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On February 22 2012 03:01 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required. What ?
Terrans are panicking because this is a huge change. Saying "oh, but GSL is so Terran dominated" suggests you think that this is indicative of imbalance. It isn't.
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On February 21 2012 20:35 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 17:17 Fortii wrote:On February 21 2012 17:10 decaf wrote:
The biggest benefit you get from ghosts is that they reduce the need of scouting late game. Now that they're basically useless vs blords and ultras terran has no legit way to deal with blord <-> ultra switches, because once you scout what's popping out of the eggs it's already too late to react with a few rounds of marauders/vikings. Ghosts allowed for a core unit composition that was able to deal with both reasonably well. I imagine TvZ will still be winnable for extremely good terrans even though it is getting a lot harder, but the TvZ winrate should drop way down up to mid GM. one unit to counter them all. exactly there is the problem. ghost is supposed to be an "anti spellcaster unit" and thats what he is with emp and snipe vs psionic. plus nuke harrass (dont underestimate it) edit: if u think tvz winrate will drop take a look at HSM-raven vs broodlord immobility. and dont talk about ultras please, they are hilarious. Does Zerg have respond to what Terran is doing? No Does Terran have to? Yes Zerg doesn't need to look out for Terrans composition lategame.
Your logic is flawless.
Zerg don't need to respond to what terran is doing (only in the late game), but disregard the majority of phases Starcraft is played on: early and mid. As if getting to the late game as zerg is as brainless as you assume.
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On February 22 2012 02:20 Zedonius666 wrote:
Ah sorry I forgot about Liquipedia. Thanks though for the response. By the looks of it, nothing change with the patch I downloaded. Unless the patch don't take effect until b.net is actually up. No phoenix upgrade or ghost change. This is using the Play VS Ai button in offline mode.
It's working for me...
![[image loading]](http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3088/sc2patch143.jpg)
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On February 22 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:43 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:
[quote]
Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now.
A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game
Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe. When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard. Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers. How is the nerf not that bad? It literally makes Ghosts terrible against everything that isn't a High Templar or Infestor.
You probably want to do some math before actually making that statement. Blizzard's already done half the work for you, so all you need to do is compare the cost of ghost to all the units that it can snipe, with the energy cost of snipe taking into account of course. I think it's more accurate to say that snipe is now particularly strong against casters, while still being decent against expensive biological units instead of being particularly strong against anything biological.
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On February 22 2012 03:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 03:01 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required. What ? Terrans are panicking because this is a huge change. Saying "oh, but GSL is so Terran dominated" suggests you think that this is indicative of imbalance. It isn't.
No, it's indicative of Terrans being perfectly fine as they are at the very highest levels of play. And second, I didn't even mention Zerg at all.
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Anyone who says terran is the best race, hasn't been watching GSL for months.
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On February 22 2012 03:02 Knighthawkbro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2012 20:35 thezanursic wrote:On February 21 2012 17:17 Fortii wrote:On February 21 2012 17:10 decaf wrote:
The biggest benefit you get from ghosts is that they reduce the need of scouting late game. Now that they're basically useless vs blords and ultras terran has no legit way to deal with blord <-> ultra switches, because once you scout what's popping out of the eggs it's already too late to react with a few rounds of marauders/vikings. Ghosts allowed for a core unit composition that was able to deal with both reasonably well. I imagine TvZ will still be winnable for extremely good terrans even though it is getting a lot harder, but the TvZ winrate should drop way down up to mid GM. one unit to counter them all. exactly there is the problem. ghost is supposed to be an "anti spellcaster unit" and thats what he is with emp and snipe vs psionic. plus nuke harrass (dont underestimate it) edit: if u think tvz winrate will drop take a look at HSM-raven vs broodlord immobility. and dont talk about ultras please, they are hilarious. Does Zerg have respond to what Terran is doing? No Does Terran have to? Yes Zerg doesn't need to look out for Terrans composition lategame. Your logic is flawless. Zerg don't need to respond to what terran is doing (only in the late game), but disregard the majority of phases Starcraft is played on: early and mid. As if getting to the late game as zerg is as brainless as you assume.
True, but that doesn't change the fact that late game TvZ is not... not broken. I hate to use double negatives, but I hate to say that the entire late game is broken. Late game Z is much better than late game T, and simply because earlier on in the matchup it is imba doesn't justify this mechanic.
Oh, and I love your signature, by the way :D
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On February 22 2012 03:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 03:01 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required. What ? Terrans are panicking because this is a huge change. Saying "oh, but GSL is so Terran dominated" suggests you think that this is indicative of imbalance. It isn't.
Lol yeah the highest tier players in the world don't indicate the current balance of the game, real smart. !
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On February 22 2012 03:03 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:45 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:43 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:
[quote]
Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe.
When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard. Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers. How is the nerf not that bad? It literally makes Ghosts terrible against everything that isn't a High Templar or Infestor. You probably want to do some math before actually making that statement. Blizzard's already done half the work for you, so all you need to do is compare the cost of ghost to all the units that it can snipe, with the energy cost of snipe taking into account of course. I think it's more accurate to say that snipe is now particularly strong against casters, while still being decent against expensive biological units instead of being particularly strong against anything biological.
You have weird standards for decent. Pre-nerf, Ghosts were great against BLs, decent against Ultras, and great against Infestors. Now they're decent against BLs, mosquito bites to Ultras, and great against Infestors. This is a big deal because Ultra remaxes will be extremely difficult to stop.
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On February 22 2012 02:33 brotosterone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:49 Spades wrote:On February 22 2012 01:33 da_head wrote:On February 22 2012 01:26 Maaasta wrote:
Phoenix Range Upgrade 150Mins/150Gas 90sec research time wut. seriously? also, my game keeps fuckin up. at 99% i get an error: "The patch "bnet\Battle.net\i18n\enUS\String\CLIENT_GAMES.xml" could not be applied. (MD5 mismatch: expected 0x7910023471D6234022B7E4C301AE7103, actual 0xC65D91668D5E2C873E254C2539D24F19.)(PTCApply_BSDiff failed.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate:  TCApply)" anyone have any ideas? mine is 1.4.2 and goes 99% then error also ;o Hey Spades, I had this same problem. I ran a clean install from my relocalizer and it fixed the problem. I hope this works for you!
I still getting the same error  .
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On February 22 2012 03:06 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 03:02 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 03:01 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 03:00 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:58 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:56 teamsolid wrote:On February 22 2012 02:53 ArcticFox wrote:On February 22 2012 02:50 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:49 goswser wrote:
Terrans are so quick to forget that terran was perfectly capable of dealing with zerg late game before people ever started using ghosts...guess what terran players, watch some old vods, and relearn how to do it! Terran didn't have a 10% win rate against zerg before they started massing ghosts, they won't have a 10% win rate afterwards. Feel free to discuss some of those methods while also factoring in that Zergs didn't do the same strategies back then. Also add in the nerfs to Reapers, Hellions and Tanks, and buffs to Infestors, Ultras, and BL (PDD Stealth nerf...) that happened in that time period as well. Yes, because changes that happened during beta are still relevant now. How about them nerfs to those roaches? Strong strawman. Nah, it's just how that post emphasizes how over panicky all T's get every time there's a nerf. Yet, GSL is still full of Terrans. If you choose not to see this, fine, but stop pretending that Terran is super OP and that Zergs are just getting brutalized or something. They're not. Zerg winrates are fine against Terran, and they've never suggested that such a massive nerf to the Ghost was required. What ? Terrans are panicking because this is a huge change. Saying "oh, but GSL is so Terran dominated" suggests you think that this is indicative of imbalance. It isn't. Lol yeah the highest tier players in the world don't indicate the current balance of the game, real smart. !
They do, but the distribution of races in 1 32 player tournament that changes dramatically from month to month is not enough to say.
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On February 22 2012 03:03 Tezkat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:20 Zedonius666 wrote:
Ah sorry I forgot about Liquipedia. Thanks though for the response. By the looks of it, nothing change with the patch I downloaded. Unless the patch don't take effect until b.net is actually up. No phoenix upgrade or ghost change. This is using the Play VS Ai button in offline mode.
It's working for me...
Hrm, Sniper round is not "D" for me its "R".
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So is the patch released in Europe tommorow?
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On February 22 2012 03:07 Rabbet wrote:
Hrm, Sniper round is not "D" for me its "R".
Um... I remapped my hotkeys...
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On February 22 2012 03:05 Trealador wrote:
Anyone who says terran is the best race, hasn't been watching GSL for months.
Correctamundo. I think that may have to do with a long, long series of Terran nerfs for a while now. The game has been looking more and more balanced because of it - maybe with this patch we'll see the racial balance even out a bit in the GSL.
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What possible justification do they have for releasing this patch today? At best this is gross negligence towards the competitive community they are supposedly trying to foster.
I just don't get how they can be so fucking poor at this when it is incredibly obvious that this patch timing is about as bad as it could possibly be, as far as tuesdays go.
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On February 22 2012 03:09 Hakanfrog wrote:
So is the patch released in Europe tommorow?
Yes , maintenance is from 03:00 - 11:00.
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On February 22 2012 02:57 shizna wrote:
balance aside... is it too much to ask that blizzard fix ghost without making it next to useless? as far as i'm concerned it's not even an option anymore, it's just crap unless zerg go funday monday 100% infestor composition.
well monday does happen every 7 days...
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My client weirdly downloaded 1.4.2 again (???) and now battle.net is down. What gives?
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Oh thank goodness parental controls are IN, I can be my own parent now!
EDIT: WHAT THE HELL BLIZZ, DX FILE MISSING? REINSTALL? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
EDIT: NVM, it works fine now.
EDIT: PROTOSS SHIELDS CHEAPER NOW, wow what is the reasoning behind this?
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EPT
