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On March 11 2012 11:42 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:34 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 11:32 Gheed wrote:
Around the mid levels of skill (check the SC2Ranks stats for gold through diamond) I think Terran is the most difficult race to play. It's harder to split marines than it is to a-move banelings, for example. Stutter stepping a marauder/marine force certainly takes more APM than having chargelots automatically pursue them.
Once players get the skills to macro and micro at the same time, Terran win rates, and thus their representation, pick back up.
I don't think it's necessarily imbalanced, just that it's hard to make the game equally difficult for all races at all skill levels.
I'm not really stating I think Terran is too weak per say overall. I added the sc2ranks link and it clearly shows Terran is the lowest played race in anything Gold through GM now. I'm concerned on the ratio shifts, I certainly do not want to play 60% of my games as TvPs but that's just me. On a side note, I love your blogs. I would say to look at KR master league and GM league for the next step in skill progression after NA/EU GM league. In Korea, terrans are a bit overrepresented in master and about even in GM. At the end of the day, people aren't playing terran because they don't want to play terran. Since there were tons of terran in 2010, and far less now, you could say either A: people got bored of playing terran and switched or B: they switched to a race they feel is better.
The link provided along with the stats I typed out by hand (for those who do not wish to click the link) Account for all Regions combined. So factoring in the slight raise in Terrans on KR server it still doesn't make a significant enough bump to put Terran even close to even percentage wise.
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Could be another explanation. A lot of newer players started out with Terran because they were accustomed to it from the campaign. If I remember correctly, it was by far the most played race for months after the game released. It is possible that these players were new to Starcraft and possibly also new to the RTS genre so they had an overall lower retention rate than the relatively more veteran or hardcore players who started with Protoss or Zerg. What we'd need to look at is how the numbers of players of each race has declined since release.
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once this thread reaches like 30 pages, maybe we'll have a bigger sample size
as a random player, i have to say
i like playing zvt and tvz
i hate playing zvp, its almost unwinnable.
pvz and pvt are fun to play.
absolutely hate tvp
also hate all mirrors
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lol ZvP and PvZ both are bad matchups apparently XD
maybe its because in a lot of ways terran is more boring to play... I mean as zerg you get to move all over the map, take map control, spread creep, feel in charge of a lot of units. As terran you only get to roam free and take map control if you are winning, not on a usual basis. and protoss is shiny so thats cool
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On March 11 2012 11:46 BlackGosu wrote:
once this thread reaches like 30 pages, maybe we'll have a bigger sample size
as a random player, i have to say
i like playing zvt and tvz
i hate playing zvp, its almost unwinnable.
pvz and pvt are fun to play.
absolutely hate tvp
also hate all mirrors
I'd say the 521,882 Sample size provided is large enough.
I honestly don't mind TvT because it's less about luck and build order wins.
The long games can certainly be taxing though.
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gsl
in all seriousness, i think many terrans were actually not that good but merely got into high ranks through imbalanced tactics such as 111 and marine scv allins, now that peopel have figured it out the cheeses, those terrans are finding it hard to adapt to the lategame requirements and such. i say this not because i hate terran and think they're imbalanced, but because a few months ago, most of the terrans i hit did some sort of gay 111 or timing.
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On March 11 2012 11:44 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:42 Gheed wrote:On March 11 2012 11:34 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 11:32 Gheed wrote:
Around the mid levels of skill (check the SC2Ranks stats for gold through diamond) I think Terran is the most difficult race to play. It's harder to split marines than it is to a-move banelings, for example. Stutter stepping a marauder/marine force certainly takes more APM than having chargelots automatically pursue them.
Once players get the skills to macro and micro at the same time, Terran win rates, and thus their representation, pick back up.
I don't think it's necessarily imbalanced, just that it's hard to make the game equally difficult for all races at all skill levels.
I'm not really stating I think Terran is too weak per say overall. I added the sc2ranks link and it clearly shows Terran is the lowest played race in anything Gold through GM now. I'm concerned on the ratio shifts, I certainly do not want to play 60% of my games as TvPs but that's just me. On a side note, I love your blogs. I would say to look at KR master league and GM league for the next step in skill progression after NA/EU GM league. In Korea, terrans are a bit overrepresented in master and about even in GM. At the end of the day, people aren't playing terran because they don't want to play terran. Since there were tons of terran in 2010, and far less now, you could say either A: people got bored of playing terran and switched or B: they switched to a race they feel is better. The link provided along with the stats I typed out by hand (for those who do not wish to click the link) Account for all Regions combined. So factoring in the slight raise in Terrans on KR server it still doesn't make a significant enough bump to put Terran even close to even percentage wise.
I'm arguing that EU/NA/SEA master and GM players are inferior to KR master and GM players. So including them in the statistic doesn't add to the meaning, it takes away from it. Not every master leaguer is created equal. My point is that at the extremely low end (bronze NA) there are a lot of terrans. As skill picks up, they drop off. Then, as skill reaches a peak (KR master) terrans are well represented.
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its funny how violent the downswing of terran players has been since release when you consider terran was easily the most popular by a solid 5%+
Terran doesn't offer much to macro styled players who aren't at least mid-masters compared to P/Z counterparts. Micro is also more stressed as the bioball provides the most amazing dps whilst being quite vulnerable.
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I quit playing 1v1 ladder. Blizzard's constant nerfs to everything that isn't a marine or marauder finally got too much and I walked away. I was tired of tanks (and my other factory units) being useless in TvP, annoyed because of how much better bio TvT came after the blue flame nerf, and the ghost nerf was the final straw that made Blizzard's incompetence too much for me to take. Absolutely none of the patches have made SC2 a better game to play from a Terran perspective. We keep getting forced into more and more specific strategies and it's at the point where TvT is the only matchup left that allows for any sort of stylistic freedom in a standard game. TvP will forever be bio as long as colossus exists and tank damage sucks and TvZ is moving quickly toward mech being mandatory to stand a chance in the late game. Meanwhile, Protoss and Zerg continue to be able to utilize almost their whole tech tree (sans carriers) in every matchup but their own mirrors, which have remained pretty weird since day 1.
On March 11 2012 11:48 mR.bONG789 wrote:
in all seriousness, i think many terrans were actually not that good but merely got into high ranks through imbalanced tactics such as 111 and marine scv allins, now that peopel have figured it out the cheeses, those terrans are finding it hard to adapt to the lategame requirements and such. i say this not because i hate terran and think they're imbalanced, but because a few months ago, most of the terrans i hit did some sort of gay 111 or timing.
You were getting hit with 1/1/1 all the time because a lot of us are fed up with TvP and how bad the matchup is on every level. When I used to play and I hit a Protoss on ladder, I'd flip my coin with a cheese, hope it worked, and move on in the hopes that I'd get a Terran or Zerg next so I could play a game that wasn't retarded by default.
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On March 11 2012 11:47 NoctemSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:46 BlackGosu wrote:
once this thread reaches like 30 pages, maybe we'll have a bigger sample size
as a random player, i have to say
i like playing zvt and tvz
i hate playing zvp, its almost unwinnable.
pvz and pvt are fun to play.
absolutely hate tvp
also hate all mirrors I'd say the 521,882 Sample size provided is large enough. I honestly don't mind TvT because it's less about luck and build order wins. The long games can certainly be taxing though.
what about those proxy rax, factories, starports?
although i agree, tvt is less cheesy than zvz and pvp.
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Yup... In the last few days, I have played 3 terrans in about 25 games... It sucks, I love the matchup. Getting sick of PvPs :/
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I do play Terran. And out of like 60 games this season, I have played like 40% TvZ 40% TvP and 20% TvT (Note:these are pretty rough the point to take away is i haven't played TvT much) and I think on sc2 ranks it said more people play protoss than anyone. Maybe a lot of people are switching races. Reason for race switching are either A.Boredom B. Icon hunting(game has been out awhile so a lot of people have there 1000 win icons) C. trying to find a way to get to masters rank, and by race swaping they feel it is easier?
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On March 11 2012 11:48 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:44 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 11:42 Gheed wrote:On March 11 2012 11:34 NoctemSC wrote:On March 11 2012 11:32 Gheed wrote:
Around the mid levels of skill (check the SC2Ranks stats for gold through diamond) I think Terran is the most difficult race to play. It's harder to split marines than it is to a-move banelings, for example. Stutter stepping a marauder/marine force certainly takes more APM than having chargelots automatically pursue them.
Once players get the skills to macro and micro at the same time, Terran win rates, and thus their representation, pick back up.
I don't think it's necessarily imbalanced, just that it's hard to make the game equally difficult for all races at all skill levels.
I'm not really stating I think Terran is too weak per say overall. I added the sc2ranks link and it clearly shows Terran is the lowest played race in anything Gold through GM now. I'm concerned on the ratio shifts, I certainly do not want to play 60% of my games as TvPs but that's just me. On a side note, I love your blogs. I would say to look at KR master league and GM league for the next step in skill progression after NA/EU GM league. In Korea, terrans are a bit overrepresented in master and about even in GM. At the end of the day, people aren't playing terran because they don't want to play terran. Since there were tons of terran in 2010, and far less now, you could say either A: people got bored of playing terran and switched or B: they switched to a race they feel is better. The link provided along with the stats I typed out by hand (for those who do not wish to click the link) Account for all Regions combined. So factoring in the slight raise in Terrans on KR server it still doesn't make a significant enough bump to put Terran even close to even percentage wise. I'm arguing that EU/NA/SEA master and GM players are inferior to KR master and GM players. So including them in the statistic doesn't add to the meaning, it takes away from it. Not every master leaguer is created equal. My point is that at the extremely low end (bronze NA) there are a lot of terrans. As skill picks up, they drop off. Then, as skill reaches a peak (KR master) terrans are well represented.
This may be true, however I'm simply getting to the point that Terrans overall are the least played of the three races, can we agree upon this?
My main Statement is that I feel Terran is weakest, more so that I enjoy playing more Than TvP and the occasional TvZ.
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Professional Protoss and Zergs have developed better builds and stronger styles that are obvious and flashy enough for regular players to copy. Terrans for the most part have been changing the way they play in subtle fashion, so a lot of players have become stagnant and clueless.
Plus, late game is becoming more and more obnoxious.
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Wasn't there a thread just like this a month ago? :\ I think it was concluded that the combined weight of all the nerfs and metagame shifts just turned a lot of terran players off of 1v1.
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Ya at the diamond level I only play zergs T.T
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Switched back to Protoss because playing TvP is stupidly hard.
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They lost their talent 
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On March 11 2012 11:57 greggy wrote:They lost their talent
A whole population of players simultaneously lose their talent at once?
Interesting but no dice.
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EPT
