EPTOrb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 62
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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mute20
Canada175 Posts
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:33 Pasargadae wrote: Your post clearly defines how myopic and ignorant American attitudes are towards gross injustices. Women, homosexuals, religions, and the handicapped have been ridiculed and subjected for millennia. But now we bring up an extremely sensitive AMERICAN travesty and people like you have to start raising their voice in order to defend just how unbecoming your American ancestors were. Let's be honest, you clearly cannot comprehend that all gross injustices must be dealt with equal levels of criticism and vitality. Don't take his word as all of America -_- he obviously doesn't represent me or anyone who read Alex's post in its entirety and agreed wholeheartedly with it... 350 million people do not think the same way.... Calling all Americans stupid is a stereotype EXACTLY like the OP described. Its offensive as shit to be looked down upon for being American. Or black/gay to relate it to this issue. Can you say that every single south korean is _____? Fill it in with any word and the answer is still no. Anyways the point I'm making is please please please don't overgeneralize America and Americans. Thank you for your time and I understand where your frustration is coming from. There are many misguided people out there not just in America but around the world. | ||
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fujins
Romania23 Posts
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
On March 09 2012 14:54 Shiori wrote: The essential point is that the people causing a stir about racism are almost invariably white people (especially in this instance). Black people, as far as I have noticed, take offense to racism when it is applied directly to them or, in more famed cases, when it is politically prudent to do so (see fringe arguments from Obama's election). Yes, I meant something else, namely that racist intent is as important as the word chosen. To be honest, saying something like "you're just a lazy piece of shit, because that's what you were born to be" would be a HELL of a lot more offensive to any black person than simply calling them a "nigger" would be, if not for societal taboos and overreactions to the point that the N word is practically deified as the king of bad words. I think it's "understandable" that someone would be offended by casual use of the word nigger, just like I understand if someone who was raped is hurt by a joke about rape, or someone who was victimized by sexism is offended by sexist jokes or the like. Nevertheless, understanding is something much different from thinking it's justified or optimal that someone be offended. The only reason I understand is because of emotion. A perfectly reasonable person, free from emotion or the like clouding their judgment, should not have much reason to be angered by casual racist/sexist/whatever remarks, because they should understand that intent, not letters, causes crimes, and that if there was nothing behind the words, then the words are at worse rude and un-called for, but never some capital evil. I had a post typed up but I hit refresh or something and it got deleted =\ I'm too lazy to type it all again. What I was saying, in short summary form: a) I'm not sure that being emotional is suboptimal. This is well into philosophy now and not much about the actual event, but I think being emotional at times like these might be a good idea. Having a mental shortcut that connects people calling other people "niggers" to being racist can't be THAT harmful b) Even if being emotional at times like these is suboptimal, that doesn't mean the person using the slur should be allowed to use that as a defense. People should know that saying these words are going to cause emotional responses and be ready for the consequences. We don't live in an ideal world and throwing these words around isn't contributing to creating one. (This point is very pragmatic) c) Overall it would be better if people weren't offended by these words, but I don't believe that's a reasonable goal -- I don't know that it's even possible to just choose not to be offended. It's a much more reasonable goal for the community to make it clear that it's not okay to be so offensive and for those who are to be punished. Hopefully these make sense! | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm not a huge fan of orb's stream, mostly because of the way he rages and BMs on ladder. But at the same time, his analytic style of commentary is directly what I look for in casting live events, and in that regard I think he's top notch. I think this is a loss not only for orb, but for the community as well. For what it's worth, I hope we all take this as a lesson in what we stand to lose as a community and we in the future respect the teams we love by allowing them to handle their business before taking matters into our own hands. | ||
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jester-
Canada547 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:39 Sea_Food wrote: != means unequal or different, the opposite of = Ah. TIL. Then I'd agree, aside from censoring. | ||
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
1) The firing fuels and justifies the outcry - making the public more likely to outcry next time. 2) The outcry makes the CEO feel justified in the firing - as if he is affecting his bottom line or the bottom line of the sponsors. It is unclear if the outcry would result in real effect to the bottom line. So the only thing ensured by the firing is the further polarization of the use of words like "n-----" and "f-----" and "r-----" in this community, and I expect further backlashes/outcries of greater magnitude in the future, possibly - like this case - for lesser infractions. I feel this gives these words more power - not less - and is what is crippling the effort to heal historic inequalities. EG should have been strong and said: "We frown on the use of racial slurs in any context. We believe that Orb is not a racist and means no harm in this case, however, we feel he needs a formal repremand to remind him of his responsibilities in the public light." Since this is consistent with their policy on other members of EG they would not tarnish their reputation as this knee-jerk reaction does. However, they have demonstrated in the past that they respond poorly to public pressure, that is, by making over-zealous posts and statements on their shows that only fuel these types of problems. This firing is just another example of handling the issue incorrectly and fueling future outcries. I hope you figure it out guys. GL HF | ||
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R3m3mb3rM3
Germany954 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:39 BreakfastTea wrote: So, EG is supposed to vet the screenshots taken by third parties on their personal computers in order to determine whether or not Orb, or anyone else, used language that was offensive or contradicted company or cultural values? Or hire someone to monitor the streams of everyone with an internet connection and an SC2 account? As for your second point, if you discover that someone has used indefensible language in the past, lies about it to you, and then generally is the cause of people CONTACTING YOUR SPONSORS DIRECTLY, are you really going to sit around and wait to see if that person does it again? Hmm... you do have a point, when you put it like that! | ||
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JackDT
724 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote: I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? | ||
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Pasargadae
Korea (South)173 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:42 BreakfastBurrito wrote: Don't take his word as all of America -_- he obviously doesn't represent me or anyone who read Alex's post in its entirety and agreed wholeheartedly with it... 350 million people do not think the same way.... Calling all Americans stupid is a stereotype EXACTLY like the OP described. Its offensive as shit to be looked down upon for being American. Or black/gay to relate it to this issue. Can you say that every single south korean is _____? Fill it in with any word and the answer is still no. Anyways the point I'm making is please please please don't overgeneralize America and Americans. Thank you for your time and I understand where your frustration is coming from. There are many misguided people out there not just in America but around the world. Read my post's edit. Clearly vague generalizations are not perfect. e; Oops, I meant my following post. | ||
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anApple
Singapore275 Posts
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
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firrae
Canada68 Posts
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`Zapdos
United States935 Posts
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crocodile
United States615 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:42 fujins wrote: anyway u look at it it seems it was an excuse to get rid of orb from the eg broadcast seems incredibly idiotic to me. they just hired him, why would they want to get rid of him? | ||
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ccKane
Sweden20 Posts
Dismissing him was the only right thing to do. Racism has no place in RL and it sure as hell has no place in eSports. | ||
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cari-kira
Germany655 Posts
On March 09 2012 12:47 Dusty wrote: That's too bad. I guess people shouldn't say such things when you are a public figure :\ no, you shouldn't say or think such things at all. just use another word, one, that doesn't offend some people by the color of their skin, their sexxual preference or things like that. the world knows _many_ swearwords, it should be no problem if you do without some of them, right? | ||
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illumn
New Zealand437 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:32 Empirimancer wrote: Nope. I doubt there's a single person on this planet who would have started watching SC2 tournaments but didn't because and only because s/he's heard a caster or player use a racial slur. If there's something that's holding SC2 back, that's not it. Actually, the "gamer" stereotype perpetuated by his behaviour certainly drives non-gamers away from gaming. | ||
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