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On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean?
On March 07 2012 23:14 Linwelin wrote:
Are we going to have "stephano ladder runs" threads every single season?
We all know he's a very good player, probably the best foreigner but come on
Haters gonna hate?
User was warned for this post
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On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean?
Isn't ladder one of his primary methods of practising? 'Meaningless' is a pretty strong word.
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On March 07 2012 23:44 Cortza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean? Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:14 Linwelin wrote:
Are we going to have "stephano ladder runs" threads every single season?
We all know he's a very good player, probably the best foreigner but come on Haters gonna hate?
Where in my post did i hate on Stephano, please tell me. Maybe the part that says that he's the best foreigner?
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On March 07 2012 21:19 Nizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 20:58 Jakkerr wrote:
Stephano is by far the best player outside of Korea.
No1 comes close to him atm, lets hope he continues practicing hard. Stephano is top 3 without a doubt, but guaranteed the best? Morrow is insanely impressive for a dual racer. HuK might be the best PvP in the world. He beat like 4 korean protoss players in the last MLG arena. Naniwa beats a ton of top Koreans consistently as well.
HuK beat Minigun, Socke, Ret and Oz then got 2-0ed by MarineKing and DongRaeGu. Minigun and Socke are not even close to being the best within their region, Ret's ZvP is his worst MU and HuK won with two dumb all ins. Beating Oz is the only really legit thing he did the entire tournament.
MorroW does not have any achivements under his belt except the occasional upset, and he has a negative personal record vs Stephano. Same thing with Naniwa except he runs a bit deeper in tournaments.
Looking at tournament results, vs koreans and comparing head to head Stephanos comes out on top vs any foreigner.
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On March 07 2012 18:51 LimitSEA wrote:I don't know if this is actually MVP, but: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2689988/IMMvpLadder runs aren't really that impressive anywhere but on Korea.
Some player who made himself bronze last season now made a streak on worse players... If it would be IMMVP GM last season he would obviously be GM with such a streak in that season, just think a little : )
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On March 07 2012 18:51 LimitSEA wrote:I don't know if this is actually MVP, but: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2689988/IMMvpLadder runs aren't really that impressive anywhere but on Korea.
Not MVP; some sort of hacked account.
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On March 07 2012 23:44 Cortza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean? Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:14 Linwelin wrote:
Are we going to have "stephano ladder runs" threads every single season?
We all know he's a very good player, probably the best foreigner but come on Haters gonna hate?
Reading comprehension FTW.
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WigglingSquid
5194 Posts
On March 07 2012 18:40 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 18:37 DreamOen wrote:
Such a crazy record, but I think the same could happen if Nestea/Mvp/mc, or even when huk play on EU ladder, they get records like that.I'm curious about what stephano could achieve in the korean ladder with all that beasts around. he got like 70% win rate and was top 10 GM inside a few days
NSHS.Seal had an 80% win rate in top 20 GM some time ago, but I don't see threads being spawned about it.
Can't this be included in Stephano's fanclub rather than bothering everyone with these kind of empty OP-threads?
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If he doesnt go to Korea he wont ever be as good as he could be. Also, if he claimed he had learned everything he could from the korea trip he had then he is crazy. He was there for less than a month?
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I would say 80 % win rate on the Korean ladder is far more impressive.
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On March 07 2012 18:37 ThatGuy89 wrote:
our opinion is to stop threads like this being made -_-
when the last one was made, it was made clear that it wasnt worth a thread.
yea the guys an absolute beast, but if MMA or MVP or someone laddered on EU they'd probably do the same.
This can be posted in his fan club or something, or even the old stephano ladder run thread
I'm not actually 100% sure it is the MVP, but "IMMVP" is right above me in my division on something like 250 - 15. Bastard is stopping me being 1st in my division 
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His run is freaking amazing notwithstanding the fact that the KR ladder is a lot tougher and being the best on the ladder doesn't mean you'll be awarded a GSL trophy.
To clarify a few things:
1. Ladder play does seem to reasonably well correlate with objective measures of skill, such as Elo -- 3 of the 5 nonKorean players in the top 5 in terms of Elo scores have the highest win rates, or near the highest win rates, on the EU server.
2. Ladder play does not correlate well, however, with the opinions of angry nerds.
3. Ladder play I would guess best predicts results in tournaments where you don't have time to study your opponent in depth -- which is most tournaments outside the GSL. Playing on ladder is sort of like site reading a concerto whereas playing in GSL is like preparing a few months out for your Carnegie Hall debut; it's possible that the person playing at Carnegie Hall (e.g., Nestea) is not as good as someone who's a great site reader (e.g., Stephano) when he has more limited time to learn the piece he has to play.
4. I have a strong hunch that not a single person detracting from Stephano's ladder run or shitting on it as meaningless will ever accomplish anything as impressive in his entire life, but I have no way of verifying this so it's just a hunch.
Edit: Edited 1. to say 3 of the 5 nonKorean players "in the top 5 in terms of Elo scores".
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So many negative nancies in this thread. Kudos to Stephano for being amazing on the EU server!
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On March 08 2012 00:03 WigglingSquid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 18:40 mememolly wrote:On March 07 2012 18:37 DreamOen wrote:
Such a crazy record, but I think the same could happen if Nestea/Mvp/mc, or even when huk play on EU ladder, they get records like that.I'm curious about what stephano could achieve in the korean ladder with all that beasts around. he got like 70% win rate and was top 10 GM inside a few days NSHS.Seal had an 80% win rate in top 20 GM some time ago, but I don't see threads being spawned about it. Can't this be included in Stephano's fanclub rather than bothering everyone with these kind of empty OP-threads?
When was this? Seal has around a 67% win rate at present. An 80% win rate on the KR server, assuming all of the games were played when your MMR was at GM level, is more impressive than a 90% win rate on the EU server, probably, but both are damn impressive.
Also recall that Stephano had the second best win % of any zerg and he had no time to adjust to playing on the KR server. Every foreigner seems to say it takes quite a while to adjust to the style of play there. He immediately jumped right in and was dominant. That's also very impressive.
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Stephano is a total beast that's why.
Wish he was at IEM.
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Obviously these stats are incredible... but still, he's by far the best foreigner atm, it's not surprising, is it? We really need him in GSL to see how good he really is.
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On March 07 2012 23:51 worked13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean? Isn't ladder one of his primary methods of practising? 'Meaningless' is a pretty strong word.
No, most pros almost never ladder. Once people actually get good they stop laddering and practice in custom games vs other good players. Ladder, and especially ladder while streaming is not good practice at all. Most of your games will be vs random bads (because of capped MMR) who will just do random bad cheese/all in or vs people trying to stream cheat or stream snipe you.
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I've stopped being impressed by ladder results.
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On March 08 2012 00:21 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:51 worked13 wrote:On March 07 2012 23:12 setzer wrote:
Wow another thread discussing Stephano's compeletely meaningless ladder results. Does it still actually surprise people he is the best non-Korean? Isn't ladder one of his primary methods of practising? 'Meaningless' is a pretty strong word. No, most pros almost never ladder. Once people actually get good they stop laddering and practice in custom games vs other good players. Ladder, and especially ladder while streaming is not good practice at all. Most of your games will be vs random bads (because of capped MMR) who will just do random bad cheese/all in or vs people trying to stream cheat or stream snipe you.
Some pro's does but many don't. Morrow have said that he almost never practise on ladder except when he streams.
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On March 07 2012 18:37 zefreak wrote:
Considering that people like Nerchio, Bratok and Bly have reasonably similar winrates, I would have to conclude that EU ladder is really not that tough? I don't actually know, and I don't mean to downplay any of their accomplishments, but it doesn't look like Stephano's run is much more impressive than any of the guys I mentioned, and while they are top EU players they aren't really top in the world.
A lot of the top euro players are on Korea like ToD and Naniwa so this doesn't seem too impressive. Even NA has players like Vines, but I don't think there are any kors on EU.
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EPT
