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On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building.
I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical.
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On March 18 2012 08:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
this thread is aids, a bunch of plat-diamond players arguing with pros on their thoughts on the game. Naruto is actually trying to respond with such low level players even though they pretty much ignore everything o_O Yeah, it really shows how much merit their arguments hold. Naruto practices with ReaL, who took 4th place at the recent IEM. So clearly he is playing against a high quality protoss He explains exactly where his things most terrans go wrong against late game protoss over and over, but they just discard any advice and continue to whine about how it is impossible for them to win. It makes me wonder why this thread is allowed to exist. If I lose my next 15 games to late game zerg, can I make one about protoss being unable to win against zerg at my skill level?
Did you even read the OP or any of the other perspectives provided by contributors not named Naruto? Naruto has one valid view of the Terran vs Protoss matchup, but his is not the only one. To cherry pick his point of view and and disregard everyone else is disingenuous at best. If you have a legitimate concern about the lack of Protoss or the state of the game, and have good anecdotes and stats, by all means, make a thread.
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On March 18 2012 08:33 riff wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 08:20 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
this thread is aids, a bunch of plat-diamond players arguing with pros on their thoughts on the game. Naruto is actually trying to respond with such low level players even though they pretty much ignore everything o_O Yeah, it really shows how much merit their arguments hold. Naruto practices with ReaL, who took 4th place at the recent IEM. So clearly he is playing against a high quality protoss He explains exactly where his things most terrans go wrong against late game protoss over and over, but they just discard any advice and continue to whine about how it is impossible for them to win. It makes me wonder why this thread is allowed to exist. If I lose my next 15 games to late game zerg, can I make one about protoss being unable to win against zerg at my skill level? Did you even read the OP or any of the other perspectives provided by contributors not named Naruto? Naruto has one valid view of the Terran vs Protoss matchup, but his is not the only one. To cherry pick his point of view and and disregard everyone else is disingenuous at best. If you have a legitimate concern about the lack of Protoss or the state of the game, and have good anecdotes and stats, by all means, make a thread.
yeah Plansix, please just keep this a Terran whine thread and stop having an opinion that agrees with Naruto, because he doesn't matter at all!
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The biggest problem right now is that we don't have a good late game composition to counter anything thrown at us.
+ Show Spoiler +
User was warned for this post
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On March 18 2012 06:42 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 06:34 sushichef wrote:On March 18 2012 06:21 Big J wrote:
90% of the issues for casual players is that they try to play like pros (aggressive with low Tier compositions) but can't make it work, while they could just go Mech and roll most maxed protoss armies, because their opponents are not good enough to do all the multipronged harass and techswitches needed to deal with a meching Terran.
And blizzard did remove the energy bars. The outcome was that Terrans combined Marines (which dealt with most things) with Thors (which dealt with most things; especially with the ones that dealt with marines) and got compositions that were not intended to work with the original unit setup, so they added the energy again. Mech is much harder to play than bio in TvP - you have to open safely, you need to do economy damage, and it takes way way more skill to get the right composition and position your stuff properly than to blink into a main to take out all production or to chrono out immortals. Energy bars were added back after one series of games between MC and Thorzain pretty much. I'd rather they were gone and that thors get a nerf than have a completely useless unit outside of some weird early timing attacks. And Strike Canons were used like that before the MC vs Thorzain game by some players, that game was pretty much just the one that made it famous (foreigner beating GSL champion with Thors)
I keep noticing people like you pushing this random incident, as a contributing factor for nerfing thors. That game was already lost with or without energy bars, MC opened bloody phoenix, lol. Hope you're educated enough to understand that maybe it was 3-4 phoenix dicking around might have contributed a bit more to the loss rather than just thors.
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On March 18 2012 08:39 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 08:33 riff wrote:On March 18 2012 08:20 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
this thread is aids, a bunch of plat-diamond players arguing with pros on their thoughts on the game. Naruto is actually trying to respond with such low level players even though they pretty much ignore everything o_O Yeah, it really shows how much merit their arguments hold. Naruto practices with ReaL, who took 4th place at the recent IEM. So clearly he is playing against a high quality protoss He explains exactly where his things most terrans go wrong against late game protoss over and over, but they just discard any advice and continue to whine about how it is impossible for them to win. It makes me wonder why this thread is allowed to exist. If I lose my next 15 games to late game zerg, can I make one about protoss being unable to win against zerg at my skill level? Did you even read the OP or any of the other perspectives provided by contributors not named Naruto? Naruto has one valid view of the Terran vs Protoss matchup, but his is not the only one. To cherry pick his point of view and and disregard everyone else is disingenuous at best. If you have a legitimate concern about the lack of Protoss or the state of the game, and have good anecdotes and stats, by all means, make a thread. yeah Plansix, please just keep this a Terran whine thread and stop having an opinion that agrees with Naruto, because he doesn't matter at all!
Could not agree more. Naruto is definitely not the one who degrades this thread... he is like the one trying to find possible ways out of the vicious circle of whine we got here...
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On March 18 2012 10:12 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 08:39 Big J wrote:On March 18 2012 08:33 riff wrote:On March 18 2012 08:20 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
this thread is aids, a bunch of plat-diamond players arguing with pros on their thoughts on the game. Naruto is actually trying to respond with such low level players even though they pretty much ignore everything o_O Yeah, it really shows how much merit their arguments hold. Naruto practices with ReaL, who took 4th place at the recent IEM. So clearly he is playing against a high quality protoss He explains exactly where his things most terrans go wrong against late game protoss over and over, but they just discard any advice and continue to whine about how it is impossible for them to win. It makes me wonder why this thread is allowed to exist. If I lose my next 15 games to late game zerg, can I make one about protoss being unable to win against zerg at my skill level? Did you even read the OP or any of the other perspectives provided by contributors not named Naruto? Naruto has one valid view of the Terran vs Protoss matchup, but his is not the only one. To cherry pick his point of view and and disregard everyone else is disingenuous at best. If you have a legitimate concern about the lack of Protoss or the state of the game, and have good anecdotes and stats, by all means, make a thread. yeah Plansix, please just keep this a Terran whine thread and stop having an opinion that agrees with Naruto, because he doesn't matter at all! Show nested quote +Could not agree more. Naruto is definitely not the one who degrades this thread... he is like the one trying to find possible ways out of the vicious circle of whine we got here...
I feel the same, this is getting out of hand, if you guys really want to just whine about gameplay go play protoss and then get high enough to lose to good terrans. Constructive posts are getting flamed down while crappy ones continue to be made.
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A quick glance at the TLPD will show you that Protoss is not OP
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On March 18 2012 08:41 fox77 wrote:The biggest problem right now is that we don't have a good late game composition to counter anything thrown at us. + Show Spoiler +
watch lastshadows vlog. Planetaries/marine/ghost/viking makes a protoss army look much less scary. Let go of the marauder after the midgame (where its needed before you have your critical mass of ghosts) and stop attacking and starve the protoss out instead of trying to kill him and you'll have much more success.
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Terran late game is the weakest by far! All my terran friends uninstalled SC2 'cause toss warp game bad designed mechanic and the ridiculous storm dmg. Another reason (and that's for everyone) is the crap battlenet 0.2
Blizzard tends to show winrates for each race, but this is a bit lie because you play vs your same MMR on the ladder. So it's likely to be a 50% obvious ratio all the time.
What about the tournaments? you should count the number of terrans, protosses and zergs before you can say oh wow another GSL for an imba terranzerg! simple like that.. Anyway right now zerg can beat protoss kinda easy abusing timing attacks
IMO Starcraft 2 needs to much love and balance. More macro and less cheese, please
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On March 18 2012 10:16 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 10:12 Doublemint wrote:On March 18 2012 08:39 Big J wrote:On March 18 2012 08:33 riff wrote:On March 18 2012 08:20 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
this thread is aids, a bunch of plat-diamond players arguing with pros on their thoughts on the game. Naruto is actually trying to respond with such low level players even though they pretty much ignore everything o_O Yeah, it really shows how much merit their arguments hold. Naruto practices with ReaL, who took 4th place at the recent IEM. So clearly he is playing against a high quality protoss He explains exactly where his things most terrans go wrong against late game protoss over and over, but they just discard any advice and continue to whine about how it is impossible for them to win. It makes me wonder why this thread is allowed to exist. If I lose my next 15 games to late game zerg, can I make one about protoss being unable to win against zerg at my skill level? Did you even read the OP or any of the other perspectives provided by contributors not named Naruto? Naruto has one valid view of the Terran vs Protoss matchup, but his is not the only one. To cherry pick his point of view and and disregard everyone else is disingenuous at best. If you have a legitimate concern about the lack of Protoss or the state of the game, and have good anecdotes and stats, by all means, make a thread. yeah Plansix, please just keep this a Terran whine thread and stop having an opinion that agrees with Naruto, because he doesn't matter at all! Could not agree more. Naruto is definitely not the one who degrades this thread... he is like the one trying to find possible ways out of the vicious circle of whine we got here...
I feel the same, this is getting out of hand, if you guys really want to just whine about gameplay go play protoss and then get high enough to lose to good terrans. Constructive posts are getting flamed down while crappy ones continue to be made.
Exactly. Like the one above, which provides no proof to back of their claim and wild claims that their friend "uninstalled SC2 because terran was so broken". I mean, I heard of a terran player threw his computer out a window after blizzard nerfed terran in the last patch.
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Terran lategame has become a joke. No matter if TvZ or TvP, thers no way of handling the big deathballs.
Thanks Blizz for killing Ghosts completly out of the game and making me get overrun by Massultras or stormed to hell in every second game. You can prepare for Blords OR Ultras, Coloss OR Hitemps, but both is inaffordable and unmicroable.
Im playing Terran from the begin and it always felt fair.. when i lost i made obvious mistakes and when i won, i won for a cause. Now im playing 15-20 minutes of a close game and suddenly they got an army i just cant compete in no matter.
Then i watch the replay, wondering if i missed something or made some bigger mistakes but no: i got macro, i got unit control, but they got ridiculous splashdamage.
I worked to platin with terran and i had some hard time. Recently switched to Zerg on a second account cause i was getting tired of the above mentioned. I thought it would also take some time to figure out macros, gamesituations, etc. and though i might get ranked into top silver or maybe somewhere in gold, but it was a instant platinplacement and im having no trouble holding it, yet still not having much of a clou how to play out zerg.
Srsly Blizzard, you killed Terra!
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You ever wonder why a thread like this got 74 pages?
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just looked up my league, and i know its no way representative, but under top 25 there are:
Protoss: 8
Zerg: 12
Terran: 3
Random: 2
i feel this is broken..
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On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical.
Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent?
On March 18 2012 11:12 AdmrlAwesome wrote:
just looked up my league, and i know its no way representative, but under top 25 there are:
Protoss: 8
Zerg: 12
Terran: 3
Random: 2
i feel this is broken..
I dont understand this... you're league? Great my league has 10000 zergs, 1000 terrans and 4 protoss... Protoss must be underpowered.
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On March 18 2012 11:12 AdmrlAwesome wrote:
just looked up my league, and i know its no way repesentative, but under top 25 there are:
Protoss: 8
Zerg: 12
Terran: 3
Random: 2
i feel this is broken..
This is clearly proof that terran is broken in SC2. This should be sent to David Kim right away. They need to push back Diablo 3 and get all hands on deck to correct this issue. There must be 33% split per race in every league, no matter what.
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On March 18 2012 11:14 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 08:28 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2012 06:17 Killcani wrote:On March 18 2012 06:01 zezamer wrote:On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much. Or just remove autocast charge This wouldn't help much. Today many protoss usually waste their charge on the first thing they see and this is something terrans can use to their advantage. I've seen this in many gsl matches where the terran tries bait charge with a single unit/ building. I would be ok with charge not being auto cast if it was a timed speed boost and not an attack animation. It would make zealots require more micro, but would also allow protoss to micro them. Currently, you can't really micro them without losing the charge, which is critical. Imagine indivdually charging zealots... That's not micro, it's retarded... Do you mean like you hit C and they charge ? which is exactly the same to an extent?
You hit the button, the zealots go faster, but you still control them like normal units. Like speed-lings, but it only lasts for a set amount of time and then it has a cool down.
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Ladder today was fun: 1 Terran, 2 Zergs and about 10 Protoss...I don't even know how to play TvT anymore lol.
Imo Chargelots need a change. They don't require micro while forcing a ton of micro from Terran. Also, they cost only minerals, can be reinforced during a battle and with armor upgrades they simply don't die...
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On March 18 2012 11:18 Aquila- wrote:
Ladder today was fun: 1 Terran, 2 Zergs and about 10 Protoss...I don't even know how to play TvT anymore lol.
Imo Chargelots need a change. They don't require micro while forcing a ton of micro from Terran. Also, they cost only minerals, can be reinforced during a battle and with armor upgrades they simply don't die...
Yeah, if only terran had a really good unit that cost only minerals that came really early in the game. Something with a range attack with really high DPS. And maybe an ability that allowed it to move really fast for a short period of time.
If only...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H4Asl.jpg)
