EPTBronze level players - Page 17
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
interpolarity
United States38 Posts
| ||
|
interpolarity
United States38 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:37 dUTtrOACh wrote: A few people I know are still in the bronze league. To their credit, they're still playing and having fun, unlike a lot of inactive higher ranked players I know who obsess over their ranks. I know that I've definitely quit more than once worried about current ranking. I admire those players willing to screw around. I also genuinely believe that if a person does not possess any physical or mental disabilities and has the desire to leave bronze league, it is possible. | ||
|
iD.NicKy
France767 Posts
I was D+ish on iccup and somewhat acheived B-. It's all about will and mental state, play to progress and do better than your best not to win. Change your gameplay, your habits, don't be lazy ingame. Focus more on understanding the flow of the game and the macro than the micro. If you're happy in bronze, you won't get out of bronze ! I was in top diamond for a while and decided to join Master.. here i am ! | ||
|
Amlitzer
United States471 Posts
| ||
|
Pzar
New Zealand46 Posts
On March 13 2012 05:58 Lysenko wrote: Most of the players at this level probably play a few games a month. Even up to gold it's rare to find someone playing more than ~15games/month average. | ||
|
LightSpectra
United States1544 Posts
On March 12 2012 22:28 Monkeyballs25 wrote: Care to post a replay or two? 40-60 APM seems awfully low to get much done on anything over 1 base. And yes, if you got into Masters with an hour a week of gameplay, you've got some "natural" talent that was either there from the beginning, or that you developed through some other activity when you were younger. Sure, here's the last two ladder games I played. It was off my protoss account (which I'm high Diamond in, quickly moving towards Masters). http://drop.sc/131099 http://drop.sc/131100 | ||
|
Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
http://drop.sc/131102 And here's a loss, to demonstrate that I'm not stroking my ego: http://drop.sc/131111 I haven't really analyzed these replays in depth -- they're my most recent win and loss. However, they're pretty typical for how wins and losses go for me, mostly one-sided. Edit: Both these opponents were gold. I think if you compared either of these games to the stuff going on in gold league in S1, you'd see something very different. | ||
|
writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:26 Azzur wrote: The reason why bronze-level players are looked down upon is elitism: anyone who is worse that yourself is a scrub whilst anyone better is a no-lifer who plays too much. The only bronze players that are looked down upon here are the ones who think that they are good and try to blame others for their mistakes. Haven't you noticed that every bronze player claiming that he can macro has never (and probably will never) posted a replay? This is why I cannot respect the OP. Resigning yourself to be in bronze, really? Anyone who has even an ounce of determination can get out of bronze. Now I suppose I am going to get slammed on the grounds that "OMG WHO CARES AS LONG AS HE'S HAVING FUN?" If you are content with your skill level and are having fun, that's fine. But please don't delude yourself; you are in bronze because you are bad, and if you made the effort to improve your mechanics you would easily climb out of bronze. | ||
|
Darkomicron
Netherlands216 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:45 Vallz wrote: Step 1 : Find a tactic to carry yourself out of bronze. Preferably some tactic that requires good timing because timing always helps! Step 2 : Reach gold / platinum level Step 3 : Now you have realised it doesn't work 80% time anymore, start to learn play properly. Step 4 : ??????????? Step 5 : Profit That's basically how I reached Masters from Bronze :D This is actually quite true. I'm current a high master player but I never had anything with RTS games, when I started playing I started off in bronze (beta, so silver in current setting). I didn't really know what to do. Went with random and started doing stuff. I think I got promoted with that. So apparently I was doing something good... When I settled for protoss all I did was 4gate for tons of games. Got me up a few leagues. Then I went for 3gate robo, that got me up to diamond (the highest league back then, before master/grandmaster were implemented). Then I hit a point that everyone was expanding and stopping my push. So I had to change my build to expand too and I kept evolving my play like that. Play with something till it no longer works. | ||
|
Apz
Sweden9 Posts
But got its reasons. Bought the game at release, and up to last weekend last loging was the release date. But, being an active wow player things always comes up, and last weekend some i play with asked if anyone had SC2 and I went, wtf, lets patch and see if its fun. After an hour patching I was ready=)....to get completly smashed in the initial 5 games. No surprise there really. But, beign as I am, if I suck at something I cant give it up until I stopped sucking at it, so obviously......I continued to be smashed. Ok, well, I think I need some basic ideas about how to do stuff, not played any rts since like. So, started to google. This is where much of discussions about new players go wrong tho. Normally its something like: Find a build, do x do y, if he do x do y. However, as a new player, I ahve no idea about abbrevations, which makes me lost or not fully understand. Most that replies have been playing for so long that they take things for granted. Some things u can guess, like macro/micro, and other u can at best guess. Not having any knowledge is the problem. I'm getting old, so i got lots of patience, but can see younger new players just give up, and that is not good for the game at all. There will always be people quitting, which means new blood is always needed for a game not to get forgotten. Ive read thru all the posts in this thread. I'm not 100% sure how the divisions of the ladder is divided, but someone said it was 20% bronze. Which means that if people quit, and I guess that hell of a lot people quit since release, its just normal that bronze is harder then it was back then. Same goes for all above. The more people at higher evolve their gameplay, the more the ones below need to evolve theirs to get up. And ofc if its 20%, and mostly lower people dropping out, the divisions above will ahve to have people drop down. But ofc, bronze will always ahve the widest gap between their best and their worst. @op Its nice that u are happy where u are. As long as u enjoy the game I cant see anyhting wrong with it. The MMR is there for a reason, and that is to make it enjoyable for players no matter where on the ladder they are. Personally I need more research, maybe decide which race to play (terran is nice, but protoss got lazors), and then learn some basics. I will ofcourse try to climb the ladder in time, but tbh, if I get stuck somewhere in bronze but still winning 50% of teh games while enjoying the game, I wont mind much. Will hurt my giant ego some maybe, but sometimes that might be necessary^^ PS. If there is any player that wants to help out, gimme a shout | ||
|
interpolarity
United States38 Posts
I went through about the first 16 minutes of your first replay and felt it was enough to pick out a few major criticisms of your play. Remedying these will definitely streamline your playstyle and should, in theory, put you back into plat league. First off, your build revolved around hatch ->gas-> pool. Against protoss this isn't really a bad build, assuming you plan on doing something with the gas. Commonly ling speed/ Roach ling pressure/all-in come to mind. What I noticed, however, is that you either forgot or never planned on doing anything with this gas, and it heavily hindered your abilities to drone and saturate effectively early game. One thing I must applaud you on, however, is your initiative to place your overlord in an optimal scouting zone. However, you completely misused scouting information. Your overlord saw that he was just placing his cybernetics, therefore the possibility of warpgate pressure was far in the future. Having lings on the watchtowers/ poking his front, should have given you enough warning/ evidence that he was not going to be zealot rushing you either, therefore the spine crawlers placed on your natural were completely unwarranted. At one point, I recall seeing 32-35 drones on minerals on your main. Please learn to rally workers to your 3rd or manually transfer them to not waste mining potential. Lastly, checking your APM you definitely seem to have speed enough to be moving overlords away from phoenixes to your spore crawler defended main, yet you just move your camera to the phoenixes and stare at them. I assume you upgraded overlord speed in order to move them, so I don't understand what exactly happened here. Nerves get the best of us, and I would assume this was the case although I really have no idea. Blindly making roaches to crash into a protoss is also kinda 1/2 thinking in the right direction. You need more ground intel poking around before committing so many resources. Also boggled me how you didnt dedicate any resources into counter air units, and had continued to build spine crawlers. All in all tl;dr version 1.) have a game plan with your gas 2.) split your drones across bases better 3.) accurately use data from your scouting 4.) more active scouting after OV scout I think working on these 4 alone should keep you busy in the meantime and reap you good benefits. Good luck in your endeavors back to plat league! | ||
|
Eiaco
170 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:20 IstgG wrote: im a bronze level zerg in SEA. ive played over 500 games as zerg. all in bronze. i hear alot of people say "find one build and refine until perfect" it doesnt work like that. these days i just try and 15 Hatch 14 Gas 14 Gas ??????? Win/Lose I am good with zerg macro: Queens,Upgrades,Teching but i am just at the state that im bronze and will never get out. i play +2 hours a day and nothing gets acheived. i enjoy this game (most the time) and am not going to quit when going through a bad phase HELP Your build makes literally no sense. Why did you take 2 gases after Hatchery, there is literally no reason to do this what so ever. Try this 9-overlord 14-gas 14-pool 16-overlord when spawning pool finished get ling speed and take drones out of gas 21- hatchery | ||
|
Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:49 freakhill wrote: You will lose 50% of your matches once you reach your stable point. The ladder is built in this intent. The only way you have to escape this phenomenon is to become a (very?)high master/GM/Pro (good enough to reach the MMR ceiling) and that is pretty much impossible for the extreme vast majority of SC2 players. An accretion of "I just know" and lack of arguments... Moreover I sadly overlooked the fact that many united states people are obsessed with productivity... No point in going on since the path we walk on lead to full frontal cultural clash. That stable point can be pushed back through continual improvement is what I am positing, not that it can be indefinitely postponed. It's not "just I know." Who are you to discount the experiences of the many, many people I have been in contact with? Hundreds of people saying the same thing. Nationality has nothing to do with it, and if it did, then the States would be a bad example as it is full of lazy bums unwilling to rise to any occasion. You may not agree with what I posit, and if you want me to provide explicit quotations from a few of the people I can do that as evidence, as long as you also provide some. I don't see you with any actual argument besides That people are different an like different things-they can, but the overlap suggests otherwise in my opinion. While everyone brings something unique to the table, there is nothing new under the sun, and they are less unique than they want to believe, I am not exempt. | ||
|
Takaria83
Netherlands2 Posts
Iam Top 8 silver, and went early CC i only misplaced my bunker after the rax! Then he trolled me for being a noob, i knew he was goin 2 proxy rax or go 3 rax on my ass. But He actually go for 4 RAX some kind of TLO style  But tell me Honestly, who is the noob me or him, cause i dont find a early CC a noobish style!(its more of a challenge 8 out of 10 games i can defend it) Btw i got 107 wins XD in the new season and i really want 2 go 2 gold, cause i beat gold all the time. Even every platinum Matchup.Need sum advice! I can post sum games! | ||
|
Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:04 LightSpectra wrote: Sure, here's the last two ladder games I played. It was off my protoss account (which I'm high Diamond in, quickly moving towards Masters). http://drop.sc/131099 http://drop.sc/131100 Cheers. You're definitely a lot faster than your average APM would suggest, its particularly noticeable in the 2nd game, where you're microing like a boss and still getting good warp-ins, which a lot of players would struggle to do in that timeframe. But you're right, I guess high diamond isn't as full of speedy ubermensch as I thought | ||
|
FookSake
United States11 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:49 freakhill wrote:Moreover I sadly overlooked the fact that many united states people are obsessed with productivity... No point in going on since the path we walk on lead to full frontal cultural clash. I've been thinking this over and over throughout the whole thread. Every time I read "Winning is fun, getting better is fun, improving is fun. If you aren't doing those things, you're not having fun - you're just deluding yourself," I think "Well that's a distinctly Western way to look at things." (Also, those people would to well to google "denying the antecedent.") There are lots of ways to have fun, and ultimately that's what a hobby is about. That's not to mock people who do find research and practice and rising in the ranks to be fun - from what I can tell, people leap way too often into an if-you're-not-with-us-you're-against-us mentality. Everyone just chill - one person's beliefs don't negate the validity of your beliefs. That's not how things work. On March 13 2012 20:38 Apz wrote: Ok, well, I think I need some basic ideas about how to do stuff, not played any rts since like. So, started to google. This is where much of discussions about new players go wrong tho. Normally its something like: Find a build, do x do y, if he do x do y. However, as a new player, I ahve no idea about abbrevations, which makes me lost or not fully understand. Most that replies have been playing for so long that they take things for granted. Some things u can guess, like macro/micro, and other u can at best guess. Not having any knowledge is the problem. ...There will always be people quitting, which means new blood is always needed for a game not to get forgotten. Spot on. I posted about this at length a little while back. Long story short: skilled people forget what it was like to be unskilled. | ||
|
KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:38 interpolarity wrote: insearchof, although i know exactly what you mean that is quite an over-generalization and rather insulting. I, for one, remember having played sc1, wc3, aoe, and still having my run in bronze for quite some time, despite not being “a turtle in slow motion" well speed doesnt mean too much! my big brother is 26 years old and has rts experience only in singleplayer - some c&c, AoE and wc3, not much at all. Everything he knows about starcraft and starcraft II is from watching me play about 20 laddergames, he doesnt use hotkeys other than grouping units. He never played anything online. He started to play on an account for fun online after playing 5 missions of the campaign. After placements, he got into gold and after 25 games, he advanced to platinum (well, and thats where he stopped playing again cause of reallife^^) To be fair, i helped him a bit and told him what to do sometimes (which is quite fair since he didnt even know every unit^^), but i rly have a hard time understanding how ppl can be stuck in bronze while rly trying to get better. I dont wanna offend anyone with that, this story is just for expressing some ppls feelings when they are a bit harsh towards bronze players. Just dont take it too hard and try to understand how ppl that are natrually talented can feel sometimes when they read certain things. gl guys, you can do it!  | ||
|
SaLaYa
United States363 Posts
Show me a Protoss or Terran bronze player that can follow a mapped out build order to 70 supply without messing up their build or taking a lot of extra time to make units/buildings. I bet you can't, because they won't be bronzers at that point. Honestly, crisp timings are what make or break players. You can't tell me that any player under maybe Diamond is going to be able to hold off an A-move attack from a 2 base collosi timing -- if the build is done in a timely and efficient manner. Protoss and Terran rely on strong timings to be efficient and effective at ALL levels of play. A good timing for lower league players is broader than that for top masters/GMs. Example: having 3 collosi with range at around 11-12 minutes is a good timing for a lower level player. Having +1, stim, and medivacs finishing at the same time for a nice TvT timing at 10:00 is a good timing for a GM player. | ||
|
Monkeyballs25
531 Posts
On March 13 2012 23:35 GlocKomA wrote: I think that a lot of this "I have a build and know it" that I hear from Bronzers is just a lie. You may HAVE a build order. You might be able to follow it supply to supply for 5 minutes. But it's the speed that makes the difference. Show me a Protoss or Terran bronze player that can follow a mapped out build order to 70 supply without messing up their build or taking a lot of extra time to make units/buildings. There's rarely such a thing as a mapped out build order before 70 supply, because unless your opponent is asleep he'll have done *something* to interrupt it by then. I think a major advantage higher levels players have that they seem to forget about, is that they're able to deal with these interruptions without breaking their buildorder more than needed. The whole process of -recognising what's happening quickly(reaper in your main, bunker at your natural, whatever) -remembering the right response from memory, or thinking of one on the spot. Assuming you even *know* what the right response is. -executing that response smoothly, AND still having enough apm left over to keep the build order going. That's the killer. If I barely have enough apm to follow the buildorder, harassment just pushes me over the edge. The worst thing is that most of the time these harassments only pop up occasionally, so I'd rarely get the chance to practice the right response. A few exceptions being the bunker rushes and banshee/voidray harass as Zerg, because they were just so bloody common You're right though. Even without any distractions, I mess up my builds now and then. I'm just a very forgetful person, and the amount of drilling I'd need to overcome just isn't worth it. | ||
|
SaLaYa
United States363 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:00 Monkeyballs25 wrote: There's rarely such a thing as a mapped out build order before 70 supply, because unless your opponent is asleep he'll have done *something* to interrupt it by then. I think a major advantage higher levels players have that they seem to forget about, is that they're able to deal with these interruptions without breaking their buildorder more than needed. The whole process of -recognising what's happening quickly(reaper in your main, bunker at your natural, whatever) -remembering the right response from memory, or thinking of one on the spot. Assuming you even *know* what the right response is. -executing that response smoothly, AND still having enough apm left over to keep the build order going. That's the killer. If I barely have enough apm to follow the buildorder, harassment just pushes me over the edge. The worst thing is that most of the time these harassments only pop up occasionally, so I'd rarely get the chance to practice the right response. A few exceptions being the bunker rushes and banshee/voidray harass as Zerg, because they were just so bloody common You're right though. Even without any distractions, I mess up my builds now and then. I'm just a very forgetful person, and the amount of drilling I'd need to overcome just isn't worth it. I guess this would be the second overall issue that lower league players struggle with. Good build order mechanics are obviously important at all levels... I doubt that any player than can basically execute a build in the right order will be bronze. Being able to defend (easier than harassing) would be the second part of "getting out of bronze". I think the point stands about having a build order up to ~70 supply (10:00 or your preferred timing). Obviously you lose units (scouting worker, some marines in defense, etc) but having the basic supply order mapped out will help immensely. When you get to a higher GM level then you can factor in losing units and how that is going to effect your supply + resource management. Usually you NEED to replace certain units if you lose them (sentries, siege tanks etc) because they're part of your defense, and that will weaken timings. I know I am rambling a lot here but the point remains, you need to work as closely to your build as possible while deflecting harassment. The great thing about a lot of refined builds (again harping on ThorzaiN's TvT ) is that they factor in a lot of harassment deflection (bunker at ramp, 2x turrets in mineral lines, lots of marines which scale well in the first 10 minutes). Let me run through some games I've played to show you: Open 1 rax FE (on low ground) Bunker at low ground -Sometimes I've gotten marine/scv all-in. Having the tower, it's a matter of bunker mass repair. Obviously a bad cheese/harassment. Throwing down Raxs and add-ons/etc. -Cloaked banshee comes around 7 minutes, at 40 supply in this build you get an engi bay and 1 turret, you also save a scan. Keeps you safe from that (you also have combat shields). -Sometimes I get 1 base tank pushes that come around this time. With an okay marine spread, I can just a-move with those Marines and some SCVs and still have a large enough economy to be ahead after all is said and done. By now it's the 10:00 mark and I have medivacs, +1, stim, etc. Almost 100 supply and a nice timing where I can bait and mass drop or take my third while using my mobility to deny his third. The point of all this is: I never have to scout beyond the watchtower. I don't need to scan, I don't need to alter my build to do well because it factors all the the defense in. With a decent build you can make it out of the shittier leagues. The exact build I am talking about: http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaaoCjoEjfaoAjaajoFoDoDajacoEiXafjaoQoCoFoPaajiRafaiZoEajaaoQfiZaoEjaiYaiZoGajaoIiZaiZfoEuAajaoDiKiZiZaaoEjfciZaajoEoSoKjaaiZiZaoEajfoEiZaiZaoRiBjaoEaiZiZfaoEaoDuZjqiZaiZajacuJaiZiZfoQoIoA Watch the Day9 video and see how even at the pro level - better builds, solid builds, win games. Imagine that level of refinement at the lower leagues. | ||
| ||
