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On February 22 2012 02:07 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it. Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change. Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good. I have they suck with anything but Mech and when you Mech you're so immobile that it's basically impossible to hold more then 3 bases on the majority of the Maps since the only mobile unit you have is the Helion that does horrible against anything but Lings. And no Ghosts in TvZ will not be good anymore . They're basically the Anti-Infestor which is kinda funny since the Infestor is basically the Anti-Everything. But thats not new Blizzard thinks it's a great idea to force players into building units for 1! purpose alone and make them useless for anything else.
That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has. Once ghosts snipe infestors, the vikings take care of the broods and snipe strill works well against them too, just shift click the snipes.
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On February 22 2012 02:39 stormchaser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:07 s3rp wrote:On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it. Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change. Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good. I have they suck with anything but Mech and when you Mech you're so immobile that it's basically impossible to hold more then 3 bases on the majority of the Maps since the only mobile unit you have is the Helion that does horrible against anything but Lings. And no Ghosts in TvZ will not be good anymore . They're basically the Anti-Infestor which is kinda funny since the Infestor is basically the Anti-Everything. But thats not new Blizzard thinks it's a great idea to force players into building units for 1! purpose alone and make them useless for anything else. That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has.
ahhhh right.... and infestor are anti-ghost... oh wait.
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On February 22 2012 02:32 jdsowa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:28 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:23 jdsowa wrote:
This past weekend a funny thing happened. There was a T player. He could've gone on TL and whined about the forthcoming snipe nerf. Instead, he queued up for a game, was matched up against Idra and utterly destroyed his broodlord/corruptor/infestor composition with ravens & BCs.
Unless the Z's you are playing are better than Idra, you should be just fine post snipe nerf.
I know the concept of actually having to get T3 units to defend against T3 units seems a bit wacky. It blew my mind as well.
Little known fact is that spread thors are actually better than ultras, cost for cost. And they also shoot air. So you don't play Terran, right? You can read me like a book. No, I am not a low league T player looking for Blizzard to hand me free wins.
Oh so you're a low league zerg who can't beat terran, gotcha.
Still can't believe they didn't try the minus massive idea, it makes 100% more sense.
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On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway. Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe. When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though.
You haven't been using the internet much lately have you?
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On February 22 2012 02:33 brotosterone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:49 Spades wrote:On February 22 2012 01:33 da_head wrote:On February 22 2012 01:26 Maaasta wrote:
Phoenix Range Upgrade 150Mins/150Gas 90sec research time wut. seriously? also, my game keeps fuckin up. at 99% i get an error: "The patch "bnet\Battle.net\i18n\enUS\String\CLIENT_GAMES.xml" could not be applied. (MD5 mismatch: expected 0x7910023471D6234022B7E4C301AE7103, actual 0xC65D91668D5E2C873E254C2539D24F19.)(PTCApply_BSDiff failed.) If this problem persists, you may be able to solve it by uninstalling and then reinstalling the game. If you are unable to correct this problem, please contact Blizzard Technical Support. (BNUpdate:  TCApply)" anyone have any ideas? mine is 1.4.2 and goes 99% then error also ;o Hey Spades, I had this same problem. I ran a clean install from my relocalizer and it fixed the problem. I hope this works for you!
How do you do this? Does it take a long time?
edit: nvm i found out. thx it saved me a lot of time
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[/QUOTE]
That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like what the infestor is
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I think most people were in agreement that some sort of nerf for snipe VS zerg T-3 was in order.
What I don't understand is why they felt like the spell needed to be nerfed into the ground against everything else.
Was snipe ever called "overpowered" VS banelings, zealots, marines, or mutalisks? Of course not. Snipe was used extremely rarely VS units other than Zerg T-3 and casters. But the fact that you could snipe down banelings or zealots sometimes was a cool wrinkle to terran play that I don't think anyone had a problem with. It was a "oh wow, that was cool" moment when you sometimes saw banelings get sniped to death.
That's gone now. Like QXC said in his great post on this subject, this patch has murdered a lot of potential terran innovation and taken away some cool moments that could happen since snipe can now only be used VS casters and zerg T-3 (to some extent).
And there was just no reason for this to be so. I don't understan why they just wouldn't have made the nerf specific to massive units.
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There are no patch notes along with the patch.... WTF BLIZ
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On February 22 2012 02:40 VPVanek wrote:
That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like what the infestor is
[/QUOTE]
QQ, infestors are massive units you scan and your tanks pick them off. Snipe works really well against them and ghosts are ridiculously easier to control than infestors. You act like fungal is an ability easy to cast when its range it so unbelievably short vs terran, splitting stimmed marines is enough to kill 6-7 infestors or atleast burn most of their energy.
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On February 22 2012 02:24 Xalorian wrote:
Same shit over and over again.
Peoples are raging before actually testing and seeing it. They all act like they know exactly what will happen and how this will be so imba now that they got nerfed to the ground.
Then maybe, just maybe, they should have put this new patch with HUGE late-game implications in both TvZ and ZvP (and, arguably, TvP, depending on how much you snipe zealots or use phoenix to distract vikings) on the TEST realm so we could play with it and see just how different it is. If they just suddenly said "We decided storm/fungal is slightly too powerful against Terran bionic forces, so it does half damage now" without testing it first, you would probably be up in arms too.
Frankly, I'm tired of all the Terran hate, and all of the knee-jerk rebalancing as matchups are getting figured out. Ghosts may have needed a tweaking, but completely ruining one of the more interesting abilities in the game is not good. There have to be ways to make the other races *more* interesting, instead of constantly making Terran *less* interesting....
Know how there's constant whining that Terran never makes anything but marines/marauders or marines/tanks? Because whenever we find something interesting to do with a different unit, it gets smacked with the nerfbat. How dare we use a unit that's not a core unit.
I hold out hope that HotS gives the other races cool and unique and useful, micro-intensive abilities to use, rather than constantly beating down Terran with a bat to make them as boring and vanilla as the other two races, and hopefully we can finally move past this "racism" that exists.
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On February 22 2012 02:42 stormchaser wrote:That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has.
Sounds like what the infestor is
[/QUOTE]
QQ, infestors are massive units you scan and your tanks pick them off. Snipe works really well against them and ghosts are ridiculously easier to control than infestors. You act like fungal is an ability easy to cast when its range it so unbelievably short vs terran, splitting stimmed marines is enough to kill 6-7 infestors or atleast burn most of their energy.[/QUOTE]
The funny thing is you are assuming I play Terran.
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On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway. Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe. When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard.
Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers.
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On February 22 2012 02:43 VPVanek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:42 stormchaser wrote:On February 22 2012 02:40 VPVanek wrote:
That's what ghosts are suppose to be...anti-infestor. Not anti-Every-fucking-unit-zerg-has. Sounds like what the infestor is
QQ, infestors are massive units you scan and your tanks pick them off. Snipe works really well against them and ghosts are ridiculously easier to control than infestors. You act like fungal is an ability easy to cast when its range it so unbelievably short vs terran, splitting stimmed marines is enough to kill 6-7 infestors or atleast burn most of their energy.[/QUOTE]
The funny thing is you are assuming I play Terran.[/QUOTE]
Yeah because of your icon next to your username, idiot.
User was warned for this post
User was warned for this post
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So the game is patched but there are NO notes on the patcher, on the website ....
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On February 22 2012 02:43 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:38 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:36 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:32 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:28 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:21 Shiori wrote:On February 22 2012 02:20 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 02:09 eourcs wrote:On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway. Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe. When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. Snipe can still be spammed on T3 units at a safe distance. You do not lose the ghosts. They still help out in killing off the T3 of the zerg. But, the terran player might need more than just pure ghosts now. Infestors die outright if you simply insist on using np when the situation does not allow it. It's not the same. What were you doing in between the time he's getting his 5th to 8th gases? If you simply do nothing, of course it's not going to be late late game. He is going to die outright if he makes nothing but mutas earlier on. Terran could never make "pure ghosts" and win against Infestor/BL into Ultra/Ling. No idea where this nonsense came from, but it's completely false. Pure Ghosts + original army is sufficient. That's why this patch is going through. Why else would they be nerfed if they are fine the way they were. So...not pure Ghosts, lol. The reason is obvious: Blizzard is caving to QQ and not testing their changes. I mean going pure ghosts as the counter. I thought it's clear enough. My bad for overestimating. No one openly QQ-ed about ghosts. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Good thing blizzard picked it up though. Sounds like you're pretty open about QQing about it. You can't counter BL/Infestor into Ultra/Ling with just Ghosts. You MUST increase Siege Tank/Marauder production, since Zerg will always outproduce Terran. This isn't hard. Actually, all that I've said so far is that the ghost nerf isn't that bad. I've never claimed that ghosts are OP or anything. Anyway, this is kinda pointless. I'm just here to see the patch notes and I'm not interested in sharing my knowledge with you.. Whatever change that blizzard pushes out, I'll just have to adapt my play. Balance hardly affects me anyway. Cheers.
How is the nerf not that bad? It literally makes Ghosts terrible against everything that isn't a High Templar or Infestor.
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On February 22 2012 02:11 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway. Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game False. A decent number of Mutas (let's say 15+) represents a problem that quickly spirals out of control against Protoss. The trouble is with the style of play that Zergs adopt when playing Mutas. They contain you in your base, force you to waste money on cannons, Templar, and so on, and essentially prevent you from expanding. You will never reliably get past 3 base against a good Muta Zerg unless you open Phoenix. Further, how does the Phoenix buff even help against 30 Mutas in the late game? There's no opportunity to make a Stargate or three and start pumping Phoenixes. It's not like Protoss suddenly receives a fleet of Phoenixes once they reach the mythical "late late game" (whenever that is). And so what if you kill the Mutas? You're still stuck on 3 bases since you couldn't expand until the Mutas were killed. Now a huge force of BL/Infestor/whatever comes at you from the 6base Zerg and you lose. It'd almost be like if Terran had to make BCs to deal with Mutas and there was no other option. They'd get massacred. The reason Mutas can be dealt with by a Terran player (without making Mutas useless) is because Marines are good agaisnt them early, Turrets are good at making the trade not worth it for the Zerg, and Thors do GUARANTEED massive damage to Mutas. Protoss has none of these bonuses. That, right there, is the problem. Stalkers are bad against Mutas in that they can't kill them quickly enough to justify their high cost and supply. Cannons are worse than turrets, require pylons, are more expensive, and can't be repaired. Storm is our Thor equivalent but it can be dodged and against a decent Zerg will never deal more than 20 damage (i.e. 1 tick). Phoenix are okay but can never be massed quickly enough once Spire has been scouted; they also have way less aggressive potential than Mutas, which mop up mineral lines in seconds.
THIS, exactly this, its even very hard to secure a third base on some map.
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Never thought I'd see someone QQ about infestors being too weak. Heh.
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Patch day. Let the good times roll.
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Yeah because of your icon next to your username, idiot.
Its always been an scv.
You have anger issues, you fit the perfect characteristics of a true zerg.
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All these changes are bandaids to cover wounds that require stitches.
Does Blizzard pay any attention to this game at all?
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EPT
