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On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4..
if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so
and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game.
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On March 03 2012 08:02 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4.. if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game.
Why not save the gas and do drops instead?
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I agree with the OP and the 2nd post that they should and will be used more in the future. Most zerg players now think of them only as something to sneak into an enemy base. When they start building one outside the enemy's base to re-inforce quickly and 2-3 all over the map to defend expansions, Zerg will be nearly unbeatable.
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Nydus would be used more if they pushed units out faster. As it is now, you can be just as effective with overlord speed + drop, and you dont have to spend 100 gas every time you harass (and you get units out faster than the nydus).
If lings came out 2 at a time even, it would be way better because then you could actually get units out to harass.
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On March 03 2012 09:38 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 08:02 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4.. if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game. Why not save the gas and do drops instead?
drops doesn't allow you to instantly transfer a 200/200 army from one base to the next and back and forth
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On March 03 2012 11:38 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 09:38 TheRabidDeer wrote:On March 03 2012 08:02 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4.. if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game. Why not save the gas and do drops instead? drops doesn't allow you to instantly transfer a 200/200 army from one base to the next and back and forth
Neither does nydus... nydus unloads slower than hell.
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Useless because it doesn't matter where your army is, it matters what it is and how big, and using nydus only hurts that. Positional play is useless in SC2 for the most part.
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On March 03 2012 11:44 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 11:38 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On March 03 2012 09:38 TheRabidDeer wrote:On March 03 2012 08:02 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4.. if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game. Why not save the gas and do drops instead? drops doesn't allow you to instantly transfer a 200/200 army from one base to the next and back and forth Neither does nydus... nydus unloads slower than hell.
did you read my post? If you're unloading 4 at a time it unloads hella fast. if you're unloading at 4 different places that's even better.... if you feel as though you summoned a bad nydus you can always stop the unload and retreat and nydus elsewhere. What's a big advantage is that your opponent has to send a large portion of his forces to stop the nydus breach and it's hard to cover 4 bases at a time
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On March 03 2012 11:48 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Useless because it doesn't matter where your army is, it matters what it is and how big, and using nydus only hurts that. Positional play is useless in SC2 for the most part.
are you serious? exploiting position in SC2 is a huge deal. That's how I win most of my tvts, and tvps. position is important in tvz too. if you're out of position then you're pretty fucked and committed to losing that army. if your opponent gets a strong position on you and you're zerg you're in just as big of trouble too.
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I find that getting overlord drop + overlord speed(200/200 + 100/100) are more useful mid game than getting a nydus network and canal (150/200 +100/100). Mainly because at higher levels players are normally going to scout the nydus worm in time to stop it, while even if they scout the drop coming they can't completely shut it down it by killing 1 very weak structure.
As a side note, I feel that blizzard should allow zerglings to unload 2 at a time from the nydus canal. Otherwise it takes about 60 sec to unload a decent sized zergling army.
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On March 03 2012 08:02 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:59 catid wrote:On March 03 2012 07:32 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Nydus networks are soooo underused. I believe it's going to eventually be extremely game breaking in the late game and perhaps even imbalanced. People are saying nydus networks are worthless? are you kidding me? they're expensive? When you're banking 3k mins 3k gas and your opponent is just turtling you should be utilizing the nydus network. Workers can stop them right? Have you ever used 4 nydus networks at a time? I'd like to see workers stop 4 that are emerging at the same time, your opponent is forced to move his army. I say nydus is 4th base, then nydus his main, and then nydus his front, and then back in the 4th base... You can do 2 nydus in the 4th, and then 2 nydus in his third. Maybe 2 nydus in the 4th, 1 in the main, and then 1 in the third. it's going to take insanely strategic defense to stop that kind of breach. To me, nydus networks will be the answer to late game zerg.
Anyone who is suggesting a nydus worm buff is either crazy, or have never even tried to utilize nydus worms at all. summoning 4th nydus allows for units to be streamed 4 at a time. That to me is pretty fast and for anyone saying that the unload should be faster would be breaking the game advocating spending 1.2k gas to get units into your opponent's base, seriously? I mean it might be a good idea in a 4v4.. if you're doing ultra ling and banking 3k gas then It's defiintely viable. Both players are maxed and your opponent is trying to take more bases. 1.2k gas is worth the price if you can shut down an expansion and then harrass the main or even other expos. You basically force your opponent to defend or force him to push out when he's uncomfortable to do so and it's not 1.2k at a time. you only spend the intial 800 gas on the nydus networks, and every spawn is 100 gas each. To me it's worth it, only in the late game.
If you're only building one exit at a time for 100/100, what's the point of spending 600/800 to buy 4 Nydus networks? If you want to use what you spent that money for, you will be building 400/400 worth of exits at a time... That's an insane amount of money just to transport units, especially considering once your opponent is wise to it, you'll be losing a lot of them while they build, and you can't cancel..
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On March 03 2012 10:50 Perdac Curall wrote:
I agree with the OP and the 2nd post that they should and will be used more in the future. Most zerg players now think of them only as something to sneak into an enemy base. When they start building one outside the enemy's base to re-inforce quickly and 2-3 all over the map to defend expansions, Zerg will be nearly unbeatable.
Watch Leenock vs Seed game 2 to see what happens when Zerg tries to build a Nydus outside the enemy base to re-inforce...
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On March 03 2012 12:25 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 11:48 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Useless because it doesn't matter where your army is, it matters what it is and how big, and using nydus only hurts that. Positional play is useless in SC2 for the most part. are you serious? exploiting position in SC2 is a huge deal. That's how I win most of my tvts, and tvps. position is important in tvz too. if you're out of position then you're pretty fucked and committed to losing that army. if your opponent gets a strong position on you and you're zerg you're in just as big of trouble too.
Yes, but having a smaller army sets you up to lose no matter what. Position comes second after army size and composition.
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On March 03 2012 12:39 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 10:50 Perdac Curall wrote:
I agree with the OP and the 2nd post that they should and will be used more in the future. Most zerg players now think of them only as something to sneak into an enemy base. When they start building one outside the enemy's base to re-inforce quickly and 2-3 all over the map to defend expansions, Zerg will be nearly unbeatable. Watch Leenock vs Seed game 2 to see what happens when Zerg tries to build a Nydus outside the enemy base to re-inforce...
bad example, it was a 2 base hydra nydus push against a voidray expand even with phoenix for perfect scouting (can't be saver on crossfire). Trying a nydus against this build is a straight self kill. Especially if you don't even have the ground control with lings.
And the nydus would have probably even worked if he had gotten control over the xel naga tower. Huge vision, which the toss had and there was almost no space, where the nydus could have went down. Might have even worked further north if he had spread up his lings and then remake it right in the front (you do it anyway to get the queens there).
But its just a bad idea against stargate. I guess leenock was aware of this trying to hide the nydus at all cost, that it was a bad map for it and the opening of the opponent was perfect against it.
When zergs get beaten up more when they try to force their way through an army, they will start to rely on those mechanics more. But i guess we will probably see 220 supply zerg more often, before we see more nydus play and also overlords clouds to absorb fire.
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On March 03 2012 12:57 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 12:25 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On March 03 2012 11:48 EternaLLegacy wrote:
Useless because it doesn't matter where your army is, it matters what it is and how big, and using nydus only hurts that. Positional play is useless in SC2 for the most part. are you serious? exploiting position in SC2 is a huge deal. That's how I win most of my tvts, and tvps. position is important in tvz too. if you're out of position then you're pretty fucked and committed to losing that army. if your opponent gets a strong position on you and you're zerg you're in just as big of trouble too. Yes, but having a smaller army sets you up to lose no matter what. Position comes second after army size and composition.
I thought I remember saying in the late game of zerg 200/200 army with money spare such as 3k mins 3k gas did you not read that part?
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But its just a bad idea against stargate. I guess leenock was aware of this trying to hide the nydus at all cost, that it was a bad map for it and the opening of the opponent was perfect against it.
In fact Nydus/hydra or hydra drops are among the BEST answers to Stargate openings...
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Because nydus worm suck. Zerg units are generally super fast, and do not need nydus to get around the map, and infestors can you just load up in overlords.
The only reason nydus would be good is to get into one of the bases, or hide drones, which you again, can do with overlords.
The main problem with the nydus, is actually that it HAS SUPER LOW HP. EVEN if it is 50% finished,you only need 8 workers to kill it before it is complete! i mean, WTF
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Its just so expensive.........
And the fact that units come out one at a time in a pretty slow time sucks.
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On March 03 2012 16:37 Charon1979 wrote:Show nested quote +But its just a bad idea against stargate. I guess leenock was aware of this trying to hide the nydus at all cost, that it was a bad map for it and the opening of the opponent was perfect against it. In fact Nydus/hydra or hydra drops are among the BEST answers to Stargate openings...
among the best offensive answers. They still suck compared to a 3base defensive opening with antiair.
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I don't get it
is there any dropship in the game in which units come out more than 1 at a time from? the only one I can think of is the bunker/CC and those are buildings...
So I don't understand why I see so many people commenting that because the units come out 1 at a time all of a sudden it's useless.
Are dropships useless? Shuttles? Medivacs? Warp Prisms? Overlords?
What a pathetic excuse
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EPT
