has become a cesspool of both great ideas to tweak the current state of the game so that Z/P has to do the same things as Terran to stay afloat in game or lessen the burden of a Terran user (IE no zealot autocasting charge, slower "charge" speed so they can't engage a fully retreating terran army) as well as a giant glass of Terran whine.
I have been responding in here too and I want to play MY race easier and see more Terrans on the non-korean pro scene. I just watched thorzain get roflstomped by HerO 0-3 despite making all the correct moves and beating out the protoss in either tech or economy in every game. Same with his 0-2 to Naniwa in a convincing manner. (Yes they are both Code S and ThorZain isn't Code A yet, I don't care!) The obvious problem in his game is that he "macro'd" with timing attacks that were meant to maim and not kill, which is of no fault to him. He's the spoon Terran and that fits his personality, which works extremely well with starve-out type plays. However, this would work in vT and vZ with no problem, but vP the chrono mechanic/tech units are so powerful to bolster whatever a protoss wants to do. We must admit that TvP is a very different beast than most any other MU we've seen so far at any point in the sc2 metagame. Not only do we need a different build order in TvP but we need a different overall gameplan. TBH vZ and vT have very similar gameplans (mech, marine tank, or bio...which open different to the same end of base management and map control).
It'll take some more time for Terrans to flesh out the weaknesses, but we very obviously can. We will be shown a guiding light once Code S season 2 gets started as it'll be GomTvP this season. (Maybe TvT or PvP depending on how the first rounds go). If we have protoss roflstomping top korean Terran (such as every T dropping round 1 CodeA/S), Blizz almost will certainly step in, in some way, to bolster Terran players or weaken Protoss players in some minor but effective ways so that the vZ matchups aren't affected too much.
In the meantime, this topic should probably come to a halt other than theory crafting how to beat protoss in the mean time. It can be done, my breatheren, even without buffs/nerfs being handed out.
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EPT
