EPTWhere did all of the terrans go? - Page 115
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
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Tingles
Australia225 Posts
All i got told was "play better, you suck" or "use a warp prism" or "stop making excuses for your bad play" I don't get how this is any different ... Terrans need to do something different now. I seem to remember the EXACT arguments about "bad design", "other race is a-move ezpz" etc etc with both Protoss and Zerg having the trouble. STFU and play better. All 3 races are hard in their own UNIQUE ways. Stop making excuses that Terran is harder so you can feel better about losing. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:34 Tingles wrote: So i must say this thread reminds me of when Protoss and Zerg went through their respective shitty periods (sad zealot anyone?). All i got told was "play better, you suck" or "use a warp prism" or "stop making excuses for your bad play" I don't get how this is any different ... Terrans need to do something different now. I seem to remember the EXACT arguments about "bad design", "other race is a-move ezpz" etc etc with both Protoss and Zerg having the trouble. STFU and play better. All 3 races are hard in their own UNIQUE ways. Stop making excuses that Terran is harder so you can feel better about losing. You seem to forget that Protoss didn't simply play better just like that. They received a good number of buffs. | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
Am I understanding this wrong ? | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:34 Tingles wrote: So i must say this thread reminds me of when Protoss and Zerg went through their respective shitty periods (sad zealot anyone?). All i got told was "play better, you suck" or "use a warp prism" or "stop making excuses for your bad play" I don't get how this is any different ... Terrans need to do something different now. I seem to remember the EXACT arguments about "bad design", "other race is a-move ezpz" etc etc with both Protoss and Zerg having the trouble. STFU and play better. All 3 races are hard in their own UNIQUE ways. Stop making excuses that Terran is harder so you can feel better about losing. Zealot charge buff Immortal range buff Warp prism hp buff Neural range nerf Ghost nerf Or protoss players just figured out the game and are better players now. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:39 ZenithM wrote: You seem to forget that Protoss didn't simply play better just like that. They received a good number of buffs. That is true, the Warp Prism was upgraded from paper plane to a useful unit. If Blizzard wanted to buff an under used terran unit, I don't think anyone would mind. I believe they have this unit call the Raven, which cost way to much gas and all its upgrades cost way to much gas and mana. Also, they may be over nerfed the Ghost. It is unclear, but EMP could have a slightly larger radius(not the old one, that was silly). | ||
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Tingles
Australia225 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:39 ZenithM wrote: You seem to forget that Protoss didn't simply play better just like that. They received a good number of buffs. Yep, and Protoss just sat back and complained and then suddenly buffs made them win. Of course i recognize that Toss got buffs, i'm not discrediting that to Protoss doing better. But they still had to actually play better ... it wasn't just like buffs = win ... the first buff was a warp prism buff right ? There was about a month or so after a warp prism buff where it was still the same, except warp prisms didn't die to a single marine. I'm also not saying that Terran has nothing to complain about ... it's hard, and i'm sure late game TvP is fucked. But i can't help but feel that we've been here before with the other races, and all i got was Terrans and Zergs telling me to STFU and play better. | ||
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huehuehuehue
Estonia455 Posts
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RUS RO DAH!!!
United States277 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:45 Tingles wrote: Yep, and Protoss just sat back and complained and then suddenly buffs made them win. Of course i recognize that Toss got buffs, i'm not discrediting that to Protoss doing better. But they still had to actually play better ... it wasn't just like buffs = win ... the first buff was a warp prism buff right ? There was about a month or so after a warp prism buff where it was still the same, except warp prisms didn't die to a single marine. I'm also not saying that Terran has nothing to complain about ... it's hard, and i'm sure late game TvP is fucked. But i can't help but feel that we've been here before with the other races, and all i got was Terrans and Zergs telling me to STFU and play better. So now you're here for revenge by telling terrans to STFU and play better? | ||
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Cyclone999
Canada331 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:34 Tingles wrote: So i must say this thread reminds me of when Protoss and Zerg went through their respective shitty periods (sad zealot anyone?). All i got told was "play better, you suck" or "use a warp prism" or "stop making excuses for your bad play" I don't get how this is any different ... Terrans need to do something different now. I seem to remember the EXACT arguments about "bad design", "other race is a-move ezpz" etc etc with both Protoss and Zerg having the trouble. STFU and play better. All 3 races are hard in their own UNIQUE ways. Stop making excuses that Te r so you can feel better about losing. Sooo...by complaining you guys get an immortal buff, an archon buff, upgrade cost buff, infestors get nerfed, ghosts get nerfed, warp prisms get buffed, and every patch Terran gets nerfed where Protoss gets buffed. Yeah...um...about that...we Terrans have been complaining about Protoss deathball since you guys learned about aoe (near beta) and then every time we figured something new, it gets nerfed and Protoss gets compensation for their losses with a buff. No, you guys havent done anything new since beta except maybe zealot/archon (hey, both of these got buffed?) whereas we actually have to work with the idea that Blizzard doesn't do anything for our concerns (except KA) | ||
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Bidj
France98 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:45 Tingles wrote: Yep, and Protoss just sat back and complained and then suddenly buffs made them win. Of course i recognize that Toss got buffs, i'm not discrediting that to Protoss doing better. But they still had to actually play better ... it wasn't just like buffs = win ... the first buff was a warp prism buff right ? There was about a month or so after a warp prism buff where it was still the same, except warp prisms didn't die to a single marine. I'm also not saying that Terran has nothing to complain about ... it's hard, and i'm sure late game TvP is fucked. But i can't help but feel that we've been here before with the other races, and all i got was Terrans and Zergs telling me to STFU and play better. The thing is, we are here to try to achieve balance in TvP, or at least "balance in micro needed to win fight among all levels of skill". That's it, that's about balance, not retribution. Some Terrans and Zergs were telling you to STFU when Protoss was UP ? That was stupid/not constructive because buffs were needed and their implementation helped P a lot (with adaptation, etc). So don't replicate this scheme and try to be constructive. I still think making charge a cast (would still be easy because of smartcasting) would help greatly to balance lower levels without influing on top level. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:34 Tingles wrote: So i must say this thread reminds me of when Protoss and Zerg went through their respective shitty periods (sad zealot anyone?). All i got told was "play better, you suck" or "use a warp prism" or "stop making excuses for your bad play" I don't get how this is any different ... Terrans need to do something different now. I seem to remember the EXACT arguments about "bad design", "other race is a-move ezpz" etc etc with both Protoss and Zerg having the trouble. STFU and play better. All 3 races are hard in their own UNIQUE ways. Stop making excuses that Terran is harder so you can feel better about losing. Z/P have received buffs. T have received nerfs. Maps have changed drastically. And yes, Z/P learned to play. Remember when Z ignored lings/mutas and even infestors/broodlords? Or when HT were ignored even WITH KA? The game has evolved, we're hardly at the same point of metagame/skill level/balance/maps as the old days that you seem to be bitter about. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:45 Tingles wrote: Yep, and Protoss just sat back and complained and then suddenly buffs made them win. Of course i recognize that Toss got buffs, i'm not discrediting that to Protoss doing better. But they still had to actually play better ... it wasn't just like buffs = win ... the first buff was a warp prism buff right ? There was about a month or so after a warp prism buff where it was still the same, except warp prisms didn't die to a single marine. I'm also not saying that Terran has nothing to complain about ... it's hard, and i'm sure late game TvP is fucked. But i can't help but feel that we've been here before with the other races, and all i got was Terrans and Zergs telling me to STFU and play better. Excuse me, I am pretty ignorant on the subject but what great revelation did Protoss players have? I'm kinda confused. | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:49 huehuehuehue wrote: Anyway, does anyone have replays/vods of some Korean terran going 1rax FE and beating a Protoss just by having sick agression/mechanics? I want to learn how to win like that, because I feel like most Protosses at my level couldnt deal with agression like that. I don't know your level (I guess mid master or below?) and I've tried alot of different aggressions from korean replays from tournaments and just high level GM play from playxp but it doesn't really work out that well for me when I play on EU as Terran. On their level or just master league on KR people try to cut as many corners as they can for the sake of superior economy but the people I play on EU don't. Forcefields stop the early pushes, when you move out with the first 2 medivacs you can only do that much and the rest of the game my P opponents just turtle at their natural/3rd building up deathballs and over-making cannons around the base and new expos so you can't drop while poking etc. It all comes down to me building up enough viking/ghost count and hope I pull up good enough micro with my bionic, viking positioning and ghosts when he actually move out. Fucking hate this play style and it seems like every NA/EU toss play like this too, even the pros. It's so frustrating when I roam around the map, poking and tries to find some way to engage and maybe sneak in a dropship at the same time while macroing and he just sits there building things. When there actually is a battle you peak 350-400 apm and he just a-moves, maybe blinks all his stalkers forward or back and spam T. After the game you see him not even breaking ~120 apm as avarage while you are up near 300. Playing vs this makes me so sick of TvP. Anyway, the only real early aggression I am able to win with is when they go 15 nex or som really greedy 1 gate FE when they skip zealot and go 2 stalker, then you can kill them with a right timed 5 rax (1 rax FE). | ||
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Tingles
Australia225 Posts
Cyclone999 - Yep ok. You win. Protoss got buffed and that made them win. We still just continued to herp derp and nothing changed. Protoss got sick buffs no doubt. Do you think they weren't needed? Charge upgrade is pretty much bullshit that you pay 200 / 200 for your zealots to still get kited. Immortal buff was because of 1-1-1 pretty much, also a fair buff. Warp prism was a paper plane. Infestor still got mad fugnal buff, which still makes it a fantastic unit. i DO think they went to far with the ghost though. Should have left it. | ||
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riff
United States113 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:57 Bidj wrote: The thing is, we are here to try to achieve balance in TvP, or at least "balance in micro needed to win fight among all levels of skill". That's it, that's about balance, not retribution. Some Terrans and Zergs were telling you to STFU when Protoss was UP ? That was stupid/not constructive because buffs were needed and their implementation helped P a lot (with adaptation, etc). So don't replicate this scheme and try to be constructive. I still think making charge a cast (would still be easy because of smartcasting) would help greatly to balance lower levels without influing on top level. Good advice. Just because some people were rude to you when your race was struggling, doesn't mean you have to adopt the same behavior. If you have some insight into the matchup you would like to share, perhaps some suggestions for Terrans to try, by all means, post away, but "stfu and get better," is not constructive. None of us want to go back to the days where Terran is overpowered. All we want is a fair and balanced matchup where a similar amount of effort must be expended on both sides throughout the game in order to achieve victory. One of the ideas I really like so far is to disable charge auto-cast. I think it would be good for the matchup if we gave Protoss more opportunities to micro and thus raise the skill ceiling. If I have to stutter step my bio, focus colossi with my vikings, emp with my ghosts or snipe hts, and macro at the same time, I don't see why Protoss can't have more battle responsibilities as well. Of course, that won't solve all the issues in TvP, but I think it's a small step in the right direction. Have there been any solid arguments against this proposition? | ||
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Tingles
Australia225 Posts
On March 22 2012 09:09 riff wrote: Good advice. Just because some people were rude to you when your race was struggling, doesn't mean you have to adopt the same behavior. If you have some insight into the matchup you would like to share, perhaps some suggestions for Terrans to try, by all means, post away, but "stfu and get better," is not constructive. None of us want to go back to the days where Terran is overpowered. All we want is a fair and balanced matchup where a similar amount of effort must be expended on both sides throughout the game in order to achieve victory. One of the ideas I really like so far is to disable charge auto-cast. I think it would be good for the matchup if we gave Protoss more opportunities to micro and thus raise the skill ceiling. If I have to stutter step my bio, focus colossi with my vikings, emp with my ghosts or snipe hts, and macro at the same time, I don't see why Protoss can't have more battle responsibilities as well. Of course, that won't solve all the issues in TvP, but I think it's a small step in the right direction. Have there been any solid arguments against this proposition? Totally agree actually. And yes, this whole fucking forum was trolling terrans, so i feel like giving a little back. However, trolling aside, i do agree that it doesn't help anyone to just "play better". Now i will say, what do you define as a "similar effort" ? Becuase all 3 races for army control are pretty unique, so it's hard to apply a measuring stick to it. First off, i'd like to say that Terran army control is hard, but i actually find Protoss's harder. Terrans is more demanding of you to be consistent, but Protoss is more precise. Protoss has to many clutch spell casting involved i feel. I actually think they need to get rid of the fucking colossus and add maybe another gateway / robo unit. Shit would solve so many issues. | ||
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Cyclone999
Canada331 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On March 22 2012 08:45 Tingles wrote: Yep, and Protoss just sat back and complained and then suddenly buffs made them win. Of course i recognize that Toss got buffs, i'm not discrediting that to Protoss doing better. But they still had to actually play better ... it wasn't just like buffs = win ... the first buff was a warp prism buff right ? There was about a month or so after a warp prism buff where it was still the same, except warp prisms didn't die to a single marine. I'm also not saying that Terran has nothing to complain about ... it's hard, and i'm sure late game TvP is fucked. But i can't help but feel that we've been here before with the other races, and all i got was Terrans and Zergs telling me to STFU and play better. Oh no I agree. Protoss players did improve. BUT buffs always help nicely. That's like back then when Zergs claimed to have "figured out" void ray openings in ZvP, even though they just received a huge root/uproot casting time buff, or figured out the death ball when they got the nice imba fungals (consequently nerfed a bit thereafter :D). Terran is the only race which got consistently only nerfed I think. For a long time, "figuring things out" for Terran meant starting to use a unit they didn't need before because all their shit raped the opposition easily enough. Then this unit was considered imbalanced and nerfed (think reaper, hellions, ghosts). Now maybe it's time to step back and notice that Terrans don't have that much many more clutch units in their arsenal left, and maybe some nerfs were over the top, leading to a race very hard to handle for noobs. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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