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On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed.
Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said....
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On March 18 2012 03:49 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 23:50 Type|NarutO wrote:
Why are so few Terrans using mass ghosts in the very late game I'm curious. Please explain why you personally don't use them as much? Would you be able to post a replay of you using this strat effectively? Because as it is now, no one really knows what you're on about. It's all nice and good to throw around hypothetical s. But many of us would mass 15-20 ghosts as it was before the nerf and still get pooped on. So...
I will look for one on my main account. I am playing a smurf, so as I don't want to give it away, I won't post a recent replay (recent 1-2 weeks)... But if you want replays of a lot of ghosts + nukes you should get your hands on replays of EmpireHappy.
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On March 18 2012 03:48 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:On March 18 2012 02:54 iamke55 wrote:On March 18 2012 02:40 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! You should probably try it first. There is almost nothing you can do as a Protoss vs mass Ghost and some Vikings, funnily enough the first time I camer across it was a Protoss offracing as T. It's like Zealot/Templar/Colossus ball which can cloak and annihilate air too. You can never, ever attack the Terran as your observers will fall to the vikings immidiately and all the Ghosts will cloak. The only way to win is to stop Terran getting there. It even gets more ridiculous when Terran adds on nukes and replaces their worker supply with BCs that come with +3 or even 3/3 thanks to viking upgrades. Like you, I also see this mostly from Protoss players offracing as Terran. I guess it's not surprising considering how good Protoss players are at playing in the lategame, but still it's funny how I fear Protoss offracing as Terran just as much as main race Terran players. Once there are 20+ ghosts, the EMP radius nerf doesn't even matter and it's just like playing 2 patches ago against 15+ ghosts. As did this.... I still can't believe I'm wasting time continuing to read this thread b/c it tends to make me angry but I just cant stop. Its like staring at the sun. I guess us terrans are just into self-punishment You clearly have no idea how to play a Tvp. Mass ghosts, Bc's, +3 on vikings?. you must be on 5bases. how did you get there? right. you died before the fusion core was done. I agree, BC is the awnser for Tvp late game, but you simply dont have the money or oportunity to do so. Hell, i play 99% macro games and i cant rebember last time i was banking mineral/gas vs protoss. 400mineral bc and 200mineral ghost is just to much, considering you also need MMMV. i love when protoss players tell us to build battlecruiser, as if you could ever really do that and it's not like they can get feedbacked. I find it ridiculous how protoss players suggest things they clearly don't understand. If you don't play terran then it's best to just shut up and talk about your own race, rather than a race you clearly don't understand at all. It's not just that they don't understand the race, it almost seems like they don't understand the matchup as a whole. BCs are utter crap in TvP, there is absolutely nothing about BCs that makes them scarry, once you banked enough money to actually build BCs, the protoss has 20 gates and can just reinforce with whatever units he needs to kill them. This is just herp derp by some people who don't know what they are talking about. And mass nukes, really? Nukes are "nice" but they are not a gamechanger, never ever will a nuke connect with the opponent's army unless they are absolutely awful. And ghosts+nukes+ BCs, where do you get that money from? That's just ridiculous. Some people must seriously think that ghosts are alot cheaper than they actually are and that nukes are for free, which they by the way aren't.
As did this....I cant believe im still reading this thread but i cant stop. like starting into the sun.....
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On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said....
I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should:
a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts
b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts
Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are.
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On March 18 2012 04:01 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:49 SupLilSon wrote:On March 17 2012 23:50 Type|NarutO wrote:
Why are so few Terrans using mass ghosts in the very late game I'm curious. Please explain why you personally don't use them as much? Would you be able to post a replay of you using this strat effectively? Because as it is now, no one really knows what you're on about. It's all nice and good to throw around hypothetical s. But many of us would mass 15-20 ghosts as it was before the nerf and still get pooped on. So... I will look for one on my main account. I am playing a smurf, so as I don't want to give it away, I won't post a recent replay (recent 1-2 weeks)... But if you want replays of a lot of ghosts + nukes you should get your hands on replays of EmpireHappy.
Ok ty. I always see Happy topping EU GM but never see his games ;\
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On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are.
I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus?
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On March 18 2012 03:48 ChaosTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:On March 18 2012 02:54 iamke55 wrote:On March 18 2012 02:40 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! You should probably try it first. There is almost nothing you can do as a Protoss vs mass Ghost and some Vikings, funnily enough the first time I camer across it was a Protoss offracing as T. It's like Zealot/Templar/Colossus ball which can cloak and annihilate air too. You can never, ever attack the Terran as your observers will fall to the vikings immidiately and all the Ghosts will cloak. The only way to win is to stop Terran getting there. It even gets more ridiculous when Terran adds on nukes and replaces their worker supply with BCs that come with +3 or even 3/3 thanks to viking upgrades. Like you, I also see this mostly from Protoss players offracing as Terran. I guess it's not surprising considering how good Protoss players are at playing in the lategame, but still it's funny how I fear Protoss offracing as Terran just as much as main race Terran players. Once there are 20+ ghosts, the EMP radius nerf doesn't even matter and it's just like playing 2 patches ago against 15+ ghosts. You clearly have no idea how to play a Tvp. Mass ghosts, Bc's, +3 on vikings?. you must be on 5bases. how did you get there? right. you died before the fusion core was done. I agree, BC is the awnser for Tvp late game, but you simply dont have the money or oportunity to do so. Hell, i play 99% macro games and i cant rebember last time i was banking mineral/gas vs protoss. 400mineral bc and 200mineral ghost is just to much, considering you also need MMMV. i love when protoss players tell us to build battlecruiser, as if you could ever really do that and it's not like they can get feedbacked. I find it ridiculous how protoss players suggest things they clearly don't understand. If you don't play terran then it's best to just shut up and talk about your own race, rather than a race you clearly don't understand at all. It's not just that they don't understand the race, it almost seems like they don't understand the matchup as a whole. BCs are utter crap in TvP, there is absolutely nothing about BCs that makes them scarry, once you banked enough money to actually build BCs, the protoss has 20 gates and can just reinforce with whatever units he needs to kill them. This is just herp derp by some people who don't know what they are talking about. And mass nukes, really? Nukes are "nice" but they are not a gamechanger, never ever will a nuke connect with the opponent's army unless they are absolutely awful. And ghosts+nukes+ BCs, where do you get that money from? That's just ridiculous. Some people must seriously think that ghosts are alot cheaper than they actually are and that nukes are for free, which they by the way aren't.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread. Lots of Terrans are trying to end the game on 2 or 3 base and if they don't succeed they will find themselves in a tough spot, because you did sacrifice economy for it or basically threw away your units. You can be the better player all day long, if you did waste 7000/3000 and he did defend it with just losing 4000/1000 then you will be in a tough spot and probably lose.
The whole purpose from that late-game ghost style is to build it up slowly while your are "sitting back" but still occupying the Protoss. No one wants you to build 20 ghosts or even 10 at once, but reality is, if you aim for it: you can.
Ghosts are expensive thats true, but most Terrans even though they are saying they play macro games:
a) build too much economy, but don't expand enough
b) overcommit, throw units away
c) don't sacrifice workers late game for orbitals
All Terrans that say they bank 6000+++ / 4000++++ or sorts of it usually just have a too high-scv count. You don't need that many scvs, because you can slowly add orbitals. I don't know if you tried to get this style working, but it sounds like you simply write it off as bullshit.
(I agree on the Battlecruiser fact you mention, too expensive, too slow, feedback-able)
On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus?
You have ghosts, vikings in the critical number 16-18, medivacs 4-8 and supporting marines and marauder. If he adjusts slightly to add more stalkers, your DPS from the left over bio marine/marauder still usually cuts it. Colossi go down very fast against vikings so thats really about control.
Also its easy to slightly adjust for Terran, only just a complete techswitch hurts Terran. But a warpgate switch from zealot heavy to stalker heavy can be dealt with, especially since no stalker will have shields.
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On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus?
then you destroy his army because stalkers cost gas and are made of paper..
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Saying why terrans dont mass ghost is like saying why protoss dont make mass immortals, immortal > stalker no?
You cant compare Happy's mass ghost play with bronze, diamond or any other GM terran because Happy has 5x better micro than any GM terran. If you can win 200 vs 200 mass stalker vs mass marauder it doesnt mean stalkers are good vs marauders it means if your micro is superb its possible.
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On March 18 2012 04:16 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Saying why terrans dont mass ghost is like saying why protoss dont make mass immortals, immortal > stalker no?
You cant compare Happy's mass ghost play with bronze, diamond or any other GM terran because Happy has 5x better micro than any GM terran. If you can win 200 vs 200 mass stalker vs mass marauder it doesnt mean stalkers are good vs marauders it means if your micro is superb its possible.
My micro isn't top notch, yet I can give very good Protoss a hard time if I get to that stage of having mass ghosts. Happy's micro is superb because he works on it and actually puts himself in such situations. Its not like a top korean or even a top foreign Terran couldn't micro like that if he did practice. Obviously some peoples strength is more in macro than in actual micro, but you should get what I'm saying.
I always thought of you as a good player with ghost control when you used them vs Zerg, why not vs Protoss. The micro is different but possible and actually good.
Also... the game should be balanced and balance happens on pro-level. If there are Terrans that can win vs Protoss, I can practice to be as good. If there are bronze or platinum players complaining... really just no.
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Happy's probably the better at microing of all foreigner.
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On March 18 2012 04:24 Type|NarutO wrote:
Also... the game should be balanced and balance happens on pro-level. If there are Terrans that can win vs Protoss, I can practice to be as good. If there are bronze or platinum players complaining... really just no.
I appreciate the tips you've given out in this thread and I'll definitely be trying out mass ghosts late game in TvP. Thanks.
However, you keep repeating "practice and get better", which IS the right mindset for a progamer to have, but isn't particularly useful to more casual players who don't want to practice for hours every day. It IS easier for protoss to win below GM level, and it IS the reason many terrans have been abandoning the game. You keep talking about whether TvP is balanced at the top level or not, which is irrelevant to the subject of this thread, and you keep arguing against the fact which is that lots of plat-masters terrans have stopped playing (and probably a hundred of them posted in this thread).
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On March 18 2012 04:12 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 03:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 18 2012 03:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:On March 18 2012 02:54 iamke55 wrote:On March 18 2012 02:40 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! You should probably try it first. There is almost nothing you can do as a Protoss vs mass Ghost and some Vikings, funnily enough the first time I camer across it was a Protoss offracing as T. It's like Zealot/Templar/Colossus ball which can cloak and annihilate air too. You can never, ever attack the Terran as your observers will fall to the vikings immidiately and all the Ghosts will cloak. The only way to win is to stop Terran getting there. It even gets more ridiculous when Terran adds on nukes and replaces their worker supply with BCs that come with +3 or even 3/3 thanks to viking upgrades. Like you, I also see this mostly from Protoss players offracing as Terran. I guess it's not surprising considering how good Protoss players are at playing in the lategame, but still it's funny how I fear Protoss offracing as Terran just as much as main race Terran players. Once there are 20+ ghosts, the EMP radius nerf doesn't even matter and it's just like playing 2 patches ago against 15+ ghosts. You clearly have no idea how to play a Tvp. Mass ghosts, Bc's, +3 on vikings?. you must be on 5bases. how did you get there? right. you died before the fusion core was done. I agree, BC is the awnser for Tvp late game, but you simply dont have the money or oportunity to do so. Hell, i play 99% macro games and i cant rebember last time i was banking mineral/gas vs protoss. 400mineral bc and 200mineral ghost is just to much, considering you also need MMMV. i love when protoss players tell us to build battlecruiser, as if you could ever really do that and it's not like they can get feedbacked. I find it ridiculous how protoss players suggest things they clearly don't understand. If you don't play terran then it's best to just shut up and talk about your own race, rather than a race you clearly don't understand at all. It's not just that they don't understand the race, it almost seems like they don't understand the matchup as a whole. BCs are utter crap in TvP, there is absolutely nothing about BCs that makes them scarry, once you banked enough money to actually build BCs, the protoss has 20 gates and can just reinforce with whatever units he needs to kill them. This is just herp derp by some people who don't know what they are talking about. And mass nukes, really? Nukes are "nice" but they are not a gamechanger, never ever will a nuke connect with the opponent's army unless they are absolutely awful. And ghosts+nukes+ BCs, where do you get that money from? That's just ridiculous. Some people must seriously think that ghosts are alot cheaper than they actually are and that nukes are for free, which they by the way aren't. As I mentioned earlier in this thread. Lots of Terrans are trying to end the game on 2 or 3 base and if they don't succeed they will find themselves in a tough spot, because you did sacrifice economy for it or basically threw away your units. You can be the better player all day long, if you did waste 7000/3000 and he did defend it with just losing 4000/1000 then you will be in a tough spot and probably lose. The whole purpose from that late-game ghost style is to build it up slowly while your are "sitting back" but still occupying the Protoss. No one wants you to build 20 ghosts or even 10 at once, but reality is, if you aim for it: you can. Ghosts are expensive thats true, but most Terrans even though they are saying they play macro games: a) build too much economy, but don't expand enough b) overcommit, throw units away c) don't sacrifice workers late game for orbitals All Terrans that say they bank 6000+++ / 4000++++ or sorts of it usually just have a too high-scv count. You don't need that many scvs, because you can slowly add orbitals. I don't know if you tried to get this style working, but it sounds like you simply write it off as bullshit. (I agree on the Battlecruiser fact you mention, too expensive, too slow, feedback-able) Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus? You have ghosts, vikings in the critical number 16-18, medivacs 4-8 and supporting marines and marauder. If he adjusts slightly to add more stalkers, your DPS from the left over bio marine/marauder still usually cuts it. Colossi go down very fast against vikings so thats really about control. Also its easy to slightly adjust for Terran, only just a complete techswitch hurts Terran. But a warpgate switch from zealot heavy to stalker heavy can be dealt with, especially since no stalker will have shields.
So what do you suggest? Terrans already know they can sac scv for oc's late game (altough most of them dont go over 2-3 extra oc's).
Farming ghosts? its all good in theory, but the biggest problem is still the colossi (in relation to the rest of the army). On a realistic scenario you dont have time to use the damage emp did (in between zealot charge and one or two colossos attacks and the kiting to deny the surround. Specially if you cut marauders like you said. One or two colossos swipes and your bio ball turns into shit.
I think the point here is to force AA, some serious AA not archons. The only way is a 400/300 "flying rax" that can be feedbacked.
i apologize for the bad english, not my 1st language.
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On March 18 2012 04:43 Tsuki.eu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 18 2012 03:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:On March 18 2012 02:54 iamke55 wrote:On March 18 2012 02:40 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! You should probably try it first. There is almost nothing you can do as a Protoss vs mass Ghost and some Vikings, funnily enough the first time I camer across it was a Protoss offracing as T. It's like Zealot/Templar/Colossus ball which can cloak and annihilate air too. You can never, ever attack the Terran as your observers will fall to the vikings immidiately and all the Ghosts will cloak. The only way to win is to stop Terran getting there. It even gets more ridiculous when Terran adds on nukes and replaces their worker supply with BCs that come with +3 or even 3/3 thanks to viking upgrades. Like you, I also see this mostly from Protoss players offracing as Terran. I guess it's not surprising considering how good Protoss players are at playing in the lategame, but still it's funny how I fear Protoss offracing as Terran just as much as main race Terran players. Once there are 20+ ghosts, the EMP radius nerf doesn't even matter and it's just like playing 2 patches ago against 15+ ghosts. You clearly have no idea how to play a Tvp. Mass ghosts, Bc's, +3 on vikings?. you must be on 5bases. how did you get there? right. you died before the fusion core was done. I agree, BC is the awnser for Tvp late game, but you simply dont have the money or oportunity to do so. Hell, i play 99% macro games and i cant rebember last time i was banking mineral/gas vs protoss. 400mineral bc and 200mineral ghost is just to much, considering you also need MMMV. i love when protoss players tell us to build battlecruiser, as if you could ever really do that and it's not like they can get feedbacked. I find it ridiculous how protoss players suggest things they clearly don't understand. If you don't play terran then it's best to just shut up and talk about your own race, rather than a race you clearly don't understand at all. It's not just that they don't understand the race, it almost seems like they don't understand the matchup as a whole. BCs are utter crap in TvP, there is absolutely nothing about BCs that makes them scarry, once you banked enough money to actually build BCs, the protoss has 20 gates and can just reinforce with whatever units he needs to kill them. This is just herp derp by some people who don't know what they are talking about. And mass nukes, really? Nukes are "nice" but they are not a gamechanger, never ever will a nuke connect with the opponent's army unless they are absolutely awful. And ghosts+nukes+ BCs, where do you get that money from? That's just ridiculous. Some people must seriously think that ghosts are alot cheaper than they actually are and that nukes are for free, which they by the way aren't. As I mentioned earlier in this thread. Lots of Terrans are trying to end the game on 2 or 3 base and if they don't succeed they will find themselves in a tough spot, because you did sacrifice economy for it or basically threw away your units. You can be the better player all day long, if you did waste 7000/3000 and he did defend it with just losing 4000/1000 then you will be in a tough spot and probably lose. The whole purpose from that late-game ghost style is to build it up slowly while your are "sitting back" but still occupying the Protoss. No one wants you to build 20 ghosts or even 10 at once, but reality is, if you aim for it: you can. Ghosts are expensive thats true, but most Terrans even though they are saying they play macro games: a) build too much economy, but don't expand enough b) overcommit, throw units away c) don't sacrifice workers late game for orbitals All Terrans that say they bank 6000+++ / 4000++++ or sorts of it usually just have a too high-scv count. You don't need that many scvs, because you can slowly add orbitals. I don't know if you tried to get this style working, but it sounds like you simply write it off as bullshit. (I agree on the Battlecruiser fact you mention, too expensive, too slow, feedback-able) On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus? You have ghosts, vikings in the critical number 16-18, medivacs 4-8 and supporting marines and marauder. If he adjusts slightly to add more stalkers, your DPS from the left over bio marine/marauder still usually cuts it. Colossi go down very fast against vikings so thats really about control. Also its easy to slightly adjust for Terran, only just a complete techswitch hurts Terran. But a warpgate switch from zealot heavy to stalker heavy can be dealt with, especially since no stalker will have shields. So what do you suggest? Terrans already know they can sac scv for oc's late game (altough most of them dont go over 2-3 extra oc's). Farming ghosts? its all good in theory, but the biggest problem is still the colossi (in relation to the rest of the army). On a realistic scenario you dont have time to use the damage emp did (in between zealot charge and one or two colossos attacks and the kiting to deny the surround. Specially if you cut marauders like you said. One or two colossos swipes and your bio ball turns into shit. I think the point here is to force AA, some serious AA not archons. The only way is a 400/300 "flying rax" that can be feedbacked. i apologize for the bad english, not my 1st language.
Also, terran has to win the battle by a decent margin, to deal with at least with 1 warp in during the battle. This can be denied with mules instead of scvs (increases army number), but thats only late, late game. not mid-late game.
<.< sorry double post.
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All of the Terrans uninstalled because the game is shit and "serious" gamers would rather not rely on only 2 people to balance a game thats unbalanced and will always be unbalanced by the nature of the game. If Blizzard would like a hint on how to fix their game it would be to remove 1A units that do massive amount of damage such as the Collosus, Chargelots (charge being autocast is a joke), and give each race a mid/late game microable splash unit such as siege tanks for terrans, a toss siege unit, and a zerg siege unit while making the T3 units for each race even stronger while making their usage benefit greatly from more micro.
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On March 18 2012 04:42 sushichef wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:24 Type|NarutO wrote:
Also... the game should be balanced and balance happens on pro-level. If there are Terrans that can win vs Protoss, I can practice to be as good. If there are bronze or platinum players complaining... really just no. I appreciate the tips you've given out in this thread and I'll definitely be trying out mass ghosts late game in TvP. Thanks. However, you keep repeating "practice and get better", which IS the right mindset for a progamer to have, but isn't particularly useful to more casual players who don't want to practice for hours every day. It IS easier for protoss to win below GM level, and it IS the reason many terrans have been abandoning the game. You keep talking about whether TvP is balanced at the top level or not, which is irrelevant to the subject of this thread, and you keep arguing against the fact which is that lots of plat-masters terrans have stopped playing (and probably a hundred of them posted in this thread).
I might argue that if Terran receives buffs that make the game easier will completely fuck balance and shift it in Terrans favor. I mean I feel very sorry for lower level players and I know how frustrating TvP can be, yet you cannot buff a race based on the lower - level. Imagine how much EASIER would a buff make Terran for high-level then.. if you were already able to pull victories vs Protoss.
Not saying Protoss cannot win or Terran is imbalanced, just saying you have to be careful what to buff..
On March 18 2012 04:43 Tsuki.eu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:48 ChaosTerran wrote:On March 18 2012 03:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:On March 18 2012 02:54 iamke55 wrote:On March 18 2012 02:40 AnalThermometer wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! You should probably try it first. There is almost nothing you can do as a Protoss vs mass Ghost and some Vikings, funnily enough the first time I camer across it was a Protoss offracing as T. It's like Zealot/Templar/Colossus ball which can cloak and annihilate air too. You can never, ever attack the Terran as your observers will fall to the vikings immidiately and all the Ghosts will cloak. The only way to win is to stop Terran getting there. It even gets more ridiculous when Terran adds on nukes and replaces their worker supply with BCs that come with +3 or even 3/3 thanks to viking upgrades. Like you, I also see this mostly from Protoss players offracing as Terran. I guess it's not surprising considering how good Protoss players are at playing in the lategame, but still it's funny how I fear Protoss offracing as Terran just as much as main race Terran players. Once there are 20+ ghosts, the EMP radius nerf doesn't even matter and it's just like playing 2 patches ago against 15+ ghosts. You clearly have no idea how to play a Tvp. Mass ghosts, Bc's, +3 on vikings?. you must be on 5bases. how did you get there? right. you died before the fusion core was done. I agree, BC is the awnser for Tvp late game, but you simply dont have the money or oportunity to do so. Hell, i play 99% macro games and i cant rebember last time i was banking mineral/gas vs protoss. 400mineral bc and 200mineral ghost is just to much, considering you also need MMMV. i love when protoss players tell us to build battlecruiser, as if you could ever really do that and it's not like they can get feedbacked. I find it ridiculous how protoss players suggest things they clearly don't understand. If you don't play terran then it's best to just shut up and talk about your own race, rather than a race you clearly don't understand at all. It's not just that they don't understand the race, it almost seems like they don't understand the matchup as a whole. BCs are utter crap in TvP, there is absolutely nothing about BCs that makes them scarry, once you banked enough money to actually build BCs, the protoss has 20 gates and can just reinforce with whatever units he needs to kill them. This is just herp derp by some people who don't know what they are talking about. And mass nukes, really? Nukes are "nice" but they are not a gamechanger, never ever will a nuke connect with the opponent's army unless they are absolutely awful. And ghosts+nukes+ BCs, where do you get that money from? That's just ridiculous. Some people must seriously think that ghosts are alot cheaper than they actually are and that nukes are for free, which they by the way aren't. As I mentioned earlier in this thread. Lots of Terrans are trying to end the game on 2 or 3 base and if they don't succeed they will find themselves in a tough spot, because you did sacrifice economy for it or basically threw away your units. You can be the better player all day long, if you did waste 7000/3000 and he did defend it with just losing 4000/1000 then you will be in a tough spot and probably lose. The whole purpose from that late-game ghost style is to build it up slowly while your are "sitting back" but still occupying the Protoss. No one wants you to build 20 ghosts or even 10 at once, but reality is, if you aim for it: you can. Ghosts are expensive thats true, but most Terrans even though they are saying they play macro games: a) build too much economy, but don't expand enough b) overcommit, throw units away c) don't sacrifice workers late game for orbitals All Terrans that say they bank 6000+++ / 4000++++ or sorts of it usually just have a too high-scv count. You don't need that many scvs, because you can slowly add orbitals. I don't know if you tried to get this style working, but it sounds like you simply write it off as bullshit. (I agree on the Battlecruiser fact you mention, too expensive, too slow, feedback-able) On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus? You have ghosts, vikings in the critical number 16-18, medivacs 4-8 and supporting marines and marauder. If he adjusts slightly to add more stalkers, your DPS from the left over bio marine/marauder still usually cuts it. Colossi go down very fast against vikings so thats really about control. Also its easy to slightly adjust for Terran, only just a complete techswitch hurts Terran. But a warpgate switch from zealot heavy to stalker heavy can be dealt with, especially since no stalker will have shields. So what do you suggest? Terrans already know they can sac scv for oc's late game (altough most of them dont go over 2-3 extra oc's). Farming ghosts? its all good in theory, but the biggest problem is still the colossi (in relation to the rest of the army). On a realistic scenario you dont have time to use the damage emp did (in between zealot charge and one or two colossos attacks and the kiting to deny the surround. Specially if you cut marauders like you said. One or two colossos swipes and your bio ball turns into shit. I think the point here is to force AA, some serious AA not archons. The only way is a 400/300 "flying rax" that can be feedbacked. i apologize for the bad english, not my 1st language.
I suggest vikings to pair with your ghosts! 16-18 Is what I usually have with +3 attack. If you scan, spot his observers before the fight, if he has plenty be very careful with the engagement. If he only has one you can seperate your cloaked ghosts and go ahead so they don't suffer AoE when colossi attack your bio.
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Where is the sad marine fanclub team liquid, and why is there not the sad marine graphic everytime you report on the gsl? I'd join and I'd say the tvp mu is as bad or worse than as it was for toss a while back. Why so much blatant racism against terran?
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On March 18 2012 04:11 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 04:04 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 03:54 McPricE wrote:On March 18 2012 02:43 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 02:12 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 18 2012 02:07 willoc wrote:On March 18 2012 01:22 Type|NarutO wrote:
Ghosts have more DPS than marines (1 Ghost vs 1 Marine obviously) and a 3-3 ghost deals nearly as much damage per shot as he would via snipe. EMP is instant damage and nullifies archons and templars and vikings with +3 attack deal with colossi insanely fast.
I play Terran and find this thread amusing. However, I then stumbled on your delicious argument. I am starting to think I will build ghosts instead of marines because I never noticed they did more dps! Hold up... I think I am deducing more awesome strategies from that.. why build Zerglings when Ultralisks do more dps? *facepalm* I've been doing it all wrong! Please explain your point, as I did explain mine. Ressources were never the problem for Terrans in lategame. What level do you play on, because I don't want to sound arrogant but I'm pretty sure I can savely assume I play higher level than you do. Happy goes for mass Ghost as well and beat MaNa yesterday, one of the very best EU PvT players. But you can act all cocky and without any respect as much as you want. I actually try to help and instead of blatantly bashing the match up or crying I'm trying to improve on whatever I can. Maybe I'll try to put it this way: exactly where were you going when comparing ghosts with marines the way you did? You might be a good SC2 player (I am Diamond btw) but that doesn't mean your arguments are at the same level. In fact, I think your logic is massively flawed. Thank you. This REALLY needed to be said.... I did already explain in a PM. Marines and Ghosts serve the same role in Terran vs Protoss lategame. Both are 'nukers' to the opponents tanks (zealots, light) as marauders don't cut it against them. Marines are cheaper but they have lower HP and after using stim, even less. Ghosts deal more DPS to light targets than marines do, so in lategame you should: a) reduce marauder count to get more ghosts b) reduce your marine count to get more ghosts Marauders are cut, because they also take 2 supply and marines are cut, because they are not needed as much as ghosts. My logic isn't flawed, because you don't seem to understand it. I wish ThorZaIN would join here to actually explain how good ghosts are. I think most ppl are aware that ghost do alot of dmg vs light units, what happens if protoss cuts zealots and goes for extra stalkers and colossus?
3-3-3 Stalkers lategame actually don't cut it against 3-3 ghosts. I can tell you that much, we made several tests of unit cost effectiveness with a friend.
The ultimate TvP composition is actually mass vikings, mass ghosts, some medivacs, marines to fill if you don't have enough gas, and tactical nuking to make the P lose ground or engage in a bad spot. Keep only some SCVs for gas mining, and make several macro orbital. You roll over all Protoss has with this 170-180 supply composition.
That's only my opinion, but I rarely see a pro T lose if he can reach this point, korean or european level. I guess the hard part is to survive until then, of course.
Remember, ghosts are one of the most cost/supply efficient unit in the game (the most, probably).
Where is the sad marine fanclub team liquid, and why is there not the sad marine graphic everytime you report on the gsl? I'd join and I'd say the tvp mu is as bad or worse than as it was for toss a while back. Why so much blatant racism against terran?
There is actually more than 5 Terran in Code S. That's why you don't see the sad marine fanclub, don't be stupid. What you probably need is the sad platinum-diamond marine fanclub though.
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On March 18 2012 04:52 Type|NarutO wrote:
I might argue that if Terran receives buffs that make the game easier will completely fuck balance and shift it in Terrans favor. I mean I feel very sorry for lower level players and I know how frustrating TvP can be, yet you cannot buff a race based on the lower - level. Imagine how much EASIER would a buff make Terran for high-level then.. if you were already able to pull victories vs Protoss.
Not saying Protoss cannot win or Terran is imbalanced, just saying you have to be careful what to buff..
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much.
Or remove thors energy bar to let terrans experiment a bit. No effect on TvZ with this change.
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On March 18 2012 05:04 sushichef wrote:
That's true, but I'd wager than 90% of the issue with TvP for casual players is 3-3 zealots + mass warpgates. Protoss just does not die then, whereas you often do because of one mistake.
A simple solution would be to change shields/HP ratio on zealots: it would make chronoed armor upgrades less effective, it would make ghosts stronger, and it wouldn't affect PvZ much.
Or just remove autocast charge
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EPT
