Where did all of the terrans go? - Page 200

On April 06 2012 01:03 dani` wrote:
Even though this is mainly low level Terrans crying, I just want to share some actual statistics (TLPD winrates March, just out):

International + Korea (TvP: 54.9% in favor of Terran)


Korea Only (TvP: 61.2% in favor of Terran)


Now I realize these 54.9% and 61.2% numbers are going to be dismissed incredibly quickly with the usual argument 'Korean Terrans just have sick control', but I wanted to put the stats out here nevertheless

On April 06 2012 01:44 Blasterion wrote:

Its always been mostly about TvP though

On April 06 2012 01:17 OmegaKnetus wrote:



Take a look at the tvz graphs...

On April 06 2012 01:47 SeventhPride wrote:

:/ This thread was created after the snipe nerf though, but I don't mind. Its entertaining at least, ahhaha, watching protoss and terran having a go at each other. I wonder if we have all forgotten we are actually humans. (And no, I am not saying we are all terrans.)

On April 06 2012 01:44 Plansix wrote:


A lot of us understand having a fustrating match up, but the issues people have in this thread are nothing new to SC2. PvZ has similar issues. Stephano developed a style of play where he maxes on roaches in 12 minutes and SMASHES a protoss third base, which is followed by a loss. Maxes on a single unit that is slightly upgraded to roll over a protoss attempting to expand. Currently there are a lot of people talking about how to stop it. So many, it has created a 52 page thread as shown below:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320894

I am not going to say that a zerg that can pull off maxing in 12 minutes is not talented, because that is a feat. But stopping 140 supply of roaches(the zerg gets 60 drones) at the 12 minute mark for a protoss is ROUGH. I could say it is harder than controlling the 200 roach blob, or a least is seems that way. . But I am not telling all zergs they are scrubs or saying that protoss is so much harder than zerg. That is just not true and I am not going gripe about how we are not on equal footing. I watch this thread to see if a solution is found, because I cannot beat that build with my current skills.

Protoss have provided pointers to those who posted replays. Those pointers and tips have been responded to with more griping, balance whining and grief.

On April 06 2012 01:50 Noocta wrote:


I strictly believe this thread is still here because it prevent the whiners to go somewhere else.
Like some kind of catalyst you know.

On April 06 2012 01:50 SeventhPride wrote:

The funny thing is, players can actually prevent the stephano build by not going forge/nexus first. But of course, they will then state zergs have it easier if they do that. Kinda retarded how they just want a build that automatically give them an advantage

On April 06 2012 01:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


It's pretty much established that FFE is the current best opening in PvZ >.> Going gateway first really isn't popular and you have to have some really ridiculous trick up your sleeve. After your FFE, you can get your econ and upgrades going and try a whole bunch of different harrassment options. If you go gateway first in hopes that you can shut down a mass roach opening, the Zerg doesn't even have to go mass roaches (they obviously have map control for the first 5 minutes of the game with their first few lings, so they have the watchtowers and know when your expansion is going down... plus they can scout your base with an overlord).

On April 05 2012 13:40 sirpsychosexy wrote:
The reason Terrans have disappeared is it is harder to play at the low to mid levels than any other race. It is that simple. As a terran your success in the big battles, a lot of times depends on your micro. Average players aren't super good at microing, so as a result the race that has to micro the most to win a batlle, will probably win less often.

It really is that unbelivably simple, lets look at the things terran has to do versus toss to do okay in a mid-late game battle: First off terran has to make sure they have the right composition to engage the army. You have to get the proper amount of vikings and ghosts that is appropriate to their collossus, and high temp count. You don't do this, you already lost the fight. Once you engage (or before if you can), emping or sniping the High temps is a huge priority. In the event that you cannot get all the high temps, you then have to dodge storms, not only your bio, but the vikings too. In addition you should be focus firing the vikings to kill collosus 1 at a time, having them all hit different one's won't be very beneficial. Meanwhile make sure you are kiting the charglots and not letting them get a good surround, this alone is daunting for someone in the lower-mid levels. And still while kiting the zealots, try to maintain a spread from the collosses splash if they don't die immediately from the vikings.

For protoss they do have to do a few things. You should probably try to find an advantageous area to engage in (same goes for terran), and then while you are attacking throw storms on top of the army, and try not to clump up your high temps too much for the emps. And that's about it.

If the terran gets too clumped up or the zealots get in a good position, you will probably lose the fight. If you take 1 bad storm, you will probably lose the fight. It really is this simple. Asking a platinum or dimaond level player to do all these things and not take a couple bad storms is too much. Storm just absolutely decimates your army, just fucking crushes it. No player on this level will consistently be able to emp every high templar before each fight.

The ease of the things toss has to do and the difficulty of the things terran has to do is staggering. Placing a storm on the army is incredibly easy. Dodging storms, kiting zealots, and emping the temps is not easy. Even pros take huge storm damage all the time. A fricken platnium-diamond player is just going to eat them alive half the time. The consequences of a toss getting all the high temps emp'd is nowhere near the consequence of a terran taking bad storms, if you get emp'd you still have an okay chance.

Now if the battle is over and you arent completely dead, the toss can probably warp in 30-40 supply almost instantly so get ready for that. To best deal with this, you have to make sure you start producing your units during the battle as you are losing units, and hope they come out in time. Another drawback for lower level terran players is having to constantly be making production using many of your scv's and also having to add techlabs/reactors and what not. This isn't so bad for gold players and beyond, it really isn't very difficult, but for the lowest of players, it is alot more to ask then simply throwing down 10 gateways with a probe.

TvZ isn't quite as bad as TvP, I personally think it is almost balanced, but I will write a few things that make it difficult for your average terran. As a terran you do have to be able to split against banelings and what not, which can be a big turnoff for players looking into terran. And as a similair situation with storm you have to emp or snipe the infestors and spread from the fungals. And once the broodlords are out, your only real option is mass vikings, you can try marines, but again it is alot to ask for a platinum or diamond player to get under the broodlords without getting owned by fungals. And if you do get the vikings out and he doesnt crush you because you weren't prepared, the zerg can tech switch to ultras and make half your army useless. I think the matchup was well balanced before the ghost nerf.

And in both these matchups you again have the scenario where zerg and toss can resupply super fast and tech switch very fast as well, while terran cannot. This alone drives away people who want to play terran.

These are my feelings on why people are driven away from terran. The top tier players have great success with Terran because they can do all these things, they can split, emp, kite, spread, keep up with production, etc, the skill cap is higher, the best most skilled player, would probably do best with terran, but for players with low apm who are just average, races like protoss would be so much more appealing, and that is what we are seeing.