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See here is how it is. I will lay it out for you.
There are the droid armies with there vast masses and amazing ability to produce and A move. This is the Zerg. They secretly serve the Sith and so are evil in the most part.
Then you have the Stormtrooper, far more powerful and deadly with giant war machines and lasers that rake death across the landscape, these have also fallen to the dark side and are evil. (Protoss) They are powerful but a bit stupid.
Then we have the glorious Jedi. With a trusty lightsabre, if able to channel the force strongly enough and with infinite skill, all those clumsy random blaster shots can be deflected and victory can be attained (Terran). Now defeating both the Droid and Clone armies using your amazing skill, yes the very best Jedi can win. But some Jedis are not Korean, they don't possess infinite skill. If you give some nub a light sabre and some other nub a blaster, the guy with the blaster will win.
And this is why there should never of let Jar Jar Binks act in the movies. Wait what where we talking about?
Nevermind.
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On March 17 2012 11:11 DMKraft wrote:
See here is how it is. I will lay it out for you.
There are the droid armies with there vast masses and amazing ability to produce and a move. This is the Zerg. They secretly serve the Sith and so are evil in the most part.
Then you have the Stormtrooper, far more powerful and deadly with giant war machines and lasers that rake death across the landscape, these have also fallen to the dark side and are evil. (Protoss) They are powerful but a bit stupid.
Then we have the glorious Jedi. With a trusty lightsabre, if able to channel the force strongly enough and with infinite skill, all those clumsy random blaster shots can be deflected and victory can be attained (Terran). Now defeating both the Droid and Clone armies using your amazing skill, yes the very best Jedi can win. But some Jedis are not Korean, they don't possess infinite skill. If you give some nub a light sabre and so other nub a blaster, the guy with the blaster will win.
And this is why there should never of let Jar Jar Binks act in the movies. Wait what where we talking about?
Nevermind.
What? I don't even...
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I've noticed very few terrans on ladder in gold league. As a protoss this is horrible, that means more PvP, which makes up over half my games, and the rest PvZ. I think this season, out of ~75 games I've played 10 games or so versus terran. 
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On March 17 2012 11:05 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 10:47 SheaR619 wrote:On March 17 2012 10:31 NoctemSC wrote:On March 17 2012 10:24 zezamer wrote:On March 17 2012 10:03 NoctemSC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
It's widely known that Terran late game is not up to par. Neither is early game. Terran are strongest mid game.
If we look at late game we can compare unit compositions rather easily
Terran
Marines (tier 1)
Marauder (tier 1.5)
Medivac (tier 2)
Viking (tier 2)
Ghost (tier 2)
Protoss
Zealot (tier 1)
stalker (tier 1.5)
High templar (tier 2, 2.5 with storm)
Archon (tier 2.5)
Collosi (tier 3)
Dark templar (tier 2)
Mama ship (tier 3.5)
phoenix/Voidray (tier 2)
Zerg
Zergling (tier 1)
Baneling (tier 1.5)
Mutalisk (tier 2)
Roach (tier 1.5)
Infestors (tier 2.5)
corruptors (tier 2)
Broodlord (tier 3)
Ultralisk (tier 3)
Above are the most common units used in late game in all matchups.
Notice how Terran is the only race that doesn't commonly use T 3 units? This is where I believe the problem is. If I wanted to turtle till t3 and then make one deathpush I'd play protoss. Mid game aggression and using low tech units entire game makes terran fun to play. True but it's also a limiting factor. What happens when your mid game aggression fails? You just keel over and die? How is that "fun"? Terran generally dont use tier 3 units because when they come out, they SUCK simply because you will lack the upgrades. Terran isnt like protoss where you just get a forge and BAM your set for everything if you upgrade those. Thors Why dont we use thor? Simple, feed back and low mobility and low synergy with bio units. You can no longer kite zealot with marauders because if you do, your thor will fall behind and die. They will die even faster because they will usually lack upgrades. This is why they arent used even though they break forcefield. BC Similar to the thors because they lack mobility and low synergy with bio units. Also, when they come out, they will be 0-0-0 while protoss probalby have 2-1-0 and will rip this BC to pieces. Basically, why we dont use these "tier 3" unit you consider. Of the 3 races, terran teir 3 are the least defined because it so hard to tell. If you follow the tech path, then barrack unit will be tier 1, factory will be tier 2 and starport will be all tier 3. Thus medivac is tier 3 units which mean terran has always been using tier 3 units :p. What i am trying to say is that "terran should use tier 3" arguement is stupid. In BW, protoss stick with dragoon and zealots ALL game just like marine marauders and then get arbiter same as medivac for support. See the resemblances? Guess what, terran sit on there butt making tanks and then a-move and win as well. Therefore, saying terran should use tier 3 is a very bad arguement. I know WHY we don't use them. I'm stating that this is the problem in my book. What is the point in have T3 units if they aren't even viable in most engagements?
They would kind of be viable if they didn't have energy for Ht's to feedback them.
I am considering switching to toss, it seems to me that protoss players have gotten better using storm to the point that 4 templars can storm down 2k worth of terran resources way to easily. Because terran is so reliant on stim to escape storm, that is even more damage that your marines and marauders take before they get out of storm. 2 well placed fungals can do a ton of damage to a terran army, but the odds it destroys it are pretty small. 2 well placed storms can destroy a half of a terran army.
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weird that the protoss find PvZ hardest and the zerg find ZvP hardest
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On March 17 2012 13:37 thejamster wrote:
weird that the protoss find PvZ hardest and the zerg find ZvP hardest
Well at least they both find vT to be the easiest match up.
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On March 17 2012 04:00 Snoodles wrote:
As an ambitious learning (top 3-5)silver newbie, here's my perspective from way down in the beginner's league:
TvZ and TvT don't frighten me. I can often win against gold in these matchups. TvP frightens me because I struggle against top 25 and below and rarely beat a top 8 silver protoss. Just yesterday I played 26 games so the horror is fresh on my mind. Here is what I think is the problem for people like me is:
Terran learning curve is extremely tough and multi-tasking intensive. I'm sure I'm not the only guy that "feels" that a protoss can just camp on two bases and deathball. When an upper level player says "Harass, deny expos, if you see collossi make vikings and make some ghosts for storm/ archons" it's easier said than done. The protoss by default makes a nice mix of units that counters everything. They don't have to react as much, it's in their build orders. They only need a couple probes to build everything. Meanwhile as a terran I'm frantically sending SCVs left and right to build supply depots, buildings, queue to go back to mining when they're done, swap buildings and add-ons back and forth, and trying to have some sort of effect with a medivac drop. It's just too much to do. I feel like I picked the wrong race to learn with, and vP just isn't fun anymore. I'm trying to watch more apollos and Max's guide, but I don't think they remember how hard it was to manage 2-3 buildings, 10 production buildings with swappings, medivac drops, the right time to use stim, the right time to cast EMPs, positioning your vikings so they don't get taken down by stalkers, etc.
Meanwhile, it feels like the protoss just sits for a while, sends a replacement observer every time I kill one(could their scouting be any easier???), A-moves and casts storm and a few shields and instantly warps in reinforcements. This is in replays where I have the same APM as my opponent. I'm not whining, I know I have to work harder and get better, but I think it's accurate to say that if I'd picked protoss to play I'd probably be a few ranks higher, if not gold.
If you learnt how to do one build properly against toss (1-1-1), I can guarantee you wouldn't lose a single TvP in silver (unless you hit a higher league player smurfing or completely fuck up). I tried out terran in plat for the first time and went 9-1 against toss using only 1-1-1 (I stopped playing terran because I hated TvT). If you really think protoss is so much easier try it out and find out how much fun playing against mutas in PvZ is.
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On March 17 2012 03:27 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 02:27 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 23:56 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:53 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2. Nice try Show some stats or my statement is just as valid as yours. http://sc2ranks.com/us/1396213/PapaBearPlaced into diamond, won a few games, gonna continue over the next week. Pretty confident I can get masters in a week or two ez. Last time I played Protoss 1v1 was season 3 when I played random. See, unlike you, I actually play all 3 races and then make judgements. It's called being educated. I'd hate to say it... unless you're at LEAST high masters on the NA server, you don't have adequate knowledge or mechanics to base off if a race is easier or not, you have a lot to work on before making this statement, much like how a ton of terrans in this thread are saying they do so well with protoss, then if we ask for stats they will probably be platinum/diamond.
Surely you can't be serious, that's the whole point of the topic, that lower leagues (yes, whats less than masters), have a very tough time playing T, but not P/Z.
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On March 17 2012 13:45 RUS RO DAH!!! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 13:37 thejamster wrote:
weird that the protoss find PvZ hardest and the zerg find ZvP hardest Well at least they both find vT to be the easiest match up.
And teran find TvT the easiest as well!!
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On March 17 2012 14:41 Vandalman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 13:45 RUS RO DAH!!! wrote:On March 17 2012 13:37 thejamster wrote:
weird that the protoss find PvZ hardest and the zerg find ZvP hardest Well at least they both find vT to be the easiest match up. And teran find TvT the easiest as well!!
It's kind of sad when you think about it.
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I previously posted on page 8 a few days ago as a platinum terran. Now I am gold again.
I went on about a four day losing streak (30-40% win rates) and crumbled into gold. Once in gold, started slaughtering people left and right (80-90% win rates).
I think these skill plateaus are another part of the "terran problem". I am, as a terran, required to have superior mechanics to my opponent in order to break even. However, once on equal mechanics, I lose pretty hard. Thus a terran player in platinum gets wrecked by equally skilled opponents, falls back into gold, crushes weaker opponents, rises to platinum...rinse and repeat.
This cycle is really frustrating, and reoccurs instantly once broken. That is to say, the Terran breaks the above plateau and is instantly on a new one. Rose to diamnd, falls to plat, back up, back down. Its disheartening.
Mixed in with the constant nerfs of new strategies, terran really is just painful to stick with. /drink to the masochists 
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MMR doesn't work like that, dude. You'll tank your MMR way before you get demoted, and have generally have to improve it well into the next league level before you get promoted. It's fluid and not at all granular.
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On March 17 2012 14:49 Resistentialism wrote:
MMR doesn't work like that, dude. You'll tank your MMR way before you get demoted, and have generally have to improve it well into the next league level before you get promoted. It's fluid and not at all granular.
If you are responding to me, then I have to disagree. I will add my career page to this post once I get home from work as an example, but thats what it feels like.
my career has been interesring. Started in bronze, went up to gold, crumbled to silver learning to macro, rose back to gold, hit plat, fell into gold again, hit plat, fell into gold again. fought back up to plat, stayed there for some time, then slid back into gold where i am now.
Certainly feels like my previous statement was correct, at least from my experiences.
edit for spelling
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On March 17 2012 14:41 danielrosca wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 03:27 itsjuspeter wrote:On March 17 2012 02:27 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 23:56 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:53 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2. Nice try Show some stats or my statement is just as valid as yours. http://sc2ranks.com/us/1396213/PapaBearPlaced into diamond, won a few games, gonna continue over the next week. Pretty confident I can get masters in a week or two ez. Last time I played Protoss 1v1 was season 3 when I played random. See, unlike you, I actually play all 3 races and then make judgements. It's called being educated. I'd hate to say it... unless you're at LEAST high masters on the NA server, you don't have adequate knowledge or mechanics to base off if a race is easier or not, you have a lot to work on before making this statement, much like how a ton of terrans in this thread are saying they do so well with protoss, then if we ask for stats they will probably be platinum/diamond. Surely you can't be serious, that's the whole point of the topic, that lower leagues (yes, whats less than masters), have a very tough time playing T, but not P/Z.
I'm merely responding to the previous statements of how these certain individuals based off of sub-par competition has the nerve to solidly state that overall protoss is easier. They have yet to face a Terran that really knows how to play, such as how NarutO stated earlier. I have lost games to these Terrans and trust me they don't just sit in their base looking pretty.
Also in regards to you, this was not what the post was about, the OP asked for the reason behind the lack of Terran on the ladder and merely stated he was a Diamond Terran, in NO way did he state this was focused primarily on lower leagues, if ANYTHING the only league he felt needed to be left out was bronze. If you can find and quote something in his post that tells me that he did indeed address ONLY lower leagues I'll take back my words. He gave stats for all leagues and their representation INCLUDING Masters/GM, so I have no idea where you found this thread to just be about lower leagues. I'm merely rebutting people who aren't qualified to make radical statements about a race.
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On March 17 2012 15:41 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 14:41 danielrosca wrote:On March 17 2012 03:27 itsjuspeter wrote:On March 17 2012 02:27 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 23:56 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:53 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2. Nice try Show some stats or my statement is just as valid as yours. http://sc2ranks.com/us/1396213/PapaBearPlaced into diamond, won a few games, gonna continue over the next week. Pretty confident I can get masters in a week or two ez. Last time I played Protoss 1v1 was season 3 when I played random. See, unlike you, I actually play all 3 races and then make judgements. It's called being educated. I'd hate to say it... unless you're at LEAST high masters on the NA server, you don't have adequate knowledge or mechanics to base off if a race is easier or not, you have a lot to work on before making this statement, much like how a ton of terrans in this thread are saying they do so well with protoss, then if we ask for stats they will probably be platinum/diamond. Surely you can't be serious, that's the whole point of the topic, that lower leagues (yes, whats less than masters), have a very tough time playing T, but not P/Z. I'm merely responding to the previous statements of how these certain individuals based off of sub-par competition has the nerve to solidly state that overall protoss is easier. They have yet to face a Terran that really knows how to play, such as how NarutO stated earlier. I have lost games to these Terrans and trust me they don't just sit in their base looking pretty. Also in regards to you, this was not what the post was about, the OP asked for the reason behind the lack of Terran on the ladder and merely stated he was a Diamond Terran, in NO way did he state this was focused primarily on lower leagues, if ANYTHING the only league he felt needed to be left out was bronze. If you can find and quote something in his post that tells me that he did indeed address ONLY lower leagues I'll take back my words. He gave stats for all leagues and their representation INCLUDING Masters/GM, so I have no idea where you found this thread to just be about lower leagues. I'm merely rebutting people who aren't qualified to make radical statements about a race.
To clarify, I was referring to all leagues above silver (Gold-GM) as these are the leagues with a deficit in Terran players.
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On March 17 2012 11:11 DMKraft wrote:
See here is how it is. I will lay it out for you.
There are the droid armies with there vast masses and amazing ability to produce and A move. This is the Zerg. They secretly serve the Sith and so are evil in the most part.
Then you have the Stormtrooper, far more powerful and deadly with giant war machines and lasers that rake death across the landscape, these have also fallen to the dark side and are evil. (Protoss) They are powerful but a bit stupid.
Then we have the glorious Jedi. With a trusty lightsabre, if able to channel the force strongly enough and with infinite skill, all those clumsy random blaster shots can be deflected and victory can be attained (Terran). Now defeating both the Droid and Clone armies using your amazing skill, yes the very best Jedi can win. But some Jedis are not Korean, they don't possess infinite skill. If you give some nub a light sabre and some other nub a blaster, the guy with the blaster will win.
And this is why there should never of let Jar Jar Binks act in the movies. Wait what where we talking about?
Nevermind.
LOL this made my night! Also makes some sense, well thought out post sir. Kudos to you!
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On March 17 2012 15:41 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 14:41 danielrosca wrote:On March 17 2012 03:27 itsjuspeter wrote:On March 17 2012 02:27 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 23:56 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:53 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2. Nice try Show some stats or my statement is just as valid as yours. http://sc2ranks.com/us/1396213/PapaBearPlaced into diamond, won a few games, gonna continue over the next week. Pretty confident I can get masters in a week or two ez. Last time I played Protoss 1v1 was season 3 when I played random. See, unlike you, I actually play all 3 races and then make judgements. It's called being educated. I'd hate to say it... unless you're at LEAST high masters on the NA server, you don't have adequate knowledge or mechanics to base off if a race is easier or not, you have a lot to work on before making this statement, much like how a ton of terrans in this thread are saying they do so well with protoss, then if we ask for stats they will probably be platinum/diamond. Surely you can't be serious, that's the whole point of the topic, that lower leagues (yes, whats less than masters), have a very tough time playing T, but not P/Z. I'm merely responding to the previous statements of how these certain individuals based off of sub-par competition has the nerve to solidly state that overall protoss is easier. They have yet to face a Terran that really knows how to play, such as how NarutO stated earlier. I have lost games to these Terrans and trust me they don't just sit in their base looking pretty. Also in regards to you, this was not what the post was about, the OP asked for the reason behind the lack of Terran on the ladder and merely stated he was a Diamond Terran, in NO way did he state this was focused primarily on lower leagues, if ANYTHING the only league he felt needed to be left out was bronze. If you can find and quote something in his post that tells me that he did indeed address ONLY lower leagues I'll take back my words. He gave stats for all leagues and their representation INCLUDING Masters/GM, so I have no idea where you found this thread to just be about lower leagues. I'm merely rebutting people who aren't qualified to make radical statements about a race.
Often times the OP is low quality while the topic isn't. I won't go sorting out through 20*67 posts to pick relevant paragraphs as to what are the dominant complaints or repost statistics from sc2ranks for you to get a grasp of the general direction of the thread.
To contribute to the topic, one did not have to be top rank or pro, but lower, that's the target. And please note the consensus (to which even lower levels bitching about TvX adhere to) is that the game is balanced for high level play. Problems arise when casuals play T, as opposed to P/Z.
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It's funny that every Terran is complaining right now from Gold to GSL. Choya beating MMA? Please... there is a problem, stop denying it. I'm playing Protoss and Terrans start leaving at the beginning of the game with comments like: "I have better ways to waste my time."
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On March 17 2012 15:41 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 14:41 danielrosca wrote:On March 17 2012 03:27 itsjuspeter wrote:On March 17 2012 02:27 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 23:56 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:53 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2. Nice try Show some stats or my statement is just as valid as yours. http://sc2ranks.com/us/1396213/PapaBearPlaced into diamond, won a few games, gonna continue over the next week. Pretty confident I can get masters in a week or two ez. Last time I played Protoss 1v1 was season 3 when I played random. See, unlike you, I actually play all 3 races and then make judgements. It's called being educated. I'd hate to say it... unless you're at LEAST high masters on the NA server, you don't have adequate knowledge or mechanics to base off if a race is easier or not, you have a lot to work on before making this statement, much like how a ton of terrans in this thread are saying they do so well with protoss, then if we ask for stats they will probably be platinum/diamond. Surely you can't be serious, that's the whole point of the topic, that lower leagues (yes, whats less than masters), have a very tough time playing T, but not P/Z. I'm merely responding to the previous statements of how these certain individuals based off of sub-par competition has the nerve to solidly state that overall protoss is easier. They have yet to face a Terran that really knows how to play, such as how NarutO stated earlier. I have lost games to these Terrans and trust me they don't just sit in their base looking pretty. Also in regards to you, this was not what the post was about, the OP asked for the reason behind the lack of Terran on the ladder and merely stated he was a Diamond Terran, in NO way did he state this was focused primarily on lower leagues, if ANYTHING the only league he felt needed to be left out was bronze. If you can find and quote something in his post that tells me that he did indeed address ONLY lower leagues I'll take back my words. He gave stats for all leagues and their representation INCLUDING Masters/GM, so I have no idea where you found this thread to just be about lower leagues. I'm merely rebutting people who aren't qualified to make radical statements about a race.
Well I'm master league. I played Random from season 1-3 and Terran after that. Nowhere near as good as NarutO but I dont think that means my opinions are invalid. Nor are people in diamond league, or plat league, hell even bronze league. Is the game only supposed to be fun to the top 1% of players? We aren't talking strictly balance here. If you want to get back to the OP, it's about why Terrans are disappearing. Nothing to do with GSL level play. We're talking about Terran in general, from GM to Bronze. You want to know why? It's become more tedious than fun to play ladder. It's an endless cycle of TvP and TvZ. It gets stale real quick.
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I started the game playing terran, but then I switched to zerg because there were these weird flickering lights that would appear whenever I looked at my scv's mining. Did anyone else switch off of terran for this reason by any chance? Just curious.
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EPT
