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Active: 11903 users

Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 65

Forum Index > SC2 General
3626 CommentsPost a Reply
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.

In short, be smart.

Alex comments on Idra:


Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038

Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
March 09 2012 07:13 GMT
#1281
Really wise decision EG good call
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
MuB
Profile Joined November 2010
United States95 Posts
March 09 2012 07:13 GMT
#1282
classic american touchyness. Don't know what happen, but nerd rage is nerd rage, no need to go to extreme to punish people for a tongue that slipped...
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
March 09 2012 07:14 GMT
#1283
I read the whole (long) article, and still don't know exactly what happened. Like OK orb used racist language. But in what context? It's proving rather arduous looking. That's annoying. It was OK, he could have done better.
kusto
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation823 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 07:15:18
March 09 2012 07:14 GMT
#1284
On March 09 2012 16:12 Flobsen wrote:
whats so brave about guilty white people who need sponsor money firing a lesser known caster?

in the end it's all about the money and not the morals of a "black studies" CEO who has double standards just based on the fame of the offender.


I like your statement. Where can i contact your sponsors to let them know?
the game is the game
TheWorldToCome
Profile Joined January 2012
United States452 Posts
March 09 2012 07:14 GMT
#1285
This should be seen as a maturity lesson for the whole community - what you say on the internet has real life consequences.
Starcraft 2 was designed to have a best race. You play the worst one.
Heston
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada18 Posts
March 09 2012 07:14 GMT
#1286
On March 09 2012 16:07 jester- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 16:00 Heston wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote:
I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago.


Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account?


Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting to usage of the word that does not follow the hateful nature of the word I mentioned.

Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent.

Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd.

I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses.

Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..."

Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people.

Please.

We have legislation in our country against people discriminating on others on terms of race, do you think someone in the media could use the word nigger in the same context orb did and say something along the lines "Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person" would be a suitable excuse to not lose your job? Or on that matter do you think you would be able to get away with even saying nigger in any sort of context infront of the supreme court?



Except this isn't someone in the media. When the incidents took place, this is some dude playing video games in his parents basement. Does that excuse the usage? No, it doesn't.

Honestly, you're going to sit here and compare SC2 game chat to the supreme court? You can't say fuck in the supreme court either, are we going to start banning casters for saying fuck or shit?

I don't even want to reply to this because you don't seem to understand.

"Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person"

This isn't at all in any way what I'm saying.

You know what a curse word is right? Different people have different curse words, period. There is a world of a difference between using a word as a curse against an anonymous individual than a directed hate attack.

Well what i get from your posts is that Orbs use of nigger is equivalent to any swear, but that's wrong. Orb has gotten into trouble before for using the word nigger so he knew it was wrong and did it anyway. What bothers me is you're trying to defend the context in which he used the word nigger, which honestly I'm wondering why you would use the word nigger to demean someone. As a blackman I feel Orb IS a racist for using the word nigger to try and degrade someone.
I Know Chicken
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
March 09 2012 07:15 GMT
#1287
i would judge such an action by its intent, i mean black people call other black people "niggas" all the time, some black friends are cool with me (an asian guy) greeting them with "yo wassup nigga", yet this is markedly different from going up to a black guy you don't know and shouting "you f---ing n-----!"

other than that i find it hilarious that a bunch of white and asian guys can masquerade as a negro cs team, lol!!!
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
blamous
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States377 Posts
March 09 2012 07:15 GMT
#1288
Thanks Alex for your clear explanation. I am sad for Orb, but not because he lost his job. I think he probably deserved that, not because of what he typed, but because he tried and failed badly to cover it up. I believe we are a community in transition, and everyone wants a certain level of rawness and "flufflessness" if you will. In fact many demand it. But we are also struggling to find the balance of what is okay and not okay. For a group of people who applaud if someone says "motherfucking cocksucking buttshit bitchslappers" (dramatisation), why would anyone rationally think that the 'N' word or "f----t" would seriously be out of bounds? Is it really that far a leap? A community that largely asks its representatives to be brash and intentionally step over many mainstream lines of propriety turns around and crushes someone for overstepping one of the most incredibly vague (and few, frankly) lines that the community has 'kind of' put in place. But I really believe there has to be a little more buffer room as we settle into these more rigid lines we are (with more and more conviction) setting for ourselves. It has been said time and again that this behaviour was not new for Orb. But at the same time I have never seen or heard anything remote close to these things in Orbs public work, which I have a lot of respect for. I think Orb (and others) need a little more leeway to settle into the push and pull of what the many sides of the community are asking them to be.

I am sad for Orb though because of how this community (mostly Reddit, but here too) continue to selectively cannibalise the people who they themselves raise to prominence. I do not condone the language, but even more troubling to me was the tremendous piling on, and purposeful, malicious, even maniacal drive to destroy this young man. It was EG's responsibility to handle and they weren't even able to do that on their own... I can't even imagine the pressure that EG (not to mention Orb!) has felt over the last 24 hours or so...

Do you know who put Orb in the position to get a job with EG? You did. Fuckin cannibals.
Get YOUR games cast on NuubCast!
jester-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada547 Posts
March 09 2012 07:17 GMT
#1289
On March 09 2012 15:52 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 15:35 jester- wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:29 viticuss wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:25 Argolis wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:20 viticuss wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:19 sharky246 wrote:
how come idra gets exemption from offensive language but not orb?


n--r != faggot. If you're non-american you may not understand but thats the plain truth of it here.


You know you can type the whole word ou, especially if you are gonna type out the word faggot right next to it.. Saying shit like n---r is rather pointless don't you think? Everyone knows what word you are saying yet you somehow try to hide it. The reason the word nigger has so much "power" is because of people like you who treat the word like it's the most offensive word in the worldm when it has no qualities that make it any different than any other slur or insult. it's an offensive word. Stop treating it like it's any different than the rest of them.


That's so phony. We only feel like we have lisence to somehow unempower it because we are on a anonymous predominantly white forum.

It's a tired example but if it's really "just an insult" then I suggest you head to the south side of chicago, hang out down on 90th street and call someone the n word when they do something stupid.

Quit pretending we can just hide behind the internet our whole lives.


You don't understand the situation then, period. There is a CLEAR and EASILY understandable difference between calling some anonymous person on the internet a nigger versus going to the south side of chicago, walking up to someone and calling them a nigger.

We aren't hiding behind anything, some people here just realize that there is a difference between hateful intent and nerd raging.


Did you seriously just write that? lol stupid...

Anyway, there's no difference between when and where your using the word. The words sole creation was based on disrespect; regarding a person of a certain race. There are no variations to the word once you add the "er". There's only one definition for the word and overtime people have tried to make up definitions for it so they could have an excuse for using it when their inner racist comes out (ex: Destiny).

Some people say the word could be to describe someone who is disrespectful regardless of race. But, I highly doubt when enslaved african-americans were labeled such a radical name that they earned it by being "disrespectful". It's a pure hate word and I encourage anybody using it to walk up to somebody who's african american and say it to their face.

User was warned for this post


Except there is a difference, plain and simple.

In one situation, you are demeaning a black person by using a derogatory term you know is offensive towards that individual.

In the other, you are typing out strings of text to someone sitting at a computer who's identity is unknown to you - and is likely sitting there laughing at how mad you are.


Arise, chicken sandwich.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
March 09 2012 07:17 GMT
#1290
So any bets on who the Reddit Lynch mob will take down next?
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
March 09 2012 07:17 GMT
#1291
Well considering casting is sort of a spotlight job, wich require you to be profesional, and that does not change while streaming some random ladder games. Many now will not look the same at Orb then they used to, and even use it against him.

Same would go for players, it's rather a shame EG itself has one of those players.
So it makes this topic a rather double edged sword, you judge on others yet perhaps have a look at your own ?
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 07:19:29
March 09 2012 07:17 GMT
#1292
On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him.



Actually, the simplest solution is for people that use offensive words to grow up and not use offensive words needlessly.

The hope that you can somehow convince the world not be offended by a word like 'nigger', as in one day all the Black people in the world will wake up and decide to not find its derogatory use as anything less then ignorant and inflammatory just so you can have 'the right' to use it without getting slapped upside the head -- is beyond naive.

It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic.
SedativeDev
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia316 Posts
March 09 2012 07:18 GMT
#1293
who the hell is such a d..k for complaining this to sponsors of EG. U are literally killing e sports!
Share_The_Land
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada152 Posts
March 09 2012 07:19 GMT
#1294
I am actually incredibly shocked by this entire incident for several reasons, the first of which being that I will no longer get to see a caster of Orb's caliber at EG currently.

I won't go on too long but I really believe this to be an incredibly large overreaction based on the facts posted in the OP. I am by no means a fan of racial slurs in any way, but I am ALWAYS of the opinion that in cases such as this the public is far too quick to vilify somebody and attempt to disrupt their livelihood over what is in reality just a word. Alex himself says he doesn't believe Orb to be a racist, so if this is the case then why make such a big deal over the fact he used this word on the ladder in a rage situation. Maybe he just needs to be educated on the fact that there are many other words to use when raging that AREN'T racist but yea whatever. Just silly IMO
"Turns out he's a former Counterstrike pro and grabs his ak!" - Tasteless
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
March 09 2012 07:19 GMT
#1295
On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him.


It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic.


It's a word.
bellz
Profile Joined June 2010
United States20 Posts
March 09 2012 07:19 GMT
#1296
I also come from the CS community and I remember when the uneXpected scandal came to light. I was pretty young at the time and was one of the many players that brushed it aside as a hilarious prank. Looking back, I'm stunned how little attention the racist aspect of the scandal received. Rather than being offended that five white kids pretended to be five inner-city black guys (and I remember their league profiles even had fake pictures of young tough-looking black adults) most of the community was offended that the players got away with multi-clanning in CAL.

After playing CS for about six years, I think it's pretty remarkable how mature the SC2 community is and how well the pro-teams and community figures police their own and each other's behavior most of the time. I think the running debate over the level of maturity in the SC community is healthy, but few people just how bad it could be without witnessing the self-destructive behavior of the CS community and just the absurd level of condemnable behavior at every level of competition.

When I started playing SC2 and watching streams during the beta, I recall being confused listening to casters praise players for being well-mannered and learning that Idra was generally considered a bad mannered player for--gasp--not typing gg after losing. In CS, I can't remember one instance when a player was praised by anyone for his manners. If Idra played CS, he would have been considered a saint. The CS community was like the Lord of the Flies. Nerd ragers, trolls and e-thugs were simply commonplace. Most scrims and matches started and ended as a flame war between the teams in-game and on mIRC. Since getting away with hacking was easy, there was absolutely no trust between teams or recognition of a players skill unless it was backed up with LAN results (even then, quite a few pros with big LAN accomplishments were caught or widely suspected of hacking online).

It's nice to see that the pro-teams are willing to set standards of acceptable behavior for their players and staff.


Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
March 09 2012 07:20 GMT
#1297
On March 09 2012 16:19 branflakes14 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 16:17 Defacer wrote:
On March 09 2012 16:08 branflakes14 wrote:
The simplest solution is to stop being offended by words and grow up. Your post comes across to me as the kind of politically correct greywash that's stripping national identity from Europe. I don't agree at all with the decision to dismiss him.


It's self-centered, arrogant, juvenile and moronic.


It's a word.


Words matter.
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 10:48:22
March 09 2012 07:20 GMT
#1298
On March 09 2012 16:18 SedativeDev wrote:
who the hell is such a d..k for complaining this to sponsors of EG. U are literally killing e sports!


Teams love you to tell there sponsors they are awsome, so why should you not be able to complain either ? (if it is valid ofc wich in this situation i do not agree on)
jester-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada547 Posts
March 09 2012 07:21 GMT
#1299
On March 09 2012 16:14 Heston wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 16:07 jester- wrote:
On March 09 2012 16:00 Heston wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:55 jester- wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:44 JackDT wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:32 jester- wrote:
I'm honestly taken aback by how offended everyone appears to be over a word that lost it's true, hateful meaning to 95% of the worlds population decades ago.


Given that you've seen evidence of many people being offended, will you revise your estimate that 95% of the worlds population lost the hateful meaning decades ago and adjust future usage to take this into account?


Nope, because every single offended person is knee jerk over reacting to usage of the word that does not follow the hateful nature of the word I mentioned.

Orb finding out the guy he's playing is black and proceeding to throw out derogatory terms as a result? Yeah, that's racism and using the word with hateful intent.

Orb nerd raging and tossing out random curses before walking away from his computer? That's just a pissed off nerd.

I bet you for every time he said the word nigger, he said the word faggot or dip shit or fuck face or something similar a hundred times. It's not a matter of trying to insult or demean black people, it's just a person getting pissed and throwing out curses.

Ever heard someone hit themselves on the finger with a hammer (or similar situation) and yell out; "FUCKING COCK SUCKING..."

Oh call the reddit police, he's demeaning gay people.

Please.

We have legislation in our country against people discriminating on others on terms of race, do you think someone in the media could use the word nigger in the same context orb did and say something along the lines "Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person" would be a suitable excuse to not lose your job? Or on that matter do you think you would be able to get away with even saying nigger in any sort of context infront of the supreme court?



Except this isn't someone in the media. When the incidents took place, this is some dude playing video games in his parents basement. Does that excuse the usage? No, it doesn't.

Honestly, you're going to sit here and compare SC2 game chat to the supreme court? You can't say fuck in the supreme court either, are we going to start banning casters for saying fuck or shit?

I don't even want to reply to this because you don't seem to understand.

"Oh by dumb nigger I only meant dumb person"

This isn't at all in any way what I'm saying.

You know what a curse word is right? Different people have different curse words, period. There is a world of a difference between using a word as a curse against an anonymous individual than a directed hate attack.

Well what i get from your posts is that Orbs use of nigger is equivalent to any swear, but that's wrong. Orb has gotten into trouble before for using the word nigger so he knew it was wrong and did it anyway. What bothers me is you're trying to defend the context in which he used the word nigger, which honestly I'm wondering why you would use the word nigger to demean someone. As a blackman I feel Orb IS a racist for using the word nigger to try and degrade someone.


I never said it wasn't wrong. It is wrong, but it's not wrong to the extent where tens of thousands of community members should be up in arms with a full fledged head hunt about it.

If you take the logic from your first sentence and apply it to the second last sentence, you will see that he isn't trying to demean anyone, he's just essentially yelling bullshit at someone who pissed him off. Like I said before and what you verified in your first sentence, the use of the word nigger here, from ORBS point of view, is no different than him calling someone an asshole (or similar).
Arise, chicken sandwich.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
March 09 2012 07:21 GMT
#1300
Thank you for the statement. While I don't necessarily agree with the decision, I understand that it was inevitable given the amount of community outcry. A rather unfortunate situation, but I hope orb continues casting.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
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