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As i stated, its in no way representative.
But dont you think there should be a bit more balance when there were three more or less equivalent races?
Page 75 opened btw..
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On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down.
You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol...
You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread
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I dont feel like zealots are the problem.
The problem are the lategame splashunits that miss a terran counter.
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On March 18 2012 11:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:18 Aquila- wrote:
Ladder today was fun: 1 Terran, 2 Zergs and about 10 Protoss...I don't even know how to play TvT anymore lol.
Imo Chargelots need a change. They don't require micro while forcing a ton of micro from Terran. Also, they cost only minerals, can be reinforced during a battle and with armor upgrades they simply don't die... Yeah, if only terran had a really good unit that cost only minerals that came really early in the game. Something with a range attack with really high DPS. And maybe an ability that allowed it to move really fast for a short period of time. If only...
So you suggest making mass Marine all game or what? Obviously the Protoss doesn't have only Chargelots but also splash damage. What is this post...
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On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread
Deal, if we get speed vultures and mines back, Hellions can go eat shit. Let me have my 0 supply 125 dmg splash miniature nukes in package of 3 every vulture. Who cares about zealots then. What terran lacks now is exactly that 0 supply detector splash zoning tool of utter annihilation. We get mines back the game will be perfect.
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On March 18 2012 11:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:18 Aquila- wrote:
Ladder today was fun: 1 Terran, 2 Zergs and about 10 Protoss...I don't even know how to play TvT anymore lol.
Imo Chargelots need a change. They don't require micro while forcing a ton of micro from Terran. Also, they cost only minerals, can be reinforced during a battle and with armor upgrades they simply don't die... Yeah, if only terran had a really good unit that cost only minerals that came really early in the game. Something with a range attack with really high DPS. And maybe an ability that allowed it to move really fast for a short period of time. If only...
If only you were terran...
...You wouldn't be saying that.
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On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread
Urrgh...
Chgarge come with a speed boost.
Zealot speed pre charge is 2.25, and 2.75 after.
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On March 18 2012 11:30 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread Urrgh... Chgarge come with a speed boost. Zealot speed pre charge is 2.25, and 2.75 after.
Well BW zealots were.....REALLY REALLY fast .5 is a severe understatement. Give us mines back that's all we need.
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On March 18 2012 11:30 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread Urrgh... Chgarge come with a speed boost. Zealot speed pre charge is 2.25, and 2.75 after.
Yep, they go the same speed as stalker. Clearly with the speed increase alone, they will be able to catch stimmed marines and marauders.
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A mod really needs to close this, its now just become a stupid terran circlejerk without any intelligent discussion.
and I play terran. More GG more skill guys, you'll get a lot more done that way than switching races, or complaining on TL
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On March 18 2012 11:30 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread Urrgh... Chgarge come with a speed boost. Zealot speed pre charge is 2.25, and 2.75 after.
I dunno if you know anything about BW, but going the same speed as a stalker, and having a speed boost are 2 totally different things in retrospect... Obviously I've noticed that they go a bit faster, sweet they can FINALLY keep up... And obviously I was joking, but since you took it upon yourself to see it that everyone knows that already widely known feature I guess I had to reply
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as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable
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On March 18 2012 12:11 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 11:30 Noocta wrote:On March 18 2012 11:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 11:17 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent? You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down. You know what would be way better? If like speedlings, zealots were able to run fast all the time, JUST LIKE BROODWAR! that was the day, now people are bitching about the speed being like a 5 second charge that once its over can be kited ridiclously easy lol... You want that, fine, make it so if I hit C it goes into perm charge than if i hit C again it slows them down, done balanced right? since everyones making ridiclous balance allegations and even more ridiculous complaints over comparing there own play (league) to balance in general I might as well make one myself to add to this ever growing shitpool thread Urrgh... Chgarge come with a speed boost. Zealot speed pre charge is 2.25, and 2.75 after. I dunno if you know anything about BW, but going the same speed as a stalker, and having a speed boost are 2 totally different things in retrospect... Obviously I've noticed that they go a bit faster, sweet they can FINALLY keep up... And obviously I was joking, but since you took it upon yourself to see it that everyone knows that already widely known feature I guess I had to reply
FYI Chargelot Passive = 2.75 Stalker = 2.91 = Slow Reaper =Slow Ling
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On March 18 2012 12:12 darthfoley wrote:
as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable
do you have a good composition? 3 vikings per colo? 1 ghost per archon? if you see chargelot/archon and only 1/2 colo's (the norm nowadays) do you over produce marauders (for instance the match between MC and Puma on Antiga Shipyard showed the weakeness of OVER producing rauders as Day9 was explaining a lot of terrans need to stop doing), did you keep up with upgrades? Is your army a match? Do you have a concave, protoss army is not as mobile as Terrans suc hthat Protoss will have a stronger head to head, but with concave a Terran will win..
Answer those questions and you'll solve your issues, most problems arent even micro related, for instance you should have more trouble with a tech switching Zerg lategame without snipes from Ghosts then you do from protoss players tech switching
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On March 18 2012 12:17 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 12:12 darthfoley wrote:
as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable do you have a good composition? 3 vikings per colo? 1 ghost per archon? if you see chargelot/archon and only 1/2 colo's (the norm nowadays) do you over produce marauders (for instance the match between MC and Puma on Antiga Shipyard showed the weakeness of OVER producing rauders as Day9 was explaining a lot of terrans need to stop doing), did you keep up with upgrades? Is your army a match? Do you have a concave, protoss army is not as mobile as Terrans suc hthat Protoss will have a stronger head to head, but with concave a Terran will win.. Answer those questions and you'll solve your issues, most problems arent even micro related, for instance you should have more trouble with a tech switching Zerg lategame without snipes from Ghosts then you do from protoss players tech switching
That much is true I'll give you that much, I for one though, would fight for more mech viability in TvP, frankly because I just hate bio =/
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On March 18 2012 11:24 AdmrlAwesome wrote:
I dont feel like zealots are the problem.
The problem are the lategame splashunits that miss a terran counter.
zealots are a big problem cause even if we win a giant battle, we can't push since the toss can instantly warp in zealots and destroy any weakened bio. that's why even staying on even bases, it's hard to do it unless you drop. a lot
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On March 18 2012 12:22 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 12:17 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 12:12 darthfoley wrote:
as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable do you have a good composition? 3 vikings per colo? 1 ghost per archon? if you see chargelot/archon and only 1/2 colo's (the norm nowadays) do you over produce marauders (for instance the match between MC and Puma on Antiga Shipyard showed the weakeness of OVER producing rauders as Day9 was explaining a lot of terrans need to stop doing), did you keep up with upgrades? Is your army a match? Do you have a concave, protoss army is not as mobile as Terrans suc hthat Protoss will have a stronger head to head, but with concave a Terran will win.. Answer those questions and you'll solve your issues, most problems arent even micro related, for instance you should have more trouble with a tech switching Zerg lategame without snipes from Ghosts then you do from protoss players tech switching That much is true I'll give you that much, I for one though, would fight for more mech viability in TvP, frankly because I just hate bio =/
As a protoss player, I would have NO issues with vulture/mines being implemented back into SC2, god that'd be nice to see mech orientated play again. Once that stupid "warhound" hits though, i might put sc2 down (even though right now MMR wise im rank 3 high masters 900pts) by then it'd just be stupid to play
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On March 18 2012 12:17 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 12:12 darthfoley wrote:
as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable do you have a good composition? 3 vikings per colo? 1 ghost per archon? if you see chargelot/archon and only 1/2 colo's (the norm nowadays) do you over produce marauders (for instance the match between MC and Puma on Antiga Shipyard showed the weakeness of OVER producing rauders as Day9 was explaining a lot of terrans need to stop doing), did you keep up with upgrades? Is your army a match? Do you have a concave, protoss army is not as mobile as Terrans suc hthat Protoss will have a stronger head to head, but with concave a Terran will win.. Answer those questions and you'll solve your issues, most problems arent even micro related, for instance you should have more trouble with a tech switching Zerg lategame without snipes from Ghosts then you do from protoss players tech switching
Thanks for the tips, i'll try to focus on this next time i play
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On March 18 2012 12:40 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 12:22 Blasterion wrote:On March 18 2012 12:17 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On March 18 2012 12:12 darthfoley wrote:
as a high diamond terran, i find TvP hardest (as incontrol says) when P tech switches and adds chargelots with archons, storm and a few colossi. At my level it's basically unwinnable, not because it's necessarily broken but because i can't control vikings ghosts and my bio ball at once. My micro isn't at that level. I'm guessing many terrans feel my frustration, sure pros can do it, but the average gamer has trouble with it.
Just my two cents, trying to stay rational and reasonable do you have a good composition? 3 vikings per colo? 1 ghost per archon? if you see chargelot/archon and only 1/2 colo's (the norm nowadays) do you over produce marauders (for instance the match between MC and Puma on Antiga Shipyard showed the weakeness of OVER producing rauders as Day9 was explaining a lot of terrans need to stop doing), did you keep up with upgrades? Is your army a match? Do you have a concave, protoss army is not as mobile as Terrans suc hthat Protoss will have a stronger head to head, but with concave a Terran will win.. Answer those questions and you'll solve your issues, most problems arent even micro related, for instance you should have more trouble with a tech switching Zerg lategame without snipes from Ghosts then you do from protoss players tech switching That much is true I'll give you that much, I for one though, would fight for more mech viability in TvP, frankly because I just hate bio =/ As a protoss player, I would have NO issues with vulture/mines being implemented back into SC2, god that'd be nice to see mech orientated play again. Once that stupid "warhound" hits though, i might put sc2 down (even though right now MMR wise im rank 3 high masters 900pts) by then it'd just be stupid to play
Now if Browder would agree with us
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EPT
