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On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf.
Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes.
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On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes.
That's not SO bad if they're protoss...
EDIT: nvm, you were talking about zerg xD
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Mostly in TvT I end up losing what macro advantage I have to either getting dropped, or engaging their tanks badly, or not dealing with banshees or reapers properly. Against Zerg and Protoss, there's just no earlygame harassment options for them, so its easier for me to take the macro lead.
Banelings can be defeated by throwing enough marines at them, for Colossi you just need to add some Vikings to the marine ball, infestors and templar require micro that most silver players don't seem to have.
But no, in TvT there's usually no window of opportunity. In the earlygame a bunker or fast tank plus marines can stop an MM push. If you wait till later, a decent marine/tank/viking army will murder a force much greater in size if not handled well.
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On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes.
http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt
6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank.
8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources.
10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources.
The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva.
Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has.
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The good news is: I just racked up my second-ever win.
The bad news: I'm pretty sure it was a pity resignation. My base was crawling with Protoss, all my units were dead, and before I could so much as finish typing "gg," the "Victory!" window came up.
Maybe I've been going about this the wrong way. If I flounder around just a little more, I could ride this thing to Silver.
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On March 08 2012 20:57 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 19:27 Gheed wrote:On March 08 2012 17:59 gn1k wrote:
I think lots of people who used to be in bronze have stopped playing. So people that still play who are in bronze are a lot better than they used to be. No, they aren't. Sure they are. Today's gold league is where platinum or better were in early season 1. However, that doesn't mean that they have a chance of beating today's platinum and up players. From how matchmaking has gone for the last couple seasons in gold and platinum, I have the feeling that what's really happened is that the silver through platinum range has compressed quite a bit, so high silver and low platinum are pretty close. I say this because lately normal MMR fluctuations through winning and losing streaks have matched me, a mid-gold to low plat player depending on when, against platinum players (when I'm doing well) and silver players (when doing badly) even though I don't really have long good or bad streaks. As for the OP, it's certainly possible to play a lot and learn a lot about the game and not get out of bronze. My own experience is that taking a step back and practicing macro can help.
You are correct on that. I've been playing a lot lately. I was mid to low silver. Once I got to the top of my division I was getting pitted against a range of players from high silvers (like myself) all the way up to lower-mid platinum players. ( Now I'm a high gold :D )
I though disagree with those who say you must use a build order to get better. That is only part of it; as macro (as some have said) is super important. I don't care what build order you use, if you can't keep up with the timing of things, your units won't be on the field in time and you'll get rolled over. I switched to Zerg two months ago and have yet to use a build order and as I said earlier, I've gone from low-mid silver to high in my gold division (going up and down from 5-12ish spots). My macro feels real nice as I've been working on it soley since my switch to Z. Two months ago I'd of gotten ROFLstomped by a low gold and now in custom 1v1's I've actually beaten a couple of platinums.
But, once again, that's only part of the solution. Now that my macro is decent I will add some build orders to my game and I'm fairly certain I will get Platinum and if I really play I'm sure I'll get to Diamond.
I just don't think it's one of the other. :D
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On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has.
How can people refute to me that all bronze players do is sit in their base when replays like this exist?
All the zerg does is sit there in his base. He blindly makes some roaches and zerglings and sits there with them. He then techs to mutas, makes 10 of them, and sits there with them. The only information he has by the 10 minute mark is where the terran is, and that only because an overlord has seen a refinery. Eventually, he scouts his terran opponent with changelings, but they never get into his opponent's base and essentially don't tell him anything beyond that he has an expansion.
Meanwhile, the terran sits in his base doing nothing, blindly making 2 bunkers. He forgets to keep making SCVs at 26 and along the way there were intermittent gaps. Then after those are done, he refuses to move out until he has some more bunkers on the low ground. He sieges up some tanks for good measure.
He trains more SCVs at his natural, and later his main. When he tries to maynard SCVs to his expansion, he forgets that his depots are raised and a dozen workers get stuck on a cliff and stare down at the minerals, despite the terran not moving out at all and the game warning him he has 10 workers idle. Somehow, though, he has been keeping economic pace with a zerg he hasn't attacked in the slightest.
Meanwhile, the zerg player has 2 extra queens with 200 energy he made for absolutely no reason (or maybe there was a reason and he forgot), one injecting queen with 123 energy, and one with 95. Only 2 creep tumors were made, and he made them inside his main and never spread them. He is somehow down 37 supply to the terran, despite him having applied no pressure.
The zerg eventually attacks by morphing the dozen corruptors, finally surpassing the terran in supply, that have been sitting over the chasm on the bottom of the map into brood lords and attacking with them and the mutas he never used. The terran, having never scouted beyond scanning, is unprepared and dies. He doesn't even attempt to use the thor he made. He loses his third, tries to scurry around with some marines and a few vikings he desperately made, and ggs.
Not only were the zerg's injects not perfect, but they weren't even germane to the game. Your injects don't bloody matter when all you do is sit there and don't get attacked.
By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh?
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On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has.
At 10 mins, sure he's got 22 and 19 energy on the two inject queens, but at least 30 seconds left on the larva. That puts him at like ~35 energy for both queens once the larva pops. All this considering ALL he's been doing all game is looking at his base and injecting. So, his injects are sub-par, even when he's practically doing nothing else.
At 10:30 when all the larva pops, 21 idle larva off 2 bases. 1k minerals and 1k gas, 62 food. Yeah, macro's the problem here.
No harass, no pressure, pointless scouting, no nothing. You better well have damn near perfect injects, which this zerg doesn't.
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On March 27 2012 08:22 PeanutsNJam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has. At 10 mins, sure he's got 22 and 19 energy on the two inject queens, but at least 30 seconds left on the larva. That puts him at like ~35 energy for both queens once the larva pops. All this considering ALL he's been doing all game is looking at his base and injecting. So, his injects are sub-par, even when he's practically doing nothing else. At 10:30 when all the larva pops, 21 idle larva off 2 bases. 1k minerals and 1k gas, 62 food. Yeah, macro's the problem here. No harass, no pressure, pointless scouting, no nothing. You better well have damn near perfect injects, which this zerg doesn't.
This situation is exactly to the point that higher level people have been saying. Bronze level player thinks macro is not the problem because he thinks "I'm hitting my injects herp derp" when actually... it is...
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On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has. How can people refute to me that all bronze players do is sit in their base when replays like this exist? All the zerg does is sit there in his base. He blindly makes some roaches and zerglings and sits there with them. He then techs to mutas, makes 10 of them, and sits there with them. The only information he has by the 10 minute mark is where the terran is, and that only because an overlord has seen a refinery. Eventually, he scouts his terran opponent with changelings, but they never get into his opponent's base and essentially don't tell him anything beyond that he has an expansion. Meanwhile, the terran sits in his base doing nothing, blindly making 2 bunkers. He forgets to keep making SCVs at 26 and along the way there were intermittent gaps. Then after those are done, he refuses to move out until he has some more bunkers on the low ground. He sieges up some tanks for good measure. He trains more SCVs at his natural, and later his main. When he tries to maynard SCVs to his expansion, he forgets that his depots are raised and a dozen workers get stuck on a cliff and stare down at the minerals, despite the terran not moving out at all and the game warning him he has 10 workers idle. Somehow, though, he has been keeping economic pace with a zerg he hasn't attacked in the slightest. Meanwhile, the zerg player has 2 extra queens with 200 energy he made for absolutely no reason (or maybe there was a reason and he forgot), one injecting queen with 123 energy, and one with 95. Only 2 creep tumors were made, and he made them inside his main and never spread them. He is somehow down 37 supply to the terran, despite him having applied no pressure. The zerg eventually attacks by morphing the dozen corruptors, finally surpassing the terran in supply, that have been sitting over the chasm on the bottom of the map into brood lords and attacking with them and the mutas he never used. The terran, having never scouted beyond scanning, is unprepared and dies. He doesn't even attempt to use the thor he made. He loses his third, tries to scurry around with some marines and a few vikings he desperately made, and ggs. Not only were the zerg's injects not perfect, but they weren't even germane to the game. Your injects don't bloody matter when all you do is sit there and don't get attacked. By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh?
When you pick and choose games like this, sure.
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On March 27 2012 09:05 DarK[A] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has. How can people refute to me that all bronze players do is sit in their base when replays like this exist? All the zerg does is sit there in his base. He blindly makes some roaches and zerglings and sits there with them. He then techs to mutas, makes 10 of them, and sits there with them. The only information he has by the 10 minute mark is where the terran is, and that only because an overlord has seen a refinery. Eventually, he scouts his terran opponent with changelings, but they never get into his opponent's base and essentially don't tell him anything beyond that he has an expansion. Meanwhile, the terran sits in his base doing nothing, blindly making 2 bunkers. He forgets to keep making SCVs at 26 and along the way there were intermittent gaps. Then after those are done, he refuses to move out until he has some more bunkers on the low ground. He sieges up some tanks for good measure. He trains more SCVs at his natural, and later his main. When he tries to maynard SCVs to his expansion, he forgets that his depots are raised and a dozen workers get stuck on a cliff and stare down at the minerals, despite the terran not moving out at all and the game warning him he has 10 workers idle. Somehow, though, he has been keeping economic pace with a zerg he hasn't attacked in the slightest. Meanwhile, the zerg player has 2 extra queens with 200 energy he made for absolutely no reason (or maybe there was a reason and he forgot), one injecting queen with 123 energy, and one with 95. Only 2 creep tumors were made, and he made them inside his main and never spread them. He is somehow down 37 supply to the terran, despite him having applied no pressure. The zerg eventually attacks by morphing the dozen corruptors, finally surpassing the terran in supply, that have been sitting over the chasm on the bottom of the map into brood lords and attacking with them and the mutas he never used. The terran, having never scouted beyond scanning, is unprepared and dies. He doesn't even attempt to use the thor he made. He loses his third, tries to scurry around with some marines and a few vikings he desperately made, and ggs. Not only were the zerg's injects not perfect, but they weren't even germane to the game. Your injects don't bloody matter when all you do is sit there and don't get attacked. By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh? When you pick and choose games like this, sure.
Please post a rep of a game where you feel the mechanics of the Bronze level player were beyond his league. The original rep was posted by someone claiming that Bronze mechanics were pretty good.
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On March 27 2012 09:16 GloPikkle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 09:05 DarK[A] wrote:On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:On March 27 2012 07:14 Monkeyballs25 wrote:On March 27 2012 06:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Show me a game of a bronzie in +10 mins of gameplay without more than 27 energy on any queen, and I will literally eat my shit. Nobody in bronze hits all their injects and has no idle larva. Obv can't be a high league smurf. Bronzies are not nailing their injects. I've watch so many replays where bronzies say they keep their money low but have 500+ at like 6 minutes. http://replayfu.com/download/XPBxJt6:00 29 energy , 6 spare larva, 344 resources in the bank. 8:03 23 and 31 energy, 5 spare larva, 404 resources. 10:00 23 and 20 energy, 14 spare larva, 1600 resources. The injects are damn near perfect. Most of the resources banked is gas, which is definitely a problem though since its restricting his worker count and making it hard to spend all the larva. Hitting injects is overrated if you've got your gas timings wrong like this guy has. How can people refute to me that all bronze players do is sit in their base when replays like this exist? All the zerg does is sit there in his base. He blindly makes some roaches and zerglings and sits there with them. He then techs to mutas, makes 10 of them, and sits there with them. The only information he has by the 10 minute mark is where the terran is, and that only because an overlord has seen a refinery. Eventually, he scouts his terran opponent with changelings, but they never get into his opponent's base and essentially don't tell him anything beyond that he has an expansion. Meanwhile, the terran sits in his base doing nothing, blindly making 2 bunkers. He forgets to keep making SCVs at 26 and along the way there were intermittent gaps. Then after those are done, he refuses to move out until he has some more bunkers on the low ground. He sieges up some tanks for good measure. He trains more SCVs at his natural, and later his main. When he tries to maynard SCVs to his expansion, he forgets that his depots are raised and a dozen workers get stuck on a cliff and stare down at the minerals, despite the terran not moving out at all and the game warning him he has 10 workers idle. Somehow, though, he has been keeping economic pace with a zerg he hasn't attacked in the slightest. Meanwhile, the zerg player has 2 extra queens with 200 energy he made for absolutely no reason (or maybe there was a reason and he forgot), one injecting queen with 123 energy, and one with 95. Only 2 creep tumors were made, and he made them inside his main and never spread them. He is somehow down 37 supply to the terran, despite him having applied no pressure. The zerg eventually attacks by morphing the dozen corruptors, finally surpassing the terran in supply, that have been sitting over the chasm on the bottom of the map into brood lords and attacking with them and the mutas he never used. The terran, having never scouted beyond scanning, is unprepared and dies. He doesn't even attempt to use the thor he made. He loses his third, tries to scurry around with some marines and a few vikings he desperately made, and ggs. Not only were the zerg's injects not perfect, but they weren't even germane to the game. Your injects don't bloody matter when all you do is sit there and don't get attacked. By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh? When you pick and choose games like this, sure. Please post a rep of a game where you feel the mechanics of the Bronze level player were beyond his league. The original rep was posted by someone claiming that Bronze mechanics were pretty good.
I actually just got promoted to silver :D
First time playing 1v1 in 13 weeks according to my profile ಠ_ಠ
Won a ZvT for my S6 "placement match" and placed into Bronze again, then won a ZvZ and got promoted. I'll look through those replays to see what went on. I feel like the ZvT was really messy, probably due to being the first match in a looongggg time.
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On March 27 2012 07:03 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Mostly in TvT I end up losing what macro advantage I have to either getting dropped, or engaging their tanks badly, or not dealing with banshees or reapers properly. Against Zerg and Protoss, there's just no earlygame harassment options for them, so its easier for me to take the macro lead.
Banelings can be defeated by throwing enough marines at them, for Colossi you just need to add some Vikings to the marine ball, infestors and templar require micro that most silver players don't seem to have.
But no, in TvT there's usually no window of opportunity. In the earlygame a bunker or fast tank plus marines can stop an MM push. If you wait till later, a decent marine/tank/viking army will murder a force much greater in size if not handled well.
you need to surround his army with your marines (and a few marauders if you can)
keep a safe distance
and then stim inside from all angles (like you would do with zerglings)
you need to build ccs and to scan. you must know where his tanks are. it's even better if you push when he unsiege his tanks but with enough macro advantage you should be able to go in even with tanks up
also if there are only 1-3 tanks and not that many marines shield marines nostim will eat up the tanks provided a good enough concave
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On March 27 2012 00:58 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
They'll win more games, they probably won't win every game. Particularly as Zerg, where its easy to have the wrong stuff for what your opponent is doing.
Its statements like this that are particularly frustrating for newbies, because as soon as they do nail their injects and lose a game, they'll assume high level players who dispense such advice are full of shit.
Nailing injects isn't something you do in bronze, it's something you do at high diamond/low masters.
The inbetween part is you improving at your injects and a bunch of other stuff.
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On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:How can people refute to me that all bronze players do is sit in their base when replays like this exist?
Aside from the obvious issue that one game can't prove that all games have the same problem...
I've been one of the people making very clear I think that the lower leagues have improved, but that doesn't mean I disagree with you on this.
I would say that the key distinguishing factor of bronze level play (excluding the people who 6-pool or worker rush every game) always was and is now that players sit back, build stuff, and do nothing. Players who learn to move out and attack get to silver. Congratulations, achievement unlocked, etc.
I think to some extent the advice to "just work on macro, that will get you to Platinum" reinforces that, because it causes a less-experienced player to think "They're saying just build more, I am not comfortable attacking anyway, win!!!" The truth is that it reflects a total lack of knowledge about when to move out or what the effect will be. I do think this is a counterexample to the statement that "strategy doesn't matter," because knowing the importance of getting over one's fear and attacking earlier than they're comfortable is a necessary step to starting to learn timings, and arguably that you have to attack sometime is the most basic strategic lesson in the game.
None of that means, though, that bronze players aren't building somewhat more than they used to, attacking a little bit earlier, getting to a third or fourth base instead of just two by 20 minutes, etc. I'd argue that these are extremely meaningful improvements in a bronze vs. bronze matchup that look completely meaningless to someone like you or even me faced with such an opponent.
I'd also put out there that the bronze players who are most strenuously objecting to your characterizations of their play probably have MMRs in the silver range already.
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On March 27 2012 09:16 GloPikkle wrote:
Please post a rep of a game where you feel the mechanics of the Bronze level player were beyond his league. The original rep was posted by someone claiming that Bronze mechanics were pretty good.
I'd more characterize the argument as being that different bronze players are held back by different problems, so categorical statements that things like injects are always completely horrible may have a counterexample out there somewhere. It wasn't posted to show how awesome bronze mechanics are. 
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i got out of bronze when i stopped listening to the macrobots. so i'd say that macro is not an issue for a number of players down there. Anyway as long as one have fun any division is fine and using rank is quite a silly way to deride casual players.
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On March 27 2012 17:54 freakhill wrote:
i got out of bronze when i stopped listening to the macrobots. so i'd say that macro is not an issue for a number of players down there.
Thing is, for any bronze player in the game, macro's the most important thing they have to learn to do well. The problem is that the advice to "focus on macro" kind of elides the point that there are other essential skills they need to learn too, like how to decide (or in extreme cases whether to decide) when to go attack.
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On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:
(...)
By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh?
Yes, I would agree. It would take a comprehensive study to discredit the following logic: as the game get's older, the players in general become more skilled at it. So the leagues have improved. You can rant on about larva injects all night long, but unless you refrain from injecting all together it is hardly the most game changing factor.
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On March 27 2012 18:11 Zythius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 08:00 Gheed wrote:
(...)
By the way: the terran is silver and the zerg was silver in season 5, so maybe we need to expand the definition of bronze to include silver players as well. The leagues sure are improving over time, eh?
Yes, I would agree. It would take a comprehensive study to discredit the following logic: as the game get's older, the players in general become more skilled at it. So the leagues have improved. You can rant on about larva injects all night long, but unless you refrain from injecting all together it is hardly the most game changing factor.
Queen/CC/Nexus energy, creep spread, worker count, and "keeping your money low" are game changing factors. It's called macro. Arguably, nexus energy is the least important.
It also doesn't change the fact that you can [poorly] 4gate your way comfortably into gold. It worked in Season 1, it'll work in Season 9999.
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EPT
