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On March 16 2012 20:28 IMPrime wrote:
Your point would fly if korean terrans weren't just dying to lategame tvp, and tvp was a problem in the lower leagues and not GSL.
tvp is only balanced in the sense that terrans can do a retarded 1-2 base all-in and maybe win off of that (and is why so many korean terrans have inflated tvp winrates, because they were winning with these gay strategies that protosses have slowly begun to counter), because they sure as hell are not winning once toss reaches 3 bases unless the toss royally screws up.
lol save your breath man. I made the same point 20 some pages ago. Expect people to tell you, "Wat, gtfo, T OP GSL!"
No one actually wants to acknowledge that Korean Terrans avoid late game TvP across the boards and have also voiced their disapproval of TvP balance.
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On March 16 2012 20:28 IMPrime wrote:
tvp is only balanced in the sense that terrans can do a retarded 1-2 base all-in and maybe win off of that (and is why so many korean terrans have inflated tvp winrates, because they were winning with these gay strategies that protosses have slowly begun to counter), because they sure as hell are not winning once toss reaches 3 bases unless the toss royally screws up.
Koreans don't even do that much all ins. They force engagements before 150 protoss supply constantly so protoss can never reach maxed army.
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I think the problem has been hit on pretty well, but I'd like to just sum it up in that if both the T and P are bumbling along at 50 apm, eating cheetos with one hand, never attacking, and simply building up an army, the Toss can just a-move the terran and win in most cases. You could say its the "terran's game to lose" rather than a game the P must win.
Most would also agree that T is the strongest race on the defensive, when set up with bunkers/tanks/turrets whatnot. In TvT and TvZ this works well since you must disrupt economy, but are then yourself quite safe against attacks if you have set your opponent behind. Yet T defenses are laughably ineffective against P, tanks just get rolled over, collosi outrange bunkers, chargelots, storms and forcefields still piecemeal your bio army just as well as anywhere else.
Sure I can micro 3 different drops around in the midgame like a Polt or MMA, but my macro and infrastructure buildup is going to suck and I'll likely get rolled later anyway. Perhaps frustration makes the matchup stand out badly in some Terran's memories: I can't be the only one to have done major damage to a Toss, then promptly still died to a 6gate or collosi timing. I don't necessarily think its imbalanced, but just a pretty poorly made matchup.
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On March 16 2012 20:28 IMPrime wrote:
Your point would fly if korean terrans weren't just dying to lategame tvp, and tvp was a problem in the lower leagues and not GSL.
tvp is only balanced in the sense that terrans can do a retarded 1-2 base all-in and maybe win off of that (and is why so many korean terrans have inflated tvp winrates, because they were winning with these gay strategies that protosses have slowly begun to counter), because they sure as hell are not winning once toss reaches 3 bases unless the toss royally screws up.
Except they do. And we show examples time and time again of Terrans winning in the late game against Protoss, and the Terrans just write them off as the Protoss royally screwing up, when on the other hand, when the Protoss wins late game PvT, the Terran apparently played perfectly. Always. The double standard is ridiculous.
And for the record, if you can win in 15 minutes, why the heck would you want to drag it out to a 40 minute game? Especially when you need to play a series of games? That's just bad strategy; perhaps they want to save stamina. Just because some Terrans choose to do 2-base all-ins doesn't mean they're incapable of winning in the late game. That's just faulty reasoning.
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Terrans have been simply a-moved out of the ladder.
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On March 16 2012 21:33 Gantritor wrote:
Terrans have been simply a-moved out of the ladder.
It was like that in Brood War too until Flash came along 
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On March 16 2012 21:36 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 21:33 Gantritor wrote:
Terrans have been simply a-moved out of the ladder. It was like that in Brood War too until Flash came along
Most of the BW bonjwas were Terran. Or do you really mean ladder and not the best players?
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watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters.
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On March 16 2012 21:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 21:36 BlazeFury01 wrote:On March 16 2012 21:33 Gantritor wrote:
Terrans have been simply a-moved out of the ladder. It was like that in Brood War too until Flash came along Most of the BW bonjwas were Terran. Or do you really mean ladder and not the best players?
Except terran was terrible before the big names showed us, hey this is how you play Terran/Mech.
Well... there IS the deep six.
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On March 16 2012 17:04 Naphal wrote:
the thread was originally about how terrans numbers decrease on ladder, which is a fact.
then we see that the casual terrans have mostly problems with protoss according to the poll, a massive whine TvP and PvT ensues, to the point where a lot of posters devolve to trolls or quite hardheaded biased beings...
imo, the game is quite balanced at the highest level, all the patches were aimed at that, now that is good because i like watching tournaments almost more than playing myself, but that left the casual playerbase a bit behind.
blizzard knows terran needs alternatives, the new units scream MECH all over the place, but until that happens, i feel they will not lift a finger, because any actual buff to existing units would result in GomTvT again.
this thread of course is pretty irrelevant, but seeing the responses of some people i cannot help but laugh, any realistic patch or expansion will not make a terran player magically 1 or 2 leagues better, but when the day comes that zerg and protoss actually have to fear some terran lategame armycomposition instead of just dealing with greater numbers and upgrades, that will make the game much more enjoyable for me.
in the end, my 80% TvZ winrate is just as imbalanced as my 20% in TvP, but that just shows how warped the platinum / diamond leagues in europe are, it seems pretty clearly that T > Z > P > T in my case, and from what i have read, many posters here on TL have the same experience.
i will improve, but i will not train my ass off, i play about 10 games a week at most, so an ambitious player will roll me over on his way from the bottom to the top, but have i ever played such a guy? according to the opponents profiles no, casuals, not many games played, favor one race, maybe play others in teamgames.
now i will not wait for a "metagame miracle" those do not happen anymore, neither did they really in the past, more like a blizzard patch shifted the attention, like the "USE THAT GODDAMN WARPPRISM" patch, and lastly, ravens will not make a miracle appearance saving terrans from their troubles, neither will battlecruisers.
haha
probably the most enjoyable and honest post I've read in a long time.
<3
I don't play SCII as much anymore either...
will start again season 7 or patch 1.5 for sure.
Honestly all these patches are quite enjoyable for the casual fans...
terrible for tournaments, though...
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On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters.
But haven't you heard? The Protoss players in this thread have already pointed out multiple games in the recent past where Terrans have excelled in the late game. Oh wait..
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On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters.
While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran.
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On March 16 2012 22:25 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. But haven't you heard? The Protoss players in this thread have already pointed out multiple games in the recent past where Terrans have excelled in the late game. Oh wait..
We have. I even gave you an example the other day (Alicia vs. theStC which just happened? check back a few pages), and you completely dodged it. I just posted it again.
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On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran.
This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him.
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On March 16 2012 22:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:25 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. But haven't you heard? The Protoss players in this thread have already pointed out multiple games in the recent past where Terrans have excelled in the late game. Oh wait.. We have. I even gave you an example the other day (Alicia vs. theStC which just happened? check back a few pages), and you completely dodged it. I just posted it again.
No one dodged it. It just proves our point that Protoss can't lose unless they literally make the biggest mistake possible (ie. Attacking a Terran opponent through a tiny choke with a chargelot/archon composition) but you keep feebly trying to twist it to show Terran can win on 3 base. Simply because it is the ONLY game where a Terran took a third.
But w/e I don't care to argue anymore. I've already started playing toss again on a smurph. It's just too easy.
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On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him.
You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there.
Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game.
I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here.
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On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here.
Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3.
Only lost to another Protoss, go figure.
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On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure.
And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2.
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On March 16 2012 22:49 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:46 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:31 SupLilSon wrote:On March 16 2012 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 16 2012 22:14 aXel92 wrote:
watching gsl up and down matches is just ridiculous...i watched every single tvp played in the current up and down matches and all terrans went for an allin. so you shouldn't argue that korean terrans usually win in a straight up game against protoss. they try to avoid it when it really matters. While I'd like to appeal to the point I made earlier about how if a player can win in the early/ mid game, there's no reason why he's required to play a long game... it's also simply false that a Terran rushed every game. Take one of Alicia's PvT up and down games, for example. (I think it was against theStC in the tiebreaker, although I may be mistaken... but I know it was one where Alicia lost.) Alicia put on early aggression and was up by 20 workers. theStC, who was ahead in army but behind in the worker count, played passively and decided to push it into a longer game. After three bases each, they eventually engaged when they both had 200/200 deathballs. theStC absolutely demolished Alicia's army, despite being significantly behind earlier on. And that's because he made sure he engaged in a more favorable position. If Alicia had engaged better than theStC and caught him off guard, than Alicia would have won the final battle and taken the game. But instead, the Terran rolled the Protoss with the late game unit compositions. And that's not an isolated incident; it comes down to positioning and posturing of units, getting your spells off (e.g. EMP vs. storm), and getting the ideal unit compositions. Terran can hold their own in the late game against Protoss. Granted, the final battles generally end up completely one-sided- one way or the other- but sometimes the Protoss is the victor, and sometimes it's the Terran. This is the only game you've mentioned where a Terran player took a game off a Protoss player past 2 bases. As mentioned earlier, Alicia fought in literally the worst position possible on that map. Furthermore, ForGG was aggressive right off the bat and set himself up with tons of aggression, dictating the pace of the game, and clearly being the faster and mechanically superior player. This was plain as day. If Alicia had engaged anywhere else it would have been a roflstomp for him. You declaring that hypothetical situation doesn't make it true. Furthermore, it's up to the players to engage favorably. There's a reason why maps have different terrain and features (funnels, open areas, chokes, etc.). You should know which unit compositions work better in which areas, and you force an engagement there. Note that Protoss players don't whine that Protoss can't win late game *because MC only wins with 2-base all-ins*. That doesn't mean that he (or other Protosses) are incapable of winning in the late game. It just means that MC *can* win with his style, and so he has no reason to wait for a longer game. Terrans and Protosses have both won long games and short games, and it's very tiring when you read players (even Terrans) posting counterexamples to Terran whining and seeing it ignored. When Terran loses, they still played perfectly; when Protoss loses, it was because they play terribly and Protoss is still overpowered. Look at the statistics- Terran has historically raped both Protoss and Zerg. Now it's finally becoming balanced overall, and there are going to be slight fluctuations within the stages of the game. It sucks, but that's the way it is. That being said, it's never impossible or even extremely improbable to win as any race during any stage of the game. I can't even believe this whining thread has been open for this long. I'm going to try my best not to get sucked back in here again. It's a black hole of letting off steam and complaining, but there's no open discussion or critical thinking going on here. Its ok bro. I agree with you. Protoss too hard. That's why im 6-1 now with Toss and haven't played 1v1 with Toss since the end of Season 3. Lost to another Protoss, go figure. And i'm 8-1 with terran even though i've not played them since the end of season 2.
Nice try
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On March 16 2012 16:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 15:38 XXXSmOke wrote:On March 16 2012 14:18 Hantak wrote:
Though i love sc2 with my heart, i havent played it since about 2 months.
Most of my friends got too frustrated with the game and have quit, and ladder is more stressing than fun most of the times. That, along with me playing Terran beign "forced" to play these "kill the toss player before 20 mins" or "kill the Z before he gets ultra tech and greater spire" had utterly made me step off from the game.
I dont expect to win all my games, i know theres always room for improvement, but when the game you play stops beign fun you realize something went wrong along the way. I think i just wanted to get better too hard, curse me and my beloved Terran. maybe someday ill get back on ladder but right now the game is not fun to play as Terran anymore (for me) i got TvP'ed till i had enough of it. Same thing happened to me, quit for a few months because the game is simply not fun as Terran IMO. Having your only viable option be to kill the Z or P before 20 minutes gets really old really fast. ofc we make mistakes and our oppenants do, but when it comes down to it you have a thread like this where 1000's of Terrans are all saying the same damn thing about TvP. 10-20% winrates are a quick way to lose interest in a game. Nerf early game ... Buff late game. You may say vox populi, vox dei all you want, but I'm an atheist. It's completely possible that many terran players are dissatisfied with the state of the matchups while the game itself is just fine.
Well yea the actual state of the game(talking pro lvl meta game) is fine. But are you pro? Am I?
Somehow your missing the main problem here. We're all dissatisfied with the match ups because the current meta game forces us to end the game by 20 minutes because late game is an extreme skill gap compared to the other races. This is a wierd imbalance because the mechanics are instead of the units
Don't act like you never lost a late game tvp to a proper that was OBVIOUSLY lower skill than you due to him building chargelot archon collis.
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EPT
