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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
while using offensive words is inexcusable. I still feel that racism is lingering around mainly because of the strict value that the majority of people put on these words. Personally, I cannot get offended by words directed at me, nothing that anyone can say about me really affects me. If someone says something that offends a person I care about and they get upset then I will take offence. Although the right thing to do was to indeed remove Orb from the cast, I think the world needs to move into the direction of stamping out racism forever. The way to do that is not to "forbid" people from saying stuff, but to educate and gradually change the meaning of words. I would hope that in maybe 20 years time, people would be amused that the "n" word once was a racial slur, and in that day and age it would mean something else, or even a word dropped out of use in the english language all together.
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On March 09 2012 15:44 CeroFail wrote: A caster's career destroyed by the community over rage in a ladder game. Still, oh well, understandable.
No, caster loses job after making an ass of himself. Orb is decent guy with a lot of potential. His career is FAR from over.
Besides, he's a White male, so he'll get tons of second chances.
^^^^^^^^^^ KIDDING ^^^^^^^^^^^
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I would like to say that this whole situation is a bit messed up on both sides. Orb has become a prominent caster and as such is a representative of our community. If he intentionally or unintentionally makes statements that are considered offensive by the community then action should be taken to deal with the situation (when I say ‘deal’ it could mean many different things depending on the context and extent of his actions or said language). I do not want someone who represents what I love Sc2, making statements could be considered offensive or bigotry because even though I didn't say those mean things I am affiliated with it. As such it can then indirectly be viewed as representative of me.
We obviously do not hold everyone to this standard ex(Destiny I don’t see threads on reedit calling for him to be banned from programing). However I do believe that since Orb is in a position of representing our community as a caster, he should be held to higher standards. However his comments came before he was at EG and therefore I believe that he should have been punished but not on the level he was. I don't know how the logistics of the business side of how Sc2 works so I could not say what sort of punishment would have been acceptable like a pay cut or time off without pay. I do know that often pro sports players get fines, pay cuts, are forced to sit out part of the season). My point is that unless a sports player commits something totally unacceptable they are punished but given another chance to prove themselves. Orb's actions though offensive do not violate any laws, heck if everyone on b-net who ever used offensive language as bm was forced to stop playing we would be left with only sheth, dimaga and white-ra.
I like that EG waited to be sure that the accusations were true which shows a lot of good character on their part. On the flip side though rather than punish Orb to and give him a second chance, they straight up punished him and gave him no chance to prove that he can change. If you are not willing to let others learn from their mistakes then you shouldn’t expect others to give you a chance to learn from your either. I firmly believe in second chances because no matter who you are, no matter how moral nice or righteous your personality is you are going to need one one day. Why not give Orb his?
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I understand and agree with the decision, i just think it is sad that people on these forums had to dig deep into replays and upload them about a person just because they were jealous of him. GL orb.
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I don't necessarily dissagree with EG on their decision to fire Orb. They had to make a business decision about a person who was a brand representative. The decision to become a caster, or pro gamer, is ultimately a decision to become a public person. Public people need to manage their brand and be careful about activities that would otherwise be anonymous.
My objection is to the concept of punishing speech as a community, especially when it comes to ignoring the context of that speech. There is a chilling effect on the freedom of expression whenever an event like this happens. It doesn't matter what kind of speech is being suppressed. I believe working to get somebody fired and pulling sponsorships is an act of censorship, and should be avoided. EG Alex's post is the appropriate way to respond: combat ideas with ideas.
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On March 09 2012 15:50 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Disclaimer: this post contains what I suppose could be construed as political views. These are my personal opinions, and while they don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other EG employee, it would be silly to claim that a CEO's personal opinions don't rub off on his corporate philosophy, at least a little bit.Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended. I expressed my shock and disappointment in an op-ed, which was received somewhat controversially. While I was disappointed enough in the community's initial reaction to the incident, I was even more disappointed at its reaction to my comments. It was extremely disheartening to witness the cultural values, or lack thereof, being displayed by my peers. Almost ten years later, I am a proud member of the StarCraft community, a culture which I find to be far more intelligent, conscious, and respectful than the Counter-Strike community was in 2003. And, while what I'm about to say may be odd to hear, given that EG's sponsors have been bombarded with complaints from StarCraft fans and players over the past 24 hours, I can say with complete honesty and sincerity that I have never been prouder to call myself a member of the StarCraft community than I am at this moment. I'll explain why further down in this write-up, but first, bear with me as I offer some context. My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice. And, while I'll never claim to understand what life is like from the perspective of anyone other than a straight, White guy, I'd like to think that I have a pretty solid academic understanding of how race and racism function in contemporary society. My own credentials aside, I think it's really important to point out that racism today is not what it once was; not in the sense that it is any less widespread, or that it has any less of an impact on people's lives, but rather, in the sense that it functions very differently today compared to how it functioned twenty, thirty, forty, or more, years ago. Take, for example, the term "racist," which I think is a rather antiquated word, and one that's been injected with so much hyperbolic meaning and stigma over the years that it is now almost entirely devoid of any actual, useful meaning. Traditionally, using the term "racist" in describing a person, action, or statement implies intent, or belief in a racial hierarchy, or belief in the superiority of one race over another. These are the objective criteria standardly utilized in labeling something or someone as being "racist." But at this point in time, in contemporary society, there are relatively few people (especially compared to how things were in the mid-to-late 20th century) who actually believe in the aforementioned kinds of objectively-racist systems of thought. Aside from White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis (who still very much exist, don't get me wrong), and other extreme examples, most people in our age group just don't believe in that kind of racism. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that most of the people reading this post were taught that racism is bad, that racial equality is good, and that you shouldn't be racist. The fact is that these days, most people don't think they're racists, and don't want to be identified as being, or doing something racist. And yet, racism still occurs, and we all still say and do things to perpetuate it, whether consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally. There's a great book about this sociological issue called "Racism without Racists," and if this kind of subject matter interests you, you'd be wise to check it out. Anyway, the bottom line is that, despite this change in how we view racism, it's still everywhere. It's still incredibly powerful, and it pervades most - if not all - aspects of our society. It's just, for the most part, much more covert than it was fifty years ago. Nowadays, it usually takes the form of stereotypes and institutional policies, rather than racial slurs and violence. And correspondingly, in my opinion, it has become far too complex to be accurately described by the term "racist." We've all witnessed arguments about whether a particular joke someone made was "racist," or "offensive," or "insensitive." The question I always ask is, are any of these adjectives really accurate or appropriate? I don't think we've developed a functional verbal toolset to appropriately discuss contemporary, covert racism. With this in mind, I try to entirely avoid labeling people as "racist," and I define something as being "racist" only if it plays a functional role in perpetuating racism (for example, I'll call a joke a "racist" joke if it plays on stereotypes, because stereotypes function as the foundational pillars of race and racism). Now, moving on to points more relevant to the happenings of the past several days, let me be clear: it is my personal opinion that n----- is the ugliest, most repulsive word in the American-English vocabulary. I have never said it, typed it, or written it. If it's used in my presence, I immediately speak up and demand that it not be used again in my presence, regardless of context or circumstances (and for the record, I am equally sensitive about who can and can't say n---a, but that's a different discussion entirely). There are many valid reasons to find the word n----- offensive and repulsive, but for me, the overarching reason is that there is no other word that so efficiently and effectively captures such extreme human injustice and inequality. There is an inherent power dynamic/discrepancy contained within the act of saying the word n-----, and its use sets its subject apart from its object to a greater extent than any other word we have is able to. As such, if you prescribe to my contemporary definition of racism outlined above, there is no more racist word in existence than n-----. By its very nature, it is the essence of absolute racism, in its most extreme form, encapsulated in a noun. In my opinion, with few exceptions, it doesn't matter who says it, to whom, in what context. It's a racist word. If it has a subject and an object, I find its use to be inexcusable - again, with very few exceptions. In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back. I apologize to those of you who feel that we took too long to make this decision, but we wanted to make sure the allegations were true before acting, and as recently as 24 hours ago, their validity was still in question (as Scott explained on Live on 3 last night). While Orb's inexcusable comments occurred before he was contracted by EG, and they (of course) did not occur on an EG-affiliated broadcast, neither of these points accounted for our delay in dismissing him. We were never looking for a loophole, here. It didn't matter to us where or when these actions took place. We just wanted to make sure the allegations were true before moving to act and formally parting ways. And, it should go without saying that if we'd ever known that Orb had used such language in the past, or was prone to using such language, we wouldn't have contracted him in the first place. For the record, I do want to point out that I don't think Orb is "a racist." As mentioned above, I think that to make such a claim would be to misunderstand the nature of contemporary racism. This, of course, does not lessen the severity of his actions, or the extent to which they are unacceptable and inexcusable, but it's still an important distinction to make. As also mentioned above, I think that it's possible to make a racist comment without being a card-carrying Neo-Nazi - the latter is not a necessary condition for the former - and I hope that all of you will consider - whenever it is that you're done expressing your very justifiable outrage - forgiving Orb, if he apologizes sufficiently. While no amount of penance will land him back at the EG broadcast desk, he's a very talented caster, and I hope that he learns from this experience and eventually rebounds from the trouble he's gotten himself into. In many ways, a culture's icons reflect its core set of values. Being granted celebrity status, and being allowed to represent an entire community, or a portion of a community - these are privileges only given to individuals with whom said community identifies and whose perceived values said community respects. I mentioned at the beginning of this post how disappointed I was in the Counter-Strike community back in 2003, because the community still allowed that team of players to retain its celebrity/icon status, even after their true identities and transgressions were exposed. Their actions violated my core values, and as such, I felt that they should be publicly condemned, and have their celebrity status revoked. The majority of the community, however, felt the exact opposite, and further celebrated the team for their behavior. Based on this, I came to the conclusion that the community's cultural values were not in line with mine, and that was a disheartening realization for me. However, almost ten years later, as I also mentioned at the beginning of this (very long) post, I've never been prouder to be a part of the StarCraft community (or of any gaming community) than I am at this very moment. And I feel this way because, despite the fact that you guys have been peppering my sponsors with complaints*, your outrage shows me that we do have a set of core values (one of which is that racism isn't acceptable), and we expect our icons and celebrities to share those values; otherwise, they won't be our icons and celebrities any longer. The eSports industry, and especially some of its respective communities, still have a lot growing up to do before they're truly ready to become mainstream. Just a few weeks ago, we saw the fighting game community at the heart of some major controversy because its culture seemed to condone overt sexism and sexual harassment; these forms of discrimination, in fact, were cited by many members of the FGC as part of what makes fighting game culture what it is. In that regard, the FGC revealed the immaturity of its cultural values, and showed that it still has a lot of growing up to do. I think we all already knew, prior to this incident, that the StarCraft community was one of the more mature gaming communities out there, but it's still refreshing and encouraging to see that maturity reinforced by how (most of) you guys have reacted over the past few days. I urge you to continue to stand up for what you think is right, and help make this community a safe, comfortable space for everyone. I can say, with unwavering certainty, on behalf of everyone at EG, that we are absolutely, 100% committed to doing our part to achieve those goals. ...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community  . Sincerely, Alexander Garfield CEO, Evil Geniuses @ottersareneat on Twittrr *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult  . Let's at least be honest here: 1. This "black studies" race and social justice preamble is unnecessary and insincere. Call it for what it really is: there is a business that had to be protected here, and firing orb was the "reasonable" least-amount-of-conflict decision for business. 2. Did EG not know orb is known to BM in ladder BEFORE they hired him knowing that they'd justify firing people (orb in this case) for such? 3. Was EG right to kick him? YES. EG has the right to do anything it wants to run its business 4. What about the team members (Incontrol, Idra, and Huk) who has well-documented cases of throwing out racial and homophobic slurs? Again, EG can do anything it wants with its business, but after knowing that the CEO went to such great length to belabor upon social justice and racism, I can't help but think of hipocrisy. Just edit out the pontification in the OP and write a generic "We have decided that our core interests and beliefs are not parallel/It is not to the best interest of both parties to continue the contract/etc". Moreover, this "if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us" is such a sad and distasteful attempt to do business. You can damage control all you wnt, but now you want TLers and random people in the net to prompt up your business? Come on dude! What about the justice and the values you were talking about? 5. What about orb? Well that is a tough lesson in real life (interwebs-powered) mate. I doubt even if he admitted to his mistake he could have saved his job. He was the weak "dispensible" element in the equation, EG had to make a decision and he was the easiest one. And never anger a mob, an anonymous one at that. Anyway, it's been sometime since there was SC2 drama. I hope this becomes an opportunity for everyone to grow.
I am going to have to agree wholeheartedly with Keyboard Warrior on this one. This is blown WAY out of proportion for something that happened on a ladder game and not on an actual casting.
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On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote: I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please.
The entire purpose of writing verbal rage on the computer is a " HATEFUL INTENT". It's a form of attempting to belittle your opponent which is definitely intentional. I don't see an over-reaction from the community. I see a community that wants a professional organization.
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Wow EG doesn't fuck around....
That's a good thing though. Language such as this shouldn't be tolerated.
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good decision imo. but i hope orb will get a second chance someday, he got a lot of potential as a caster.
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Can't really say I agree with this decision at all, good luck though Orb.
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On March 09 2012 16:00 Heston wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote: I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting to usage of the word that does not follow the hateful nature of the word I mentioned. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please. We have legislation in our country against people discriminating on others on terms of race, do you think someone in the media could use the word nigger in the same context orb did and say something along the lines "Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person" would be a suitable excuse to not lose your job? Or on that matter do you think you would be able to get away with even saying nigger in any sort of context infront of the supreme court?
Except this isn't someone in the media. When the incidents took place, this is some dude playing video games in his parents basement. Does that excuse the usage? No, it doesn't.
Honestly, you're going to sit here and compare SC2 game chat to the supreme court? You can't say fuck in the supreme court either, are we going to start banning casters for saying fuck or shit?
I don't even want to reply to this because you don't seem to understand.
"Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person"
This isn't at all in any way what I'm saying.
You know what a curse word is right? Different people have different curse words, period. There is a world of a difference between using a word as a curse against an anonymous individual than a directed hate attack.
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On March 09 2012 15:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:35 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:29 viticuss wrote:On March 09 2012 15:25 Argolis wrote:On March 09 2012 15:20 viticuss wrote:On March 09 2012 15:19 sharky246 wrote: how come idra gets exemption from offensive language but not orb? n--r != faggot. If you're non-american you may not understand but thats the plain truth of it here. You know you can type the whole word ou, especially if you are gonna type out the word faggot right next to it.. Saying shit like n---r is rather pointless don't you think? Everyone knows what word you are saying yet you somehow try to hide it. The reason the word nigger has so much "power" is because of people like you who treat the word like it's the most offensive word in the worldm when it has no qualities that make it any different than any other slur or insult. it's an offensive word. Stop treating it like it's any different than the rest of them. That's so phony. We only feel like we have lisence to somehow unempower it because we are on a anonymous predominantly white forum. It's a tired example but if it's really "just an insult" then I suggest you head to the south side of chicago, hang out down on 90th street and call someone the n word when they do something stupid. Quit pretending we can just hide behind the internet our whole lives. You don't understand the situation then, period. There is a CLEAR and EASILY understandable difference between calling some anonymous person on the internet a nigger versus going to the south side of chicago, walking up to someone and calling them a nigger. We aren't hiding behind anything, some people here just realize that there is a difference between hateful intent and nerd raging. Did you seriously just write that? lol stupid... Anyway, there's no difference between when and where your using the word. The words sole creation was based on disrespect; regarding a person of a certain race. There are no variations to the word once you add the "er". There's only one definition for the word and overtime people have tried to make up definitions for it so they could have an excuse for using it when their inner racist comes out (ex: Destiny). Some people say the word could be to describe someone who is disrespectful regardless of race. But, I highly doubt when enslaved african-americans were labeled such a radical name that they earned it by being "disrespectful". It's a pure hate word and I encourage anybody using it to walk up to somebody who's african american and say it to their face. User was warned for this post
Not sure why you got warned.
But there are plenty of Black people that find the word offensive when used by other Black people. They hate the idea that a historically derogatory word is being co-opted by anybody.
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On March 09 2012 15:50 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Disclaimer: this post contains what I suppose could be construed as political views. These are my personal opinions, and while they don't necessarily reflect the opinions of any other EG employee, it would be silly to claim that a CEO's personal opinions don't rub off on his corporate philosophy, at least a little bit.Back in 2003, a group of well-known Counter-Strike players (mostly White and Asian) decided that it would be fun to masquerade as an African-American Counter-Strike team. They created fake names, used fake profile pictures, and proceeded to compete in an entire season of league play while pretending to be African-American. When the players were finally exposed, the Counter-Strike community reacted to the incident with more amusement than anything else, and I - an avid member of the CS community at that time - was shocked and offended. I expressed my shock and disappointment in an op-ed, which was received somewhat controversially. While I was disappointed enough in the community's initial reaction to the incident, I was even more disappointed at its reaction to my comments. It was extremely disheartening to witness the cultural values, or lack thereof, being displayed by my peers. Almost ten years later, I am a proud member of the StarCraft community, a culture which I find to be far more intelligent, conscious, and respectful than the Counter-Strike community was in 2003. And, while what I'm about to say may be odd to hear, given that EG's sponsors have been bombarded with complaints from StarCraft fans and players over the past 24 hours, I can say with complete honesty and sincerity that I have never been prouder to call myself a member of the StarCraft community than I am at this moment. I'll explain why further down in this write-up, but first, bear with me as I offer some context. My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice. And, while I'll never claim to understand what life is like from the perspective of anyone other than a straight, White guy, I'd like to think that I have a pretty solid academic understanding of how race and racism function in contemporary society. My own credentials aside, I think it's really important to point out that racism today is not what it once was; not in the sense that it is any less widespread, or that it has any less of an impact on people's lives, but rather, in the sense that it functions very differently today compared to how it functioned twenty, thirty, forty, or more, years ago. Take, for example, the term "racist," which I think is a rather antiquated word, and one that's been injected with so much hyperbolic meaning and stigma over the years that it is now almost entirely devoid of any actual, useful meaning. Traditionally, using the term "racist" in describing a person, action, or statement implies intent, or belief in a racial hierarchy, or belief in the superiority of one race over another. These are the objective criteria standardly utilized in labeling something or someone as being "racist." But at this point in time, in contemporary society, there are relatively few people (especially compared to how things were in the mid-to-late 20th century) who actually believe in the aforementioned kinds of objectively-racist systems of thought. Aside from White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis (who still very much exist, don't get me wrong), and other extreme examples, most people in our age group just don't believe in that kind of racism. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that most of the people reading this post were taught that racism is bad, that racial equality is good, and that you shouldn't be racist. The fact is that these days, most people don't think they're racists, and don't want to be identified as being, or doing something racist. And yet, racism still occurs, and we all still say and do things to perpetuate it, whether consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally. There's a great book about this sociological issue called "Racism without Racists," and if this kind of subject matter interests you, you'd be wise to check it out. Anyway, the bottom line is that, despite this change in how we view racism, it's still everywhere. It's still incredibly powerful, and it pervades most - if not all - aspects of our society. It's just, for the most part, much more covert than it was fifty years ago. Nowadays, it usually takes the form of stereotypes and institutional policies, rather than racial slurs and violence. And correspondingly, in my opinion, it has become far too complex to be accurately described by the term "racist." We've all witnessed arguments about whether a particular joke someone made was "racist," or "offensive," or "insensitive." The question I always ask is, are any of these adjectives really accurate or appropriate? I don't think we've developed a functional verbal toolset to appropriately discuss contemporary, covert racism. With this in mind, I try to entirely avoid labeling people as "racist," and I define something as being "racist" only if it plays a functional role in perpetuating racism (for example, I'll call a joke a "racist" joke if it plays on stereotypes, because stereotypes function as the foundational pillars of race and racism). Now, moving on to points more relevant to the happenings of the past several days, let me be clear: it is my personal opinion that n----- is the ugliest, most repulsive word in the American-English vocabulary. I have never said it, typed it, or written it. If it's used in my presence, I immediately speak up and demand that it not be used again in my presence, regardless of context or circumstances (and for the record, I am equally sensitive about who can and can't say n---a, but that's a different discussion entirely). There are many valid reasons to find the word n----- offensive and repulsive, but for me, the overarching reason is that there is no other word that so efficiently and effectively captures such extreme human injustice and inequality. There is an inherent power dynamic/discrepancy contained within the act of saying the word n-----, and its use sets its subject apart from its object to a greater extent than any other word we have is able to. As such, if you prescribe to my contemporary definition of racism outlined above, there is no more racist word in existence than n-----. By its very nature, it is the essence of absolute racism, in its most extreme form, encapsulated in a noun. In my opinion, with few exceptions, it doesn't matter who says it, to whom, in what context. It's a racist word. If it has a subject and an object, I find its use to be inexcusable - again, with very few exceptions. In line with this, earlier today, Orb, who had been contracted by EG to anchor our Master's Cup broadcasts, was informed that he has been dismissed of his position and will not be invited back. I apologize to those of you who feel that we took too long to make this decision, but we wanted to make sure the allegations were true before acting, and as recently as 24 hours ago, their validity was still in question (as Scott explained on Live on 3 last night). While Orb's inexcusable comments occurred before he was contracted by EG, and they (of course) did not occur on an EG-affiliated broadcast, neither of these points accounted for our delay in dismissing him. We were never looking for a loophole, here. It didn't matter to us where or when these actions took place. We just wanted to make sure the allegations were true before moving to act and formally parting ways. And, it should go without saying that if we'd ever known that Orb had used such language in the past, or was prone to using such language, we wouldn't have contracted him in the first place. For the record, I do want to point out that I don't think Orb is "a racist." As mentioned above, I think that to make such a claim would be to misunderstand the nature of contemporary racism. This, of course, does not lessen the severity of his actions, or the extent to which they are unacceptable and inexcusable, but it's still an important distinction to make. As also mentioned above, I think that it's possible to make a racist comment without being a card-carrying Neo-Nazi - the latter is not a necessary condition for the former - and I hope that all of you will consider - whenever it is that you're done expressing your very justifiable outrage - forgiving Orb, if he apologizes sufficiently. While no amount of penance will land him back at the EG broadcast desk, he's a very talented caster, and I hope that he learns from this experience and eventually rebounds from the trouble he's gotten himself into. In many ways, a culture's icons reflect its core set of values. Being granted celebrity status, and being allowed to represent an entire community, or a portion of a community - these are privileges only given to individuals with whom said community identifies and whose perceived values said community respects. I mentioned at the beginning of this post how disappointed I was in the Counter-Strike community back in 2003, because the community still allowed that team of players to retain its celebrity/icon status, even after their true identities and transgressions were exposed. Their actions violated my core values, and as such, I felt that they should be publicly condemned, and have their celebrity status revoked. The majority of the community, however, felt the exact opposite, and further celebrated the team for their behavior. Based on this, I came to the conclusion that the community's cultural values were not in line with mine, and that was a disheartening realization for me. However, almost ten years later, as I also mentioned at the beginning of this (very long) post, I've never been prouder to be a part of the StarCraft community (or of any gaming community) than I am at this very moment. And I feel this way because, despite the fact that you guys have been peppering my sponsors with complaints*, your outrage shows me that we do have a set of core values (one of which is that racism isn't acceptable), and we expect our icons and celebrities to share those values; otherwise, they won't be our icons and celebrities any longer. The eSports industry, and especially some of its respective communities, still have a lot growing up to do before they're truly ready to become mainstream. Just a few weeks ago, we saw the fighting game community at the heart of some major controversy because its culture seemed to condone overt sexism and sexual harassment; these forms of discrimination, in fact, were cited by many members of the FGC as part of what makes fighting game culture what it is. In that regard, the FGC revealed the immaturity of its cultural values, and showed that it still has a lot of growing up to do. I think we all already knew, prior to this incident, that the StarCraft community was one of the more mature gaming communities out there, but it's still refreshing and encouraging to see that maturity reinforced by how (most of) you guys have reacted over the past few days. I urge you to continue to stand up for what you think is right, and help make this community a safe, comfortable space for everyone. I can say, with unwavering certainty, on behalf of everyone at EG, that we are absolutely, 100% committed to doing our part to achieve those goals. ...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community  . Sincerely, Alexander Garfield CEO, Evil Geniuses @ottersareneat on Twittrr *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult  . Let's at least be honest here: 1. This "black studies" race and social justice preamble is unnecessary and insincere. Call it for what it really is: there is a business that had to be protected here, and firing orb was the "reasonable" least-amount-of-conflict decision for business. 2. Did EG not know orb is known to BM in ladder BEFORE they hired him knowing that they'd justify firing people (orb in this case) for such? 3. Was EG right to kick him? YES. EG has the right to do anything it wants to run its business 4. What about the team members (Incontrol, Idra, and Huk) who has well-documented cases of throwing out racial and homophobic slurs? Again, EG can do anything it wants with its business, but after knowing that the CEO went to such great length to belabor upon social justice and racism, I can't help but think of hipocrisy. Just edit out the pontification in the OP and write a generic "We have decided that our core interests and beliefs are not parallel/It is not to the best interest of both parties to continue the contract/etc". Moreover, this "if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us" is such a sad and distasteful attempt to do business. You can damage control all you wnt, but now you want TLers and random people in the net to prompt up your business? Come on dude! What about the justice and the values you were talking about? 5. What about orb? Well that is a tough lesson in real life (interwebs-powered) mate. I doubt even if he admitted to his mistake he could have saved his job. He was the weak "dispensible" element in the equation, EG had to make a decision and he was the easiest one. And never anger a mob, an anonymous one at that. Anyway, it's been sometime since there was SC2 drama. I hope this becomes an opportunity for everyone to grow.
I agree with your points. Quietly dismissing someone to save sponsors is one thing, but making a public show of it by throwing him to the wolves - that's pretty ruthless. But I can't blame the CEO, what with sponsorships at stake. Let's just not kid ourselves that this is about anything other than business.
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The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him.
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People are willing to leverage sponsors over this "issue", yet unwilling to thank them for their support or encourage them to invest more. Or watch ads, or buy products, or pay for events. It's always easier to complain I suppose.
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On March 09 2012 16:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote: I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please. The entire purpose of writing verbal rage on the computer is a " HATEFUL INTENT". It's a form of attempting to belittle your opponent which is definitely intentional. I don't see an over-reaction from the community. I see a community that wants a professional organization.
Yeah, hateful intent that can be accomplished with any number of "insert here" swear words. To the less mature, nigger is equivalent to a swear word, nothing more.
I see a community that lynched one of it's stand out, hard working and upcoming members over a uttering a word that had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on anyone.
I also see a community that is outrageously over zealous with their missions against people and a community that follows a destructive herd mentality.
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I'm absolutely not surprised to wake up this morning and read this as the outcome, I said to my friend last night that Orb will be fired by EG. Definitely the right thing to do here.
1. While I dont 'like' EG as a Starcraft 2 team (from a fan point of view) I do respect their CEO. He's a fantastic businessman as he has once again proven right here. Its easy to see why EG has such a big fan base and is seemingly doing so well with a man like him in the driving seat.
2. Some people disagree, but eSports is a business. Its run by money, image and skill, in that order. I know that its largely down to personal values as expressed by Mr. Garfield, I and many of us would do the same, but there is also of course the business side to it. His sponsors have received complaints from the customers of eSports (the customers being us). That kind of thing just cannot be left alone by a businesses CEO. Being fired is the outcome you would receive in 99.9999% of businesses in the Western world for the same behaviour.
3. I hope that all players and casters are starting to realise how "in the spotlight" they actually are. Several incidents spring to mind, the Naniwa probe rush. The Dragon Playhem incident, and those are recent. They act unprofessionally according to the unwritten business "rules" of eSports and they are assaulted by the customers/community for what they did. Then something very bad happens to that person by the people who write their pay cheques.
If you are a big name in Starcraft 2, you aren't just some kid playing games in his bedroom any more. You are a celebrity and thousands of people have expectations of you. I hope all these recent events or 'fiascos' are making people realise that.
If you complained to the sponsors then absolutely re-bombard them with praise of EG. The man responsible has received his punishment, let nothing further come from this.
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whats so brave about guilty white people who need sponsor money firing a lesser known caster?
in the end it's all about the money and not the morals of a "black studies" CEO who has double standards just based on the fame of the offender.
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