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On March 08 2012 00:09 The_Darkness wrote:
His run is freaking amazing notwithstanding the fact that the KR ladder is a lot tougher and being the best on the ladder doesn't mean you'll be awarded a GSL trophy.
To clarify a few things:
1. Ladder play does seem to reasonably well correlate with objective measures of skill, such as Elo -- 3 of the 5 nonKorean players in the top 5 in terms of Elo scores have the highest win rates, or near the highest win rates, on the EU server.
2. Ladder play does not correlate well, however, with the opinions of angry nerds.
3. Ladder play I would guess best predicts results in tournaments where you don't have time to study your opponent in depth -- which is most tournaments outside the GSL. Playing on ladder is sort of like site reading a concerto whereas playing in GSL is like preparing a few months out for your Carnegie Hall debut; it's possible that the person playing at Carnegie Hall (e.g., Nestea) is not as good as someone who's a great site reader (e.g., Stephano) when he has more limited time to learn the piece he has to play.
4. I have a strong hunch that not a single person detracting from Stephano's ladder run or shitting on it as meaningless will ever accomplish anything as impressive in his entire life, but I have no way of verifying this so it's just a hunch.
Edit: Edited 1. to say 3 of the 5 nonKorean players "in the top 5 in terms of Elo scores".
Good post you could be right. I also think strong ladder play as a zerg shows you got incredible mechanics and are very good at reactive situations aka suprice cheese.
I still think Stephano´s top 7 Korean GM 72% win ratio are more impressive then this
btw last time a post like this was made Stephano won a major tournament so is he going to win IPL 4 also:D
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many of Stephanos wins are against lesser players, it is a huge difference if you play against other top players or against random GM or masters
but ofc he is insanely good, nothing new there^^
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Lost at Team Monobattles...? Must have randomed Overlords or something.
Seriously, I think that Stephano would be close to the level of Flash if he offered a similar amount of dedication. There's some stuff in his play that can't really be copied. Remember what the BW players say? That there are some builds that only Flash can do because he's Flash? The same thing applies here.
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One of Stephanos most brilliant aspects of his game is that he plays a style where he doesnt loose to inferior players.
Too many pros plays styles that are too volatile so they occasionaly lose to players they shouldnt. Playing a style that ensures a victory pretty much all of the time against lesser opponents is very important if you want to be a consistant top player and Stephano is one of the best in that regard. Oh yea and he is not just consistant, he is pretty damn good as well!
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On March 08 2012 00:49 Archvil3 wrote:
One of Stephanos most brilliant aspects of his game is that he plays a style where he doesnt loose to inferior players.
Too many pros plays styles that are too volatile so they occasionaly lose to players they shouldnt. Playing a style that ensures a victory pretty much all of the time against lesser opponents is very important if you want to be a consistant top player and Stephano is one of the best in that regard. Oh yea and he is not just consistant, he is pretty damn good as well!
Infestors.
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On March 08 2012 00:30 Acritter wrote:
Lost at Team Monobattles...? Must have randomed Overlords or something.
Seriously, I think that Stephano would be close to the level of Flash if he offered a similar amount of dedication. There's some stuff in his play that can't really be copied. Remember what the BW players say? That there are some builds that only Flash can do because he's Flash? The same thing applies here.
Seriously cool down. Don't make it seem like being able to have the level of dedication flash has is an easy thing. Fact is, no one can practise and live the game as much as flash can, and thats why flash is the best. Arbitrary statements about how if a player practise more, he would be so good are almost useless since the only thing that matters in starcraft is practise...
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Stephano is very good, but plz dont compare him to Flash ffs
he lost convincingly to Polt, so Polt must be some uber Flash? dont be ridiculous...
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this is all great and stuff, but farming low rated ladder players while others are at iem isnt something he probably cares much about. theres no news here because pro players often go on insane runs, should just stick to posting this kind of stuff in his fan club, im sure you would get a much more positive response.
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So good, and who is that Kingler guy, pretty sick aswell: )
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I wonder how he would do in korea, Impressive either way. In the end tho, ladder doesnt matter
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On March 08 2012 01:00 Zeon0 wrote:
Stephano is very good, but plz dont compare him to Flash ffs
he lost convincingly to Polt, so Polt must be some uber Flash? dont be ridiculous...
You'd think he was already better than Flash the way most people are talking.
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i seem him stream whenever I can, lately he looks bored, like no one poses a challenge to him. even when he loses it looks like he just played carelessly.
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On March 08 2012 01:02 radiantshadow92 wrote:
I wonder how he would do in korea, Impressive either way. In the end tho, ladder doesnt matter
He was there all December did top 7 GM 72% win ratio.
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Sweden2672 Posts
to be fair, this is only because of the mmr cap
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On March 07 2012 18:51 LimitSEA wrote:I don't know if this is actually MVP, but: http://sc2ranks.com/eu/2689988/IMMvpLadder runs aren't really that impressive anywhere but on Korea.
Really trying to take away his from his ladderun? winning above 90% on NA,EU is actually pretty damn good.
Stephano has proven in Tournaments he is easily a Code S level player.
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On March 07 2012 18:37 zefreak wrote:
Considering that people like Nerchio, Bratok and Bly have reasonably similar winrates, I would have to conclude that EU ladder is really not that tough? I don't actually know, and I don't mean to downplay any of their accomplishments, but it doesn't look like Stephano's run is much more impressive than any of the guys I mentioned, and while they are top EU players they aren't really top in the world.
I believe to fix the GM issues from previous seasons, the maximum MMR cap was lowered. This helps tip top players find games more quickly, and other players reach their level of MMR more easily. No doubt there are some impressive players in that list of wins, but I'm sure many more are simply outclassed hardcore amateurs. This is all based on me skimming someone else's post from another thread I don't remember very well, so it may be incorrect. However, it is an explanation.
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Dude calm down. It's the SEA server, GM doesn't mean anything there, because the player numbers are so low and there are pretty much no top players playing on that server either.
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On March 08 2012 01:08 XRaDiiX wrote:Really trying to take away his from his ladderun? winning above 90% on NA,EU is actually pretty damn good. Stephano has proven in Tournaments he is easily a Code S level player.
Really? Because I remember a time when Idra was over 90% win rate on NA ladder before the MMR cap made it easy to do so, and with many more games than stephano and people still called him bad. And really there isn't much to take away from stephanos run here because it's just that, ladder. If you really want to praise him, bring up his tournament runnings. Maybe his blizzard cup run or something?
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Stephano ladder run is impresive indeed.
But even much impresive are some korean accounts:
1. NexExcrement (T) 179W 59L 75.21%
4. 창조의저녁 (T) 74W 13L 85.06%
8. NSHjjakji (T) 59W 14L 80.82%
20. CreatorPrime (P) 26W 4L 86.67%
25. llllllllllll 52W 12L 81.25%
Remember that korean ladder is so so much harder than any other, to the point that prolly that only about 5 Eu players have the same level of the korean top 300 (Hero, huk, Sase, Apocalypse, JYP, Nestea, Mvp, and many others accounts are NOT in GM, that's why +200)
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I watch his stream and I would be very interested in knowing how he would do on the korean ladder, where cheese is much more common. Europeans seem to be much more focused on macro oriented play which is nice but it makes it difficult for cross server comparison.
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EPT
