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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 16:10 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote:
I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please. The entire purpose of writing verbal rage on the computer is a " HATEFUL INTENT". It's a form of attempting to belittle your opponent which is definitely intentional. I don't see an over-reaction from the community. I see a community that wants a professional organization. Yeah, hateful intent that can be accomplished with any number of "insert here" swear words. To the less mature, nigger is equivalent to a swear word, nothing more. I see a community that lynched one of it's stand out, hard working and upcoming members over a uttering a word that had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on anyone. I also see a community that is outrageously over zealous with their missions against people and a community that follows a destructive herd mentality.
That's your opinion. The word was created on pure disrespect to degrade the african american populous during slave times. I believe that holds much more weight then your common swear word; especially because the word "nigger" has a deep history whereas the others don't. Also, you said it had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on anyone. First off, if it didn't...then why did EG let him go? Look at this thread and tell me if it didn't have an impact on "anyone".
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qlpfk/orb_gets_really_mad_when_he_loses_lol/
Also, the community didn't "lynch" a hard working and upcoming member. Orb lynched himself, by not having enough maturity and self control to not use such a derogatory word.
Personally, if you want to make it in life; professionalism is something that comes with it
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Pff, I don't know if he should be fired over the whole nigger thing. Just a good scolding.
He should be fired because of the the cover up though.
I hope that everybody can give the guy another chance when he returns to the scene in 2-3 months. He is a good caster and everybody deserves to make mistakes.
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double standards are the norm for EG i guess
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On March 09 2012 16:19 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him. It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic. It's a word.
And words are incredibly powerful. And carry histories, cultural connections in combination with every connotation/utterance.
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On March 09 2012 16:17 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 15:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:On March 09 2012 15:35 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:29 viticuss wrote:On March 09 2012 15:25 Argolis wrote:On March 09 2012 15:20 viticuss wrote:On March 09 2012 15:19 sharky246 wrote:
how come idra gets exemption from offensive language but not orb? n--r != faggot. If you're non-american you may not understand but thats the plain truth of it here. You know you can type the whole word ou, especially if you are gonna type out the word faggot right next to it.. Saying shit like n---r is rather pointless don't you think? Everyone knows what word you are saying yet you somehow try to hide it. The reason the word nigger has so much "power" is because of people like you who treat the word like it's the most offensive word in the worldm when it has no qualities that make it any different than any other slur or insult. it's an offensive word. Stop treating it like it's any different than the rest of them. That's so phony. We only feel like we have lisence to somehow unempower it because we are on a anonymous predominantly white forum. It's a tired example but if it's really "just an insult" then I suggest you head to the south side of chicago, hang out down on 90th street and call someone the n word when they do something stupid. Quit pretending we can just hide behind the internet our whole lives. You don't understand the situation then, period. There is a CLEAR and EASILY understandable difference between calling some anonymous person on the internet a nigger versus going to the south side of chicago, walking up to someone and calling them a nigger. We aren't hiding behind anything, some people here just realize that there is a difference between hateful intent and nerd raging. Did you seriously just write that? lol stupid... Anyway, there's no difference between when and where your using the word. The words sole creation was based on disrespect; regarding a person of a certain race. There are no variations to the word once you add the "er". There's only one definition for the word and overtime people have tried to make up definitions for it so they could have an excuse for using it when their inner racist comes out (ex: Destiny). Some people say the word could be to describe someone who is disrespectful regardless of race. But, I highly doubt when enslaved african-americans were labeled such a radical name that they earned it by being "disrespectful". It's a pure hate word and I encourage anybody using it to walk up to somebody who's african american and say it to their face. User was warned for this post Except there is a difference, plain and simple. In one situation, you are demeaning a black person by using a derogatory term you know is offensive towards that individual. In the other, you are typing out strings of text to someone sitting at a computer who's identity is unknown to you - and is likely sitting there laughing at how mad you are.
But at the same time, you don't have to be black to be offended by the word...
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On March 09 2012 16:20 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:19 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him. It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic. It's a word. Words matter.
Accidentally asking for red paint when you want to paint a blue sky is when words matter. This is people arbitrarily taking offence at something. If I were to arbitrarily take offence at people taking offence, who then would be in the wrong?
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On March 09 2012 16:17 tomatriedes wrote:
So any bets on who the Reddit Lynch mob will take down next?
the next one that is stupid enough to pwn himself, maybe?
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On March 09 2012 15:49 WesleyLok wrote:
Good job EG, I highly respect you for making this move. I hope that other organizations such as NASL and ESV tv that employ orb will also dismiss him.
if thats the case then they need to dismiss idra. the ammount of shit he has said in the past is 9000x worst then anything orb has said and that legacy will follow idra wherever he goes. lets be realistic and fair now. i will never respect EG because of the fact that idra has gotten a slap on the wrist for SO MANY thing in the past -_-. but they gain your respect because of what a newcomer has done in the past? ridiculous. this entire situation is absurd considering what idra and Destiny is known for in this community. Desiny still does it on a daily basis infact.
i honestly can not stand the white knight community of reddit. i hate it with ever fiber of my soul. your that butthurt about someone that u have to dig up a screen shot that took place OVER 1 year ago and destroy a kids hopes and dreams? disgusting.
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Alex hired a guy then found out he once said something stupid, now Alex fired him and stated he doesn't have to be a neo-nazi to be racist in Alex's eyes. Alex is essentially stating to the community, he will fire anyone for something they have said or done in the past at his own discretion. Even before being part of EG, so that shit you took in your diaper might come back to haunt you. So let me ask Alex, if a caster is not completely homosexual but tried a sexual act with the same gender and the community found out years later, Will they also be fired for being different? essentially what I am saying here is, how do we the community know what is acceptable to EG before we apply for a position. Can you please list your prejudiced.
It's clear from the statement EG is discriminating against orb and a group of white people, EG has become the monster it wished to destroy. Why can't a neo-Nazi be a caster, player or able to join EG?... why must the community be funneled into a narrow band of mentality that EG wishes. Whats most shocking is, This however happened before joining EG, legal action should follow and you should be ashamed for imposing your beliefs on the community. I for one do not appreciated who I can or can't watch because they have a different political belief than EG's management, reminds me of CNN FOX... yawn.
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On March 09 2012 16:23 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:20 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:19 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him. It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic. It's a word. Words matter. Accidentally asking for red paint when you want to paint a blue sky is when words matter. This is people arbitrarily taking offence at something. If I were to arbitrarily take offence at people taking offence, who then would be in the wrong?
http://finenessandaccuracy.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/i-dont-care-if-youre-offended/
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I can't believe people complained to the sponsors directly. I'll be sure to write them a positive message ASAP.
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I actually feel the community is responsible for getting orb kicked, not EG. EG did what they had to do to retain their sponsors good will and if the community had not gone to the sponsors first and EG second ,EG might have been able to salvage this by having orb apologize and standing by him.
Oh well, I'm liking how EG handles things more and more. Much props.
Also, the people comparing orb to IdrA. If the public outcry had been the same for IdrA's language, I'm sure EG would have had to take action as well. If hundreds of people would contact EG sponsors every time IdrA said faggot on a stream he'd be in a lot more trouble.
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On March 09 2012 16:21 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:14 Heston wrote:On March 09 2012 16:07 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 16:00 Heston wrote:On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote:
I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting to usage of the word that does not follow the hateful nature of the word I mentioned. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please. We have legislation in our country against people discriminating on others on terms of race, do you think someone in the media could use the word nigger in the same context orb did and say something along the lines "Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person" would be a suitable excuse to not lose your job? Or on that matter do you think you would be able to get away with even saying nigger in any sort of context infront of the supreme court? Except this isn't someone in the media. When the incidents took place, this is some dude playing video games in his parents basement. Does that excuse the usage? No, it doesn't. Honestly, you're going to sit here and compare SC2 game chat to the supreme court? You can't say fuck in the supreme court either, are we going to start banning casters for saying fuck or shit? I don't even want to reply to this because you don't seem to understand. "Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person" This isn't at all in any way what I'm saying. You know what a curse word is right? Different people have different curse words, period. There is a world of a difference between using a word as a curse against an anonymous individual than a directed hate attack. Well what i get from your posts is that Orbs use of nigger is equivalent to any swear, but that's wrong. Orb has gotten into trouble before for using the word nigger so he knew it was wrong and did it anyway. What bothers me is you're trying to defend the context in which he used the word nigger, which honestly I'm wondering why you would use the word nigger to demean someone. As a blackman I feel Orb IS a racist for using the word nigger to try and degrade someone. I never said it wasn't wrong. It is wrong, but it's not wrong to the extent where tens of thousands of community members should be up in arms with a full fledged head hunt about it. If you take the logic from your first sentence and apply it to the second last sentence, you will see that he isn't trying to demean anyone, he's just essentially yelling bullshit at someone who pissed him off. Like I said before and what you verified in your first sentence, the use of the word nigger here, from ORBS point of view, is no different than him calling someone an asshole (or similar).
I'm pretty sure when you call someone a dumb nigger you're trying to demean them, I also think you need to read my post again O_O
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"I was offended and I have rights!"
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On March 09 2012 16:26 Cuddle wrote:
I actually feel the community is responsible for getting orb kicked, not EG. EG did what they had to do to retain their sponsors good will and if the community had not gone to the sponsors first and EG second ,EG might have been able to salvage this by having orb apologize and standing by him.
Oh well, I'm liking how EG handles things more and more. Much props.
One person with the right answer.
I doubt EG went into this with the intention to fire Orb, it was the community outlash towards their sponsers that cost him his job.
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In my eyes either this is an overreaction or lack of Idra`s punishment is underreaction. But I guess Orb is a lot less valuable than Idra to EG.
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On March 09 2012 16:22 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:10 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 16:04 BlazeFury01 wrote:On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote:
I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago. Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account? Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting. Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent. Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd. I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses. Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..." Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people. Please. The entire purpose of writing verbal rage on the computer is a " HATEFUL INTENT". It's a form of attempting to belittle your opponent which is definitely intentional. I don't see an over-reaction from the community. I see a community that wants a professional organization. Yeah, hateful intent that can be accomplished with any number of "insert here" swear words. To the less mature, nigger is equivalent to a swear word, nothing more. I see a community that lynched one of it's stand out, hard working and upcoming members over a uttering a word that had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on anyone. I also see a community that is outrageously over zealous with their missions against people and a community that follows a destructive herd mentality. That's your opinion. The word was created on pure disrespect to degrade the african american populous during slave times. I believe that holds much more weight then your common swear word; especially because the word "nigger" has a deep history whereas the others don't. Also, you said it had ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on anyone. First off, if it didn't...then why did EG let him go? Look at this thread and tell me if it didn't have an impact on "anyone". http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qlpfk/orb_gets_really_mad_when_he_loses_lol/Also, the community didn't "lynch" a hard working and upcoming member. Orb lynched himself, by not having enough maturity and self control to not use such a derogatory word. Personally, if you want to make it in life; professionalism is something that comes with it
The community did lynch him. True, he did it to himself, but it's the community that took it overboard.
People who are offended by this are hyper sensitive and unfortunately tend to be the vocal minority.
Sorry man, but nigger in slave times referring to actual black people and some dude typing it as a swear word on an internet game in 2012 aren't even remotely similar in terms of intent.
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On March 09 2012 12:50 kibeth wrote:
I actually find your post overly condescending and obnoxious, and I like EG as an organization.
It's kind of like if I stole a toy from a grocery store when I was 8. Later in life I work there, and somehow someone finds out that a decade ago I stole a 99cent toy, and I was fired. Sounds ridiculous right?
I agree with the above. It's hard, because I don't like Orb's casting style, so I'm not sad to see him gone, but I also think his dismissal is a little extreme. It does feel a little sanctimonious. The CEO spent a lot of time in his post talking about how he's never said or typed the n word, doesn't tolerate its use in his presence, studied racism in school etc. It felt like he was trying to justify dismissing Orb with this info. In my opinion, hypocrisy isn't the issue. The issue is whether the punishment fits the crime, and in this instance, I think the punishment is too extreme given the nature and circumstances of the crime.
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On March 09 2012 16:23 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 16:20 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:19 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him. It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic. It's a word. Words matter. Accidentally asking for red paint when you want to paint a blue sky is when words matter. This is people arbitrarily taking offence at something. If I were to arbitrarily take offence at people taking offence, who then would be in the wrong?
That's where you're confused. The offense is NOT arbitrary. People being offended by the word 'nigger' -- even in a playful context -- is not random at all. It's a word will a deep history.
I get offended by the sheer arrogance of white nerds that feel they need to co-opt it. For what purpose? Shits and giggles?
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I for one was never really an EG fan but now I am
Kudos to Alex for doing the right thing
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EPT
